kevin57 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 QUOTE(Wong & Owens @ Jan 13, 2006 -> 09:26 AM) Again, I would disagree. There is nothing close to a consensus of archaeologists who claim to have found enough evidence to say that Jesus existed. They haven't said he didn't either, to be fair. I would like to see some type of comparison of the amount of evidence that we have for Caesar. and the amount we have for Jesus. I don't believe the piles would be the same size at all, but I'm open to hearing an argument on this. We'll have to agree to disagree It isn't always a question of "quantity" of evidence, rather "quality." Read the Jewish historian Josephus, who lived around the year 100, or the Roman historian Tacitus for a description of the early Christian Church. As far as archaeologists and Jesus, I would agree that with him personally, they haven't found much evidence, but many of the "myths" of the Old Testament have been shown to be at least credible. Heck, in 2000 years, there may be skeptics who doubt the veracity of the White Sox winning the WS in 2005. All depends how high you want to set the bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 (edited) OK, for sake of arguement, let's say God doesn't exist, Jesus never walked the earth and religion is a cult led by a bunch of brainwashers. Now, what are some of the things, measly little me would not have done: I would not have given money to the church each week, which is used to help numerous people in need. - Sorry, you won't have heat this winter, but at least I'm not being brainwashed anymore. I would not donate food to the church food drive each month. - Sorry, you'll be hungry this Thanksgiving, but now I have a mind of my own. I would not have taken two tags from the church "giving tree" - Sorry little kiddies, your Christmas will not be rememberable. Hey, Anthraxfan has made me see the light! I would not have, through the Knights of Columbus, held multiple dinners for victims of an apartment fire in our town (Only one family was Catholic, mind you) - Sorry, I know you've lost everything, but now you're going to be hungry too. Get off my lawn, you homeless people! Yep, religion really sucks! I'm going to save a lot of money and time! Thanks, Anthrax! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I said God never existed.. I never said Jesus never walked the earth, I said that Christian and Jewish Dogma got the message and story wrong. They only tell his story to about a 25% facts with using other stories from other cultrues to fill in what they want you to know. I know this is all hard to digest, we have become a society co-depended on Religions and Cults to give us meaning in our lives. They have scared us into beleiving that they do exist.. And this is more or less a grandfather claus. Up until about 150-160 Years ago people like us.. The commoners did not know how to read or write it was only the nobles that were able to do this.. So these nobles in both Church and Governement told commoners that we should act a certain way becuase the book told you to.. And scared these commoners that Hell was this horriable place.Over the years because of this men have gone on wars.. What we are in now is a perfect example of this being done. It's also hard for most to realize becuase of this that Man created God to give their lives meaning, for life without meaning it seems pretty bleak. Men/Women must have meaning in ones life to feel needed (I don't know if that is the right word) So they fake themselves into this notion of God. With it they can at least have a false sense of security. How many people do you think can handle the truth of life? Not many as seen in this thread. As for your comments on giving money and helping the poor.. Again I quote Socrates.." He who knows right will do right".. You do know that the reason this is no equal rights for man and women stems from Religion right? Well sort of.. Again this is another idea they stole from another culture... But, Religion is the one that has made the most with it. I will wait for your repsonse with this.. Eliminating religion will eliminate war. Edited January 13, 2006 by AnthraxFan93 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 we have become a society co-depended on Religions and Cults to give us meaning in our lives. no we haven't, that was the original point of this thread. Church populations are down because people are looking to other things to bring "meaning"... side note: when people realize that thost alternatives will find them nothing, I think it's really important for churches to equip themselves and ready themselves to meet those people where they're at. I don't believe we know how to do that yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 QUOTE(AnthraxFan93 @ Jan 13, 2006 -> 09:15 AM) I said God never existed.. I never said Jesus never walked the earth, I said that Christian and Jewish Dogma got the message and story wrong. They only tell his story to about a 25% facts with using other stories from other cultrues to fill in what they want you to know. I know this is all hard to digest, we have become a society co-depended on Religions and Cults to give us meaning in our lives. They have scared us into beleiving that they do exist.. And this is more or less a grandfather claus. Up until about 150-160 Years ago people like us.. The commoners did not know