Kap, I agree with you 100%. I just don't necessarily know that deportation is the answer to hold the people who have illegally crossed over accountable. There is nothing saying that they have to be sent back. And trying to send back 12 million people would be well, difficult to say the least.

 

I'm all for fixing our broken immigration laws that punish the immigrant and ignores the people bringing them in when it should be punishing them both.

 

Set up a from this day forward on proposition. You hire illegals: we shut you down. You come over illegally: You get sent back. I'm all for that kind of policy. But the question remains... what to do with the millions here? I don't support a blanket amnesty with no penalty. There should be SOME penalty for breaking the law. But there should also be some venue for these illegal residents to get the legal ability to stay here - be it applying for a green card and paying a fine of several hundred to a couple thousand dollars, or requiring 500 hours community service, or something else that allows these people to be put on a path to contribute to our society in a positive way.

 

This is a situation where we can have our cake and eat it too. This is a situation where we can create laws that work and at the same time hold those who took advantage of a bad situation responsible. But both sides have to budge from their positions. Both the asshole minutemen and the asshole immigrants rights people.

 

Yes, I agree. /faints

 

 

The hardcore positions will not fix the problem. That's for sure. But, there MUST be a hard stance taken to send the right message, both to the people who hire illegals and to the illegals themselves.

Yes, I agree.  /faints

 

 

The hardcore positions will not fix the problem.  That's for sure.  But, there MUST be a hard stance taken to send the right message, both to the people who hire illegals and to the illegals themselves.

 

Do I hear the idea of a Soxtalk PAC? Let's get a few billion dollars together and start making some campaign contributions

There was a poll somewhere that had a fake "independant" candidate taking basically the stance that has been outlined in the last couple of posts, and they blew away a Republican and Democratic candidate if the election were held on this issue.

 

Maybe I should run for congress.

 

Interesting graph I found in the Sunday Trib... It seems that of the estimated 11-12 million illegal aliens in this country, only about 7.2 million are actually working. Does this mean we are planing on deporting 4-5 million people even with the guest worker program? Would that fact change people's opinions one way or another on the program?

Would that fact change people's opinions one way or another on the program?

 

Probably not. It's definitely apparent that "we need to help these poor, HARD-WORKING, unfortunate souls". :rolly

 

BTW, gee, my trash is getting picked up this morning. And here all this time I just thought it was people who wouldn't want these jobs. What was I thinking?

 

And I also find it hilarious all these stores that are closing around here today... they had "extended hours" Saturday and yesterday and they will tomorrow as well. Economic impact my ass. Again, :rolly

Probably not.  It's definitely apparent that "we need to help these poor, HARD-WORKING, unfortunate souls".  :rolly

 

BTW, gee, my trash is getting picked up this morning.  And here all this time I just thought it was people who wouldn't want these jobs.  What was I thinking?

 

And I also find it hilarious all these stores that are closing around here today... they had "extended hours" Saturday and yesterday and they will tomorrow as well.  Economic impact my ass.  Again, :rolly

 

There are people willing to take these jobs, for the most part, they just aren't born in America. But with some changes to our eduction system, I am certain we can produce more garbage collectors.

There are people willing to take these jobs, for the most part, they just aren't born in America. But with some changes to our eduction system, I am certain we can produce more garbage collectors.

Way to twist my point, as always. :headshake

Way to twist my point, as always.  :headshake

 

Your point was there are people willing to pick up your garbage. I agreed and pointed out we could, if we set our minds to it, have Americans doing those jobs. In fact, if we make it a National Priority we could probably have all these jobs covered, imagine . . .

 

George W. Bush, "Tonight, I come before the American peoples and propose a bold initiative that will change American for future generations. It is my goal, by the end of this decade, to raise 12,000,000 custodians, yard workers, busboys, farm workers, and similar careers to stop the practice of immigrants taking these jobs. It will take a fundemental attitude change on the part of Americans everywhere. The American dream should be, after 12 years of our education system, our nation's children should be prepared for a minimum wage life, toiling and giving an honest day's work for an honest day's pay. Our nation's security depends on it. We can not have immigrants sneaking into this country to take these jobs. It is a small step from sneaking illegally into this country, to masterminding the bombing of a federal building, releasing posion gas on our subways, or other acts of terrorism . . ."

 

Don't get your depends in a bunch, I'm joking.

Your point was there are people willing to pick up your garbage. I agreed and pointed out we could, if we set our minds to it, have Americans doing those jobs. In fact, if we make it a National Priority we could probably have all these jobs covered, imagine . . .

