September 27, 200421 yr If Garland is our fifth starter, he wins 16+ games next year. Book it. If he's a 3 or 4, he's back to like now (whatever his record is) - sorry don't have time to look it up. whatever theoretical slot he fills in our rotation has absolutely no bearing on what his record will be.
September 27, 200421 yr whatever theoretical slot he fills in our rotation has absolutely no bearing on what his record will be. Oh, I think it would - assuming pitching staff stays healthy and he consistently is slotted as a #5. It would allow for that one inning brain fart to be covered up a little more often, and he would just rock and roll with the confidence of going out there and knowing that the hitters can overcome that mistake. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy IMO with Mr. Garland. Confidence is powerful.
September 27, 200421 yr whatever theoretical slot he fills in our rotation has absolutely no bearing on what his record will be. And if he wins 16 games, than he will lose 19 or 20. Not a very sound investment for a 5th starter if you ask me.
September 27, 200421 yr Oh, I think it would - assuming pitching staff stays healthy and he consistently is slotted as a #5. It would allow for that one inning brain fart to be covered up a little more often, and he would just rock and roll with the confidence of going out there and knowing that the hitters can overcome that mistake. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy IMO with Mr. Garland. Confidence is powerful. Ah yes, the magical powers of a 5th starter. We all know that no matter what, our 5th starters feel no pressure and only perform to their ability when put in this slot in the rotation. Why didnt we think of this before?????
September 27, 200421 yr This is based on your theory that his 12 major league games is a good measuring stick of what a starter can do throughout his career. I guess that would make sense.....wait no it doesnt. BTW wasting 4 million dollars on a fifth starter is ridiculous. If you dont like Grilli, than maybe the SOX gm can put someone else in there that YOU would feel comfortable with. This is a numbers game, and regardless of our high hopes, we dont have much money. If we are going to lose more that half the games that Garland pitches, why not lose the same amount of games for 3 million less in payroll. Omg i am not going on just his 12 major league starts i am going on his minor league career also. He is not very good in the minor leauges what honestly makes you think he would have an era around 5-5.25 in the majors? Once more his control is terrible, he is basically russ ortiz just not as good. Garland will make 2.5 to 3 million next year that is it. Where do you keep coming up with the 5th starter will cost 4 million bulls***?
September 27, 200421 yr And if he wins 16 games, than he will lose 19 or 20. Not a very sound investment for a 5th starter if you ask me. are you kidding me? The point I'm trying to make is if he gets into that fifth slot, he'll have more confidence. He's not going to lose more then he wins, assuming all else stays the same (no injuries, etc). Where Garland gets in trouble is tough situations. If he can go out there as a fifth starter and gain that confidence, bye-bye Judy, and he becomes that much better and more competetive.
September 27, 200421 yr And if he wins 16 games, than he will lose 19 or 20. Not a very sound investment for a 5th starter if you ask me. If a fifth start went 16 and 18 for you you are in the playoffs without a question.
September 27, 200421 yr Ah yes, the magical powers of a 5th starter. We all know that no matter what, our 5th starters feel no pressure and only perform to their ability when put in this slot in the rotation. Why didnt we think of this before????? Because there is a big difference in the talent level of a John Garland then a Felix Diaz right now - and for that matter a mental confidence, one big inning brain farts included.
September 27, 200421 yr This is based on your theory that his 12 major league games is a good measuring stick of what a starter can do throughout his career. I guess that would make sense.....wait no it doesnt. BTW wasting 4 million dollars on a fifth starter is ridiculous. If you dont like Grilli, than maybe the SOX gm can put someone else in there that YOU would feel comfortable with. This is a numbers game, and regardless of our high hopes, we dont have much money. If we are going to lose more that half the games that Garland pitches, why not lose the same amount of games for 3 million less in payroll. More on why I don't want Grilli as a number 5. http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/teams/player_bio.asp...188&hubname=CHA how about his 6.61 career major league ERA? how about his 5.25 career AAA ERA? how about 2004 being the first year since since 1999 that he has thrown over 100 innings in a whole season? how about 2004 being the 8th year that he has spent time at AAA and he still had an era of 4.83 to show for it? how about him having not one single quality start in his 6 starts with the Sox? how about him having a grand total of one quality starts including his times in the MLs with Florida? I would rather see Diaz for sure over Grilli. Grilli would be more the 5th starter garbage.