how to read or write it was only the nobles that were able to do this.. So these nobles in both Church and Governement told commoners that we should act a certain way becuase the book told you to.. And scared these commoners that Hell was this horriable place.Over the years because of this men have gone on wars.. What we are in now is a perfect example of this being done. It's also hard for most to realize becuase of this that Man created God to give their lives meaning, for life without meaning it seems pretty bleak. Men/Women must have meaning in ones life to feel needed (I don't know if that is the right word) So they fake themselves into this notion of God. With it they can at least have a false sense of security. How many people do you think can handle the truth of life? Not many as seen in this thread. As for your comments on giving money and helping the poor.. Again I quote Socrates.." He who knows right will do right".. You do know that the reason this is no equal rights for man and women stems from Religion right? Well sort of.. Again this is another idea they stole from another culture... But, Religion is the one that has made the most with it. I will wait for your repsonse with this.. Eliminating religion will eliminate war. Who cares who made it? What matters is where I learned it from. I learned it from religion. But, it's just a cult and I've finally seen the light. I can go around and be an asshole with no recourse. Man, this three day weekend is going to be fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 I can't believe you are still persisting in this arguement after having been repeated shown that your logic is empty. Before anyone responds to any of your continued baiting, I want to see some actual proof of the statments that you are making. Your whole thing is that faith is worthless and logic is all that matters. You keep making statements based on this so-called logic, but have provided zero factual basis to back up anything you have said. Until you provide some real proof, and not some cute snotty remark to piss everyone off, I am calling bulls***. Yes, I am calling you to the matt right here in front of everyone. Put up or shut up. No more innuendo and rhetoric. Post facts, names, links, anything you need to do so. Until then, quit wasting everyone's time with your lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 QUOTE(kevin57 @ Jan 13, 2006 -> 09:49 AM) It isn't always a question of "quantity" of evidence, rather "quality." Read the Jewish historian Josephus, who lived around the year 100, or the Roman historian Tacitus for a description of the early Christian Church. Those were exactly who I was thinking of when you first mentioned it, and from things I've read, there are many, many scholars out there who question the veracity of those writings. I could go into all the problems they have with agreeing on what exactly Tacitus was writing about when he touches on the christianity issue(was we documenting actual events? or was he writing down simply what christians told them they believed? none of the people Tacitus would have talked to would have been alive when JEsus would have been, IIRC), but it's not a debate that would really go anywhere-- it would simply come down to what you believe or don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 QUOTE(AnthraxFan93 @ Jan 13, 2006 -> 03:15 PM) Eliminating religion will eliminate war. No it won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Who cares who made it? What matters is where I learned it from. I learned it from religion. But, it's just a cult and I've finally seen the light. I can go around and be an asshole with no recourse. Man, this three day weekend is going to be fun! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I care, why wouldn't you? To know that what you are being taught is only about 25% true.. As much as it seems I act like an ass.. Its more of your intial reaction to being told that everything you think is real and true.. Is nothing but a lie, its hard to tell you that in a "nice" way. Its a natural human defense system.. Nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 many scholars out there who question the veracity of those writings. we've touched on this before, but people make their living trying to disprove things all the time. none of the people Tacitus would have talked to would have been alive when JEsus would have been, IIRC interesting enough of a point, but culturally and logistically there was an emphasis on word of mouth accuracy and the use of scribes 2000 years ago that doesn't exist today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 No it won't. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah it will, Religion is the main cause of the majority of the wars through-out history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 To know that what you are being taught is only about 25% true.. where does one find a statistic like that??