KW's sending out mixed signals

[gosox41]

The McCarthy trade has really thrown me for a loop. I get the logic, if they think McCarthy isn't going to be as good as Danks. Even if Danks is as good as McCarthy and one of the other guys becomes a decent reliever it was a good trade.

 

I just have some random thoughts regarding the resent stock piling of power arms and especially the McCarthy trade and would like other people's thoughts or clarifications:

 

1. Is Danks/Floyd ready to start the 2007 season in the majors as a SP? Isn't that asking a lot. I thought KW had a plan to actually develop young guys and not rush them. On a similar note, didn't KW once comment on McCarthy learning the ropes from the bull pen and how he prefers this method for young pitching. If so, then if the team is trying to win in 2007, it definitely wasn't a good idea to trade McCarthy.

 

2. If KW had done a better job of drafting pitchers the last 6 years, do you think he'd still trade McCarthy? I mean the Sox haven't done a good job at all of this. Broadway is a #4 guy at best. Haegaer may bebeen the best of what was in the minors for the 2006 Sox and I'm not quite ready to anoint him a pitching savior.

 

3. The Ardesma (sp?) for Cotts trade makes little sense. I trust KW and his scouts, but I don't see Ardesma statistically being that much better then Cotts. Add the fact that Cotts is a lefty and it makes me wondre more. If the Sox were looking to go wtih young pitching, do you think Cotts should have been given a shot as a starter?

 

The more I look at it, particular trade was more a salary dump to save $1MM for a team that doesn't need to dump salary. I think Cotts has more value then Ardesma. Maybe Vazquez will be the sleeper of the trade.

 

4. KW has a love for power arms. And I have no problem with them, but just because you throw hard doesn't mean you'll be a good pitcher. Being young and throwing hard means you have a lot of value. It doesn't mean you're guaranteed domination. Is anyone else concerned about having 5-6 relievers that all have the same best pitch?

 

Based on the need for speed, I'm wondering if Haegar will get a fair shot.

 

5. KW's legacy as a GM is going to be determined by this offseason more then any other (including the 2004-2005 winter). He is setting a course for this organization by having a plan and executing it. If this team sucks in 2008-2009 people will refer to thos offseason as the reason why.

 

I give KW credit for having the guts to do what he's doing. And I trust the scouts a lot more when it come to finding minor league pitching then when it comes to drafting college/HS players. But we have to hope the scouts are right on about these guys.

 

6. I don't think KW is done yet. Hopefully he doesn't get fleeced in a deal for an offensive player. The starting pitching, IMHO, is weaker because right now our 5th starter has zero to very limited ML experience and we don't have a 6th starter waiting in the wings that I have confidence to be a success in 2007.

 

 

Bob

[Baines3]

I don't think KW is done making deals either. I wish he would make one for a outfielder who is a decent hitter.

[LosMediasBlancas]

Doesn't he now almost HAVE to unload Buehrle asap? Otherwise, I really don't understand the plan.

[daa84]

Doesn't he now almost HAVE to unload Buehrle asap? Otherwise, I really don't understand the plan.

2 words....trade deadline

[Flash Tizzle]

2 words....trade deadline

We're not going to receive anything for him. These last two seasons have shown teams aren't willing to give up legitimate talent for someone entering the second half of their contract year. Especially if whichever team isn't confident they'll resign him long-term.

 

Another concept is one I expressed on numerous occasions last offseason. Much depends on the record of our ballclub come July. If Buehrle is pitching poorly, but we're five games ahead, does Williams risk trading him? If we were to receive anything of value it would have to be because Buehrle rebounded from last seasons dreadful second half. Dealing pitchers before the season is one thing, it's quite another midseason when a ballclub is anything but 10+ games out of a playoff spot.

[DBAHO]

We're not going to receive anything for him. These last two seasons have shown teams aren't willing to give up legitimate talent for someone entering the second half of their contract year. Especially if whichever team isn't confident they'll resign him long-term.

 

Another concept is one I expressed on numerous occasions last offseason. Much depends on the record of our ballclub come July. If Buehrle is pitching poorly, but we're five games ahead, does Williams risk trading him? If we were to receive anything of value it would have to be because Buehrle rebounded from last seasons dreadful second half. Dealing pitchers before the season is one thing, it's quite another midseason when a ballclub is anything but 10+ games out of a playoff spot.

We can always take the 2 draft picks if Buehrle bolts in FA, and use that on young pitching (think of the Lumsden and Gio draftings).

 

The Nats could have gotten a deal revolving around Matt Garza for Soriano at the deadline (if reports were correct, but Bowden's an idiot), so there's always hope if Buehrle is pitching well that we could get SOMETHING for him, although like you've said, a lot of teams at the deadline don't want to give up good young talent to fill a need anymore.

 

Right now my thoughts on Buehrle, is kind of like how KW treated the B-Mac situation. He shouldn't be traded, BUT, if someone comes in with an offer (e.g Reyes + the Cards stud OF spect) that is too good to turn down, then you take that deal. And that deal I've speculated is kind of like the Freddy Garcia trade where the contract expires after this season, and we 2 premium young talents in return.

 

And if you do a deal like that, we've saved something like $25-30M this off-season. And put the bulk of that to try and sign Roger Clemens. Think of a rotation with;

 

Clemens

Contreras

Garland

Vazquez

Reyes

 

Not only does it improve your chances of winning this season, but you set yourself up better for the future I think. But this is pretty much a dream scenario in signing Clemens, but at least the Sox should try and explore the possibility.

[Flash Tizzle]

Right now my thoughts on Buehrle, is kind of like how KW treated the B-Mac situation. He shouldn't be