September 27, 200421 yr More on why I don't want Grilli as a number 5. http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/teams/player_bio.asp...188&hubname=CHA how about his 6.61 career major league ERA? how about his 5.25 career AAA ERA? how about 2004 being the first year since since 1999 that he has thrown over 100 innings in a whole season? how about 2004 being the 8th year that he has spent time at AAA and he still had an era of 4.83 to show for it? how about him having not one single quality start in his 6 starts with the Sox? how about him having a grand total of one quality starts including his times in the MLs with Florida? I would rather see Diaz for sure over Grilli. Grilli would be more the 5th starter garbage.
September 27, 200421 yr Omg i am not going on just his 12 major league starts i am going on his minor league career also. He is not very good in the minor leauges what honestly makes you think he would have an era around 5-5.25 in the majors? Once more his control is terrible, he is basically russ ortiz just not as good. Garland will make 2.5 to 3 million next year that is it. Where do you keep coming up with the 5th starter will cost 4 million bulls***? Minor league career=terrible argument. See: Joe Crede MVP thanks And we wont be in the playoffs if we pay our 5th starter 3 million like querty says is the definite salary. Cause we wont have any money for any other position
September 27, 200421 yr More on why I don't want Grilli as a number 5. http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/teams/player_bio.asp...188&hubname=CHA how about his 6.61 career major league ERA? how about his 5.25 career AAA ERA? how about 2004 being the first year since since 1999 that he has thrown over 100 innings in a whole season? how about 2004 being the 8th year that he has spent time at AAA and he still had an era of 4.83 to show for it? how about him having not one single quality start in his 6 starts with the Sox? how about him having a grand total of one quality starts including his times in the MLs with Florida? I would rather see Diaz for sure over Grilli. Grilli would be more the 5th starter garbage. All im saying is anyone making the same money he makes would be fine with me. if we are paying that much for a 5th starter with "potential" then we can free up money for the other gaping holes in the lineup
September 27, 200421 yr are you kidding me? The point I'm trying to make is if he gets into that fifth slot, he'll have more confidence. He's not going to lose more then he wins, assuming all else stays the same (no injuries, etc). Where Garland gets in trouble is tough situations. If he can go out there as a fifth starter and gain that confidence, bye-bye Judy, and he becomes that much better and more competetive. Once again, see what this 5th starter "confidence" has done for our 5th starters in the past. Talent means nothing if you cant produce. -Joe Borchard
September 27, 200421 yr grilli's been hurt for most of his career, but i agree the odds of him amounting to anything are pretty slim.
September 27, 200421 yr Minor league career=terrible argument. See: Joe Crede MVP thanks And we wont be in the playoffs if we pay our 5th starter 3 million like querty says is the definite salary. Cause we wont have any money for any other position Tell me how many minor leaguers have had terrible minor league careers then went on to have a succesful careers in the majors.
September 27, 200421 yr All im saying is anyone making the same money he makes would be fine with me. if we are paying that much for a 5th starter with "potential" then we can free up money for the other gaping holes in the lineup What bigger hole have the Sox had for years than their 5th starter?