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 QUOTE(AnthraxFan93 @ Jan 13, 2006 -> 09:29 AM) Yeah it will, Religion is the main cause of the majority of the wars through-out history. I'm confident that people would find a reason... by your logic: in the beginning man felt meaningless. Man creates religion and "god" to bring meaning to his life. Man spends centuries at war. In hindsight man blames religion on those wars. In the end, what was at the core of man, was not religion, but war and conflict. Man=War, not religion=war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Jan 11, 2006 -> 02:11 PM) I need some advice. Where can I buy something for a 3 week old fetus? None of the stores seem to have that size. MFSASOB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 QUOTE(sox4lifeinPA @ Jan 13, 2006 -> 10:33 AM) by your logic: in the beginning man felt meaningless. Man creates religion and "god" to bring meaning to his life. Man spends centuries at war. In hindsight man blames religion on those wars. In the end, what was at the core of man, was not religion, but war and conflict. Man=War, not religion=war. Nicely put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 QUOTE(Steff @ Jan 13, 2006 -> 10:34 AM) MFSASOB. Translation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 QUOTE(AnthraxFan93 @ Jan 13, 2006 -> 09:28 AM) I care, why wouldn't you? To know that what you are being taught is only about 25% true.. As much as it seems I act like an ass.. Its more of your intial reaction to being told that everything you think is real and true.. Is nothing but a lie, its hard to tell you that in a "nice" way. Its a natural human defense system.. Nothing more. What are you talking about? I agree with you. You're right. Everything I've been taught has been bulls***. I realize now that I've been brainwashed. It's still hard to figure out how, since I didn't grow up in religious household, didn't got to church as a youth and just became Catholic 3+ years ago, but hey, I see the truth now. I'm glad I didn't waste too much time living a moral life and helping others. Whew! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Jan 13, 2006 -> 11:36 AM) Translation? You're an insenstive asshole? (my words not Steff's) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 QUOTE(Soxy @ Jan 13, 2006 -> 10:42 AM) You're an insenstive asshole? (my words not Steff's) To each their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Is "f*** off asshole" a banable offense...?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 I can't believe you are still persisting in this arguement after having been repeated shown that your logic is empty. Before anyone responds to any of your continued baiting, I want to see some actual proof of the statments that you are making. Your whole thing is that faith is worthless and logic is all that matters. You keep making statements based on this so-called logic, but have provided zero factual basis to back up anything you have said. Until you provide some real proof, and not some cute snotty remark to piss everyone off, I am calling bulls***. Yes, I am calling you to the matt right here in front of everyone. Put up or shut up. No more innuendo and rhetoric. Post facts, names, links, anything you need to do so. Until then, quit wasting everyone's time with your lies. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I posted a link which got ignored, on the truth of the bible for starters.. Alot of what I have read on the subject are in books, last time I checked I can post links to my library.. I can post names but again this would you to actually read their matterial. Which I take you would not do. For Starters Socrates, Plato,Aristotle, Spinoza, Hell even laerning the true message of Jesus. .Not found in the bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 QUOTE(Steff @ Jan 13, 2006 -> 10:44 AM) Is "f*** off asshole" a banable offense...?? Wow. Such strong words by the old lady. Have trouble sleeping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(AnthraxFan93 @ Jan 13, 2006 -> 11:44 AM) I posted a link which got ignored, on the truth of the bible for starters.. Alot of what I have read on the subject are in books, last time I checked I can post links to my library.. I can post names but again this would you to actually read their matterial. Which I take you would not do. For Starters Socrates, Plato,Aristotle, Spinoza, Hell even laerning the true message of Jesus. .Not found in the bible. Look, hmmmm, who am I going to take advice on the historical bible from? You, who doesn't even know that "a lot" is two words or my PhD professor that I took a class from all about the historical Jesus. Have you read the bible? Have you read anything written by people who specialize in historical aspects of the bible? Or do you only read stuff by atheists with an axe to grind? Edited January 13, 2006 by Soxy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Jan 13, 2006 -> 09:45 AM) Wow. Such strong words by the old lady. Have trouble sleeping? Actually yes.. I have had some trouble sleeping since Joey passed away. However that really didn't have any effect on immediately seeing your words for what they are and calling them out. Yes.. the "old lady" is back.. and I promise you.. will be a bigger b**** then ever before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Jan 13, 2006 -> 11:45 AM) Wow. Such strong words by the old lady. Have trouble sleeping? You need to shut the f*** up right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Jan 13, 2006 -> 11:45 AM) Wow. Such strong words by the old lady. Have trouble sleeping? And for the record, jackass--you're less than a year younger than she is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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