Soxfest Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 The pitching is good , the hitting will come around, but Sox are already 0-5 in games they make an error. Sox are NOT good enough to give the Tigers or anyone else 4 outs in an inning, defense is going to have to improve or it is going to be a long season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 I agree 100%. The defense has to sure up! I trust my Sox and I KNOW they will turn it around! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 I got to say so far the defense has been better then the Sox teams I've seen on the field the past 4 or 5 years. That doesn't say much, but I have liked what I've seen, especially from our catchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 I got to say so far the defense has been better then the Sox teams I've seen on the field the past 4 or 5 years. That doesn't say much, but I have liked what I've seen, especially from our catchers. If I am remembering right we have thrown out 4 or 5 guys trying to steal already this year??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 I got to say so far the defense has been better then the Sox teams I've seen on the field the past 4 or 5 years. That doesn't say much, but I have liked what I've seen, especially from our catchers. If I am remembering right we have thrown out 4 or 5 guys trying to steal already this year??? that one was josh paul with a bad throw teams learned no to run a olivo already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulokis Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 Thats a good observation. Its hard to see an out turn out to be a run. That has been the case so far and definitely defense has to improve. Â Olivo has not had his groove on the plate but damn he got a canon of an arm. I saw the game against detroit. He threw out Kingsale and not even getting a quick release but very accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 I looked it up and opposing teams have only 4 SB vs 4 CS. Â I couldn't find a breakdown of which catchers were reponsible for what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulokis Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 I looked it up and opposing teams have only 4 SB vs 4 CS.  I couldn't find a breakdown of which catchers were reponsible for what. If I remember it correctly, olivo has thrown up 2-3 runners and sandy threw 1 out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 I looked it up and opposing teams have only 4 SB vs 4 CS.  I couldn't find a breakdown of which catchers were reponsible for what. If I remember it correctly, olivo has thrown up 2-3 runners and sandy threw 1 out. I remember Josh threw out a runner. At the time, the announcers mentioned that every Sox catcher had a CS already this season. So I think the breakdown for Miguel, Sandy, and Josh is 2, 1, and 1 CS, respectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wsc425 Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Our defense has been good this year. That is IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 I think it has been good as well. We have thrown guys out at the plate, pretty much shut down the running game and limited our mistakes. Carlos has been fine in left field, Maggs has been awesome in right and Rowand has been solid in center. Jimenez struggled early defensively but has looked very smooth lately and Jose hasn't been quite as Jose like. Â Jose is still chasing every freaking curveball he ever sees though. I will never understand why a pitcher throws him anything but a big hanging curve down the tube the drops in the dirt. He will swing at it 99% of the time and will never get a hit from it unless he's completely lucky and gets a swinging bunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 I looked it up and opposing teams have only 4 SB vs 4 CS.  I couldn't find a breakdown of which catchers were reponsible for what. If I remember it correctly, olivo has thrown up 2-3 runners and sandy threw 1 out. I remember Josh threw out a runner. At the time, the announcers mentioned that every Sox catcher had a CS already this season. So I think the breakdown for Miguel, Sandy, and Josh is 2, 1, and 1 CS, respectively. The CS with JP catching was on a pitch-out in Cleveland where the base-runner, noticing the pitch-out was on, attempted to return to first base after JP threw the ball to Valentin or Graffy..... I don't remember who was playing SS that game. Whoever it was threw a strike to Konerko to still get the out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wsc425 Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Sox Defense Grades Paul Konerko, Brian Daubach-C+ D'Angelo Jimenez-B+ Jose Valentin-A- Joe Crede-A+ Miguel Olivo, Sandy Alomar-A- Carlos Lee-B- Aaron Rowand, Armando Rios-B+ Magglio Ordonez-A+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Joe Crede-A+ He's on pace for 40 errors. A+? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Joe Crede-A+ He's on pace for 40 errors. A+? oh? what are the stats? Â and was that early games and he is settling down, one bad game which throws his stats and projections off, or do we see a continuing pattern? Â I am asking to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 oh? what are the stats? and was that early games and he is settling down, one bad game which throws his stats and projections off, or do we see a continuing pattern?  I am asking to learn. Yeah, he's made 3 errors in 12 games. That projects to just over 40. I'm sure, though, that he will settle down (as you said). At least I hope so!  And ya know, I don't know when they occured...lemmie try to find out...  His 1st error came in Game #1 (@ KC) His 2nd error came in Game #3 (@ KC) And finally, his 3rd error came in Game #8 (@ Cleveland)  So for the most part, his errors came early in the season.  BTW, doing that "finding out" with dial-up took a long time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 If you look, I think the majority of his errors will be throwing and it will be so throughout his career, because his arm seems irradict. Crede is very talented defensively and is a future gold glover, but the one thing that always worries me is how erradict his throwing mechanics are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 thanks CLuger for the research!!!!! and get a cable connection - this si the 21st century! Â Â I think like Jason that we will be siing a few Crede Gold Gloves. Perhaps with Olvio too as the word on him is spreading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 thanks CLuger for the research!!!!! and get a cable connection - this si the 21st century!   I think like Jason that we will be siing a few Crede Gold Gloves. Perhaps with Olvio too as the word on him is spreading. The only way Olivo doesn't win gold gloves is if he can't hit well enough to stay in the majors, otherwise he is destined to be the next shutdown catcher in the AL, now that Rodriguez is gone.  Bengie Molina is susceptible because he doesn't block the plate properly. Molina does way too many glove stabs instead of positioning his body in front of the ball in order to keep it in front of you. Alomar made that mistake in todays game on the wild pitched (or did they rule it a passed ball?).  A Ball should almost never get passed the catcher if they are always moving in front of the ball and positioning themselves so it bounces infront of them. Now ocassionally a pitchers throws such a pitch that you can't get in front of it, or it can take some odd hops. Of course all catchers make mistakes. Olivo has a cannon though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 I think we are seeing something very special in Olvio. And I am even thinking that his hitting will pick up - maybe not Fiskian numbers, but I see something in him that says he will not be as woeful at the plate as we feared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 We could most definately have the next Tony Pena....I think that is the most intelligent thing Peter Gammons has said in his lifetime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 We could most definately have the next Tony Pena....I think that is the most intelligent thing Peter Gammons has said in his lifetime. That's not saying much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 We could most definately have the next Tony Pena....I think that is the most intelligent thing Peter Gammons has said in his lifetime. That's not saying much. I'm talking about in his prime....in his prime, Tony Pena was a .280 15 70 15 type of guy....with a good arm and a good glove behind the plate. Â I'm not talking about the 1990s version of Tony Pena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wsc425 Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Joe Crede-A+ He's on pace for 40 errors. A+? oh? what are the stats? Â and was that early games and he is settling down, one bad game which throws his stats and projections off, or do we see a continuing pattern? Â I am asking to learn. I believe that he has potential. He has surprised me. I believe due to scouting reports that he is on pace for a wonderful season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 jose has 3 errors to his credits too. and that is in 10 less innings than crede has clocked.........one of them probably should have been joined with jimenez ......but........hes got 1 of his own.. so does graff ( at ss).. no one else though........but not only are errors going to kill us but leaving guys stranded is gonna make us die if we cant get that figured out soon... does anyone realize that we left 31 guys stranded this weekend????? 31 !!!! thats insane............and should not have happened.............we have got to get our collective s*** together or were gonna end up loosing alot of games to the better teams by beating ourselves at our own game................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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