September 27, 200421 yr Tell me how many minor leaguers have had terrible minor league careers then went on to have a succesful careers in the majors. Argument=gasping for air
September 27, 200421 yr What bigger hole have the Sox had for years than their 5th starter? After this season??? SS, RF, 2B, 3B Everyday players play everyday
September 27, 200421 yr Argument=gasping for air Not really. You just assume that grilli can become the 5th starter after being bad in the minors. It just does not happen that a pitcher sucks in the minors and is decent in the majors. There is no reason to believe girlli will not get rocked up here and you are yet to give a reason why you think he can do a good job as the fifth starter. What i do not understand no one else agrees with you, why don't you understand it is a bad idea and move on with it?
September 27, 200421 yr Kevin Brown's first 4 full years. Year Ag Tm Lg W L G GS GF CG SHO SV IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP WP WHIP ERA 1989 24 TEX AL 12 9 28 28 0 7 0 0 191.0 167 81 71 10 70 104 4 7 1.24 3.35 1990 25 TEX AL 12 10 26 26 0 6 2 0 180.0 175 84 72 13 60 88 3 9 1.31 3.60 1991 26 TEX AL 9 12 33 33 0 0 0 0 210.7 233 116 103 17 90 96 13 12 1.53 4.40 1992 27 TEX AL 21 11 35 35 0 11 1 0 265.7 262 117 98 11 76 173 10 8 1.27 3.32 Judy Garland's first 4 full years. Year Ag Tm Lg W L G GS GF CG SHO SV IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP WP WHIP ERA 2001 21 CHW AL 6 7 35 16 8 0 0 1 117.0 123 59 48 16 55 61 4 3 1.52 3.69 2002 22 CHW AL 12 12 33 33 0 1 1 0 192.7 188 109 98 23 83 112 9 5 1.41 4.58 2003 23 CHW AL 12 13 32 32 0 0 0 0 191.7 188 103 96 28 74 108 4 8 1.37 4.51 2004 24 CHW AL 11 11 33 32 0 0 1 0 211.0 218 123 116 34 73 110 2 3 1.38 4.95 Like I said, Garland has shown no signs of improving and it nowhere close to being an 18 game winner like Hawk predicted he would be this year. Kevin Brown won 21 games in his fourth full year with a team that went 77-85. He had 27.3% of their wins in 1992, does anyone actually think Garland will ever accomplish something like that?
September 27, 200421 yr After this season??? SS, RF, 2B, 3B Everyday players play everyday He asked what holes have they had in previous years. Meaning the last several.
September 27, 200421 yr wow. You just don't get it. Let me ask it another way. Would you rather have a major league pitcher that has been there in the last four years which would solidify your starting pitching from top to bottom or a washed up reject or brand new kid coming up from the minors as your fifth starter every fifth day? Any questions? Edited September 27, 200421 yr by kapkomet
September 27, 200421 yr He asked what holes have they had in previous years. Meaning the last several. Does it really matter what holes they had in 2001?? or what we have next year???
September 27, 200421 yr Does it really matter what holes they had in 2001?? or what we have next year??? Yes it does because he was getting to the fact that we have had no bigger holes than pitching.
September 27, 200421 yr wow. You just don't get it. Let me ask it another way. Would you rather have a major league pitcher that has been there in the last four years which would solidify your starting pitching from top to bottom or a washed up reject or brand new kid coming up from the minors as your fifth starter every fifth day? Any questions? Wow, you dont get it. If we could, that would be an ideal situation, if Jon would be the 5th starter. Unfortunatley we have to come to terms that if we want to fill our gaps with a top of the line starter and some good infielders, which we are going to need dearly. Then we dont have the cash to pay that much to someone who is going to be a 5th starter, especially when his record isnt that great anyway. If we want our 1-5 starters to be the best since the early 90's then we are going to have to cut some cost where we can, and that is going to be trimming the salary of our 5th starter. As much as it would look great with Jon in that spot considering his experience and his potential, his salary makes that a big stretch. And we dont have to bring a kid up from the minors, this is why they did that this season by bringing up Diaz, Grilli, and pitching Neal a ton. Because eventually they could have the experience to make a run at a lower cost 5th starter Does that make more sense
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