 

George W. Bush, "Tonight, I come before the American peoples and propose a bold initiative that will change American for future generations. It is my goal, by the end of this decade, to raise 12,000,000 custodians, yard workers, busboys, farm workers, and similar careers to stop the practice of immigrants taking these jobs. It will take a fundemental attitude change on the part of Americans everywhere. The American dream should be, after 12 years of our education system, our nation's children should be prepared for a minimum wage life, toiling and giving an honest day's work for an honest day's pay. Our nation's security depends on it. We can not have immigrants sneaking into this country to take these jobs. It is a small step from sneaking illegally into this country, to masterminding the bombing of a federal building, releasing posion gas on our subways, or other acts of terrorism . . ."   

 

Don't get  your depends in a bunch, I'm joking.

 

MY depends are dry, what about YOURS?

MY depends are dry, what about YOURS?

 

I go with the cheaper generics unless I'm out drinking, then I need the extra security and capacity of depends

If we had 12% unemployment, widespread terrorist attacks by Mexican illegals, etc. I could see getting concerned about punishment, fences, high tech survelliance, etc. But unemployment is low, has been for seemingly forever, for the most part, Mexico is a great ally, I just can't get worked into a call out the Minuteman, call the military to patrol the border, build the great wall, etc.

Bush No Fan of Spanish Version of National Anthem

President Bush, though a polished speaker of Spanish and lover of many styles of music, will not be singing the Spanish version of the national anthem, "Nuestro Himno" (Our Anthem) released on Friday to add emphasis to "A Day Without an Immigrant" national boycott of immigrant workers set for Monday.

 

In a Rose Garden press conference, President Bush stated that he did not believe the national anthem in Spanish could ever have the same value or patriotic impact as when performed in English. "And I think people who want to be a citizen of this country ought to learn English," Bush added. "And they ought to learn to sing the national anthem in English."

Why do anything to encourage patriotism? Better they cheer and yell then sing the words in their own language.

Latest on the legislative front.

 

By Jonathan Weisman and Jim VandeHeiWashington Post Staff Writers

Wednesday, May 17, 2006; Page A01

 

A fragile Senate coalition backing a broad overhaul of the nation's immigration laws survived its first legislative test yesterday, beating back efforts to gut provisions to grant millions of illegal immigrants a path to citizenship and hundreds of thousands of foreigners a new guest-worker permit.

 

 

 

 

But President Bush's efforts to win House conservatives to his immigration proposals still faced an uphill climb. A day after a prime-time televised address to the nation, Bush continued to make his case yesterday that immigration legislation must be comprehensive -- tightening control of the borders, offering a new temporary guest-worker visa to foreign workers, and offering most illegal immigrants a path to lawful employment and citizenship.

 

Good luck Mr. President.

And that's my point. It shouldn't be that way. If we are going to open up the US job market to foreign labor, why shouldn't the entire world be on equal footing, and not just one race who happend to hit the geography lotto? I honestly believe it is racist to open the US labor market to primarily one race. Then again our entire immigration system is racist as it considers certian countries immigrants by their country of orgin, instead of simply by something like their plight, or their skills.

 

We should take care of our neighbors because it adds to our national securty. Having an ally next door is advantagous to having an enemy. Healthy Canada and Mexico helps out economy by creating easy to get to markets for our goods and services.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2...0813.shtml?s=lh

 

 

Where's the compassion???

 

 

Maybe the ACLU will take their case.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2...0813.shtml?s=lh

 

 

Where's the compassion???

 

 

Maybe the ACLU will take their case.

 

Of course felons should be shipped back, and fast. I would even reduce the 3 misdemeanors to 2 or 1. I agree 100% with this quote

"We want to keep those who could harm us, the criminal element, out," said Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., one of the authors of the bill. "Those who could benefit us ought to remain."

Seems so simple. As soon as we get further and further away from this thought, we get in trouble.

We should take care of our neighbors because it adds to our national securty. Having an ally next door is advantagous to having an enemy. Healthy Canada and Mexico helps out economy by creating easy to get to markets for our goods and services.

 

If this is about creating good will, wouldn't some war or famine victims play much better on the 6 o'clock news than some poor Mexicans and Canadians? We could create good will all over the world, and simultainious embark on the largest humanitarian mission in human history. We could create emerging markets all over the world for our products, and change opinions of us everywhere.

If this is about creating good will, wouldn't some war or famine victims play much better on the 6 o'clock news than some poor Mexicans and Canadians? We could create good will all over the world, and simultainious embark on the largest humanitarian mission in human history. We could create emerging markets all over the world for our products, and change opinions of us everywhere.

 

Who said anything about goodwill? Where would you rather live? Next door to Stickney or next door to Lake Forest? I'm suggesting that having a robust, healthy neighbor is better than a desperate one. As you have mentioned, take away the incentive and illegal immigration becomes less of a problem. As Mexico developes and becomes healthier, the incentive to leave is lessened.