WHarris1 Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Range is very misleading, it more is relative to who your pitchers are. I have never heard of zone factor though What does range have to do with pitchers? Please elaborate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 What does range have to do with pitchers? Please elaborate. I have to believe he is referring to the fact that some teams have pitchers who are more ground ball oriented while others are more flyball oriented. His argument makes no sense here, however. The White Sox pitching staff is pretty much a ground ball staff. To think that Carlos Lee's range factor is swayed by the pitching staff is wrong. Add to that the fact that almost any flyball hit to LF can go out on any given day due to the airflow in there, and it makes it even harder for Carlos's numbers to be swayed. Carlos is probably the most underrated player on the team. It would be a damn shame to see him go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 3 years ago, Carlos was terrible in LF. Some people cannot grasp the fact that Lee is a very solid defensive LF now. He also gets bashed for his baserunning, yet when he makes a mistake it's usually due to aggresiveness when the team is in the doldrums it seems to fall into at some point every year. Lee has also been bashed for swinging for the fences. When did he start doing that in '04? After Frank and Maggs went down and the Sox needed him to supply some more power. I totally agree with those that say Carlos Lee is generally underappreciated by Sox fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 I think CLee is one of those guys people love to bash, until he leaves the Sox. Then I think it will become obvious how much CLee meant to this team. I for one don't want to see him go, but I also have no idea as to what the solution is at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 I would much rather deal Konerko if we had to choose between one. Carlos has more speed and is more agressive which seems to fit with the team better. His defense is underrated or over analyzed as he is only a LF. We may even be able to move him to 1B if one of our kids are ready to move into the OF. I would much rather keep Carlos and trade Paulie while Paulie's value seems to be at its peak. That is if we can choose one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 That is if we can choose one. That is the key. Given the choice, I trade PK in a f***ing heartbeat over Lee. Konerko has peaked...I'm quite sure of that. Lee has not...Lee's numbers continue to improve and his defense continues to get better. Lee > Konerko...simple as that. People need to realize that that is the exact same thing other teams are looking at and realize too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 I think Konerko has a peak trade value right now. Evereyone wanted to give him away last year when his trade value was at an all time low and I was screaming no. Now is the time to move PK if the right deal comes along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 I didnt watch sox games??? I went to 40 games at comiskey and saw about 110 on television. I saw almost all of the whitesox games and am very critical(unlike the terrible announcer-HAWK) He had no errors because he didnt muff any balls or made any bad throws. Althoguh, there were a countless # of plays that he didnt get a good read and the ball dropped in front of him or it went over him. Has he made progress since his first year in leftfield? Oh yeah, he has made a lot of progress and has shown an amazing amount of improvement although he still is a liability in left field. wow you must be an expert. The family that sat next to me in my season ticket package went to almost as many games as I did. But at the end of the season she was still having problems with the stealing rule. Guess going to games makes you an expert huh........Liability=errors Letting balls drop is alot better than missing balls, missing the cutoff man, taking bad routes to balls, and throwing out more runners than a majority of other players with the same offensive numbers doesnt look so bad to me..Guess we should sign Taguchi because of his prowess in left field, and forget about the other facets of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Of Love Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 And as for the posts that insinuate he doesn't have heart and isn't a grinder, I don't think it's true. Of everyone on the team, he the one seems to go on in hardest to break up double plays, he's obviously worked hard on his defense, and despite some mental lapses he seems to me to care about the games (he's the one who reminded Manuel to pinch-run in one of the games in MN). I couldn't agree more. No one on the Sox goes into 2nd as hard as C Lee does. I was surprised Lee didn't steal more bases this year - he led the team in '03 and for whatever reason, he didn't even try to steal all that much this year. Late in the season at KC, a Sox batter flied out to right and Lee moved from 1st to 2nd on the fly....I remember it surprised the hell out of the Royals and Hawk & DJ too. Don't tell me this guy isn't a grinder or a balls-to-the walls baseball player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 although he still is a liability in left field. Wow...... :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted November 3, 2004 Author Share Posted November 3, 2004 I don't think he ran as much because his role changed. 2 years ago he was hitting 2nd or down in the order wheras this year he hit a good amount of 3-4-5. He can run more if he needs to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 I don't think he ran as much because his role changed. 2 years ago he was hitting 2nd or down in the order wheras this year he hit a good amount of 3-4-5. He can run more if he needs to. His running was largely selfish. He wanted to reach 20/20(which he failed to reach, as he did in 2001). This is the complaint with Carlos. There is no doubt in my mind that if he wanted to he could steal 25 bags a year. There is no doubt in my mind that if he wanted to he could have an OBP above .375. Carlos has a ton of talent. He is able to do so many things well, as evidenced by his singles laden 28 game hit streak, or his 13 HR(1.134OPS) July just after Maggs and frank went down, or his .407 OBP after the ASB in '02 when JM was in his ear before every AB telling him to be more patient, or his vastly improved defense. Carlos has a hard time staying focused. He wants to be considered a GG outfielder. He's taken pride in the effort that he's put in there. Sooner or later he'll get caught up in another aspect of his game (maybe the longball) and his defense and other areas will suffer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 His running was largely selfish. He wanted to reach 20/20(which he failed to reach, as he did in 2001). This is the complaint with Carlos. There is no doubt in my mind that if he wanted to he could steal 25 bags a year. There is no doubt in my mind that if he wanted to he could have an OBP above .375. Carlos has a ton of talent. He is able to do so many things well, as evidenced by his singles laden 28 game hit streak, or his 13 HR(1.134OPS) July just after Maggs and frank went down, or his .407 OBP after the ASB in '02 when JM was in his ear before every AB telling him to be more patient, or his vastly improved defense. Carlos has a hard time staying focused. He wants to be considered a GG outfielder. He's taken pride in the effort that he's put in there. Sooner or later he'll get caught up in another aspect of his game (maybe the longball) and his defense and other areas will suffer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 His running was largely selfish. He wanted to reach 20/20(which he failed to reach, as he did in 2001). This is the complaint with Carlos. There is no doubt in my mind that if he wanted to he could steal 25 bags a year. There is no doubt in my mind that if he wanted to he could have an OBP above .375. Carlos has a ton of talent. He is able to do so many things well, as evidenced by his singles laden 28 game hit streak, or his 13 HR(1.134OPS) July just after Maggs and frank went down, or his .407 OBP after the ASB in '02 when JM was in his ear before every AB telling him to be more patient, or his vastly improved defense. Carlos has a hard time staying focused. He wants to be considered a GG outfielder. He's taken pride in the effort that he's put in there. Sooner or later he'll get caught up in another aspect of his game (maybe the longball) and his defense and other areas will suffer. It sounds to me that Carlos trying to be more of the type of player the team needs at a particular time than being selfish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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