Bowling for Colombine

[JUGGERNAUT]

I've recently seen Moore's movie & apparently Moore believes strongly in the 2nd amendment but as equally strong that there should be a law making it illegal to store loaded guns.

 

Some advocated that the murders were driven by M Manson lyrics. Moore did cover this but he didn't mention the important issue: addiction. He simply covered it in a context in which he implied Clinton's bombings in Kosovo were as much to blame as Manson lyrics. No where in his movie did he ever discuss the estimated time these thugs listened to that music. If he had done that than the argument that the lyrics helped push the thugs in that direction is made a lot stronger. To say they were addicted to the music is an understatement.

 

But this is consistently Moore's way. Blame everything but the culture in America.

When comparing the raw murder statistics in the G7 to that in the US, he never bothered to frame it in a context of metropolitan areas. No Moore would never want to compare Paris to LA. He'd rather compare a nation of 270+ million citizens & some 30 million non citizens to a country that doesn't even compare with the total population of 1 state: NY. Likewise he never once mentioned the impact of organized crime in America vs the other G7 nations. You simply had to see Gangs of NY to understand that a country founded by immigrants is not going to peacefully co-exist. It is the melting-pot characteristic of America that makes it the most violent. Every ethnic group has it's own gang institutions. Moore never bothered to list the estimated numbers of gang members in America. It's in the millions. In fact the estimate dwarfs the entire population of Canada itself. Nor did Moore bother to discuss the prison system in America. There are more inmates in America than most major cities in the G7.

 

What bothers me the most is that America has come a LONG way from the Gangs of NY days. But in the bigger picture it doesn't matter because with new immigrants & more dominant groups the cycle never ends. Organize crime grows proportionately with the influx of immigrants. During the G of NY days it was European ethnic groups that waged war. Now it's asian, russian, hispanic, & every other major immigration group coming to America. Every group has it's good & bad. Moore didn't spend 1 second of film discussing this.

 

The one redeeming value of which I agree with Moore is that the gun industry should be more regulated than it is today. The marketplace is moving in that direction. Guns will soon be designed to work only with the gun owner. This will provide responsible parents an alternative to keeping the guns out of the hands of children.

But for Moore to ignore the culture that is own industry inspires with the fascination of guns in hollywood pictures is hypocrisy. He destroys his own credibility by not attacking all angles of the problem. The truth is that techno-kids will figure out a way to get around any design that prevents their usage of guns. Electronics are always hackable. Without education to change the culture it's an interim solution at best.

[Steff]

I choose...

 

Jugger should be limited to 5 polls a month.

[JUGGERNAUT]

I choose...

 

Jugger should be limited to 5 polls a month. 

Free Speech.

 

I forget to mention the main reasons for the 2nd amendment. There are primarily 3:

1) Protect oneself from crime

2) Protect oneself from tyranny

3) Provide for the national defense

 

The first is obvious. Someone tries to break into your home has a gun so your ability to use a gun equalizes the threat. The assumption is that a criminal with a gun intends to use it. Calling 911 is useless in that scenario.

 

The second one is all about the governments power to enact martial law. The definition of what constitutes an emergency that would suspend government as we know is to loose & open to interpretation. This opens the door to tyranny at the hands of our own government. Nothing curbs tyranny better than an armed citizenry.

 

The final one is probably the most important one & as such has had many books written on it dating back to the history of this country. The regimes of Hitler, Stalin, & Mao Tse Tung have all weighed in on this aspect of America. The consensus was & remains one of containment. The fire-power in possession by America's gangs, militias, national guard, & citizenry make an invasion all but impossible. The loss of life encurred by any power of aggression would weaken it beyond it's ability to sustain itself. I can recommend some books on the subject if you like.

 

Perhaps our greatest freedom though it comes with a great cost of life (11K+ deaths a yr) is also our greatest strength.

[EvilMonkey]

Of those 11,000+ deaths, the ones where it is gangbanger vs gangbanger don't bother me at all. I own a gun (3 to be exact) and have no desire to turn them over to anyone. I have had a gun since i was 10 years old, have been around them since then, and have the utmost respect for guns. I have hunted with rifles and shotguns, done target practice with my handgun, and have shot a few machine guns before. Not the easiest thing to do, and hit your target. Most gun owners wouldn't have a problem with regulation, but they fear that once they give an inch, gun control advocates will take a mile. Ever notice how most gun control advocates (in government) have body guards, or guns themselves? I wonder how many armed people protect the Daley clan, while he screams for guns to be denied to all. You want a gun? Gte a license, but make it harder to get than filling out a form. Pass a firearm safety class, background check, etc. to get a FOID, then leave the people alone.

[israel4ever]

I do not believe in gun control per se.

 

But, I think they need to make it a lot harder to get guns.

 

In Illinois, to get a drivers license, you need to take drivers ed., get a learners permit, then pass a written and a road test. To get a Firearm Owners ID, you need to fill out an application, get it notarized, pay the fee...FOID! So it is a LOT easier to get thana drivers license...that makes no sense!

[BrandoFan]

A gun is the equalizer.

 

Which sucks because if you come at me with a knife or a bat, I'll still kick your ass.

 

With a gun? Not so much.

 

Where's the fairness in that?

[Texsox]

I do not believe in gun control per se.

 

But, I think they need to make it a lot harder to get guns.

 

In Illinois, to get a drivers license, you need to take drivers ed., get a learners permit, then pass a written and a road test. To get a Firearm Owners ID, you need to fill out an application, get it notarized, pay the fee...FOID! So it is a LOT easier to get thana drivers license...that makes no sense!

Even easier in Texas.

 

BTW, Mexico bans firearms. Get cought, go to jail for a long time.

 

For my Illinois FOID I took the scariest picture imaginable and sent it in. Remember the crazed hunter character that Johnny Carson did? The wide open eyes, flannel shirt, etc? I dressed like that, looked like Manson, and received my card in 2 weeks.

[israel4ever]

I had hair past my shoulders, a bushy beard, and a cut-off flannel shirt on my FOID picture.

 

I would have never given me an FOID!

 

No I am licensed to carry on and off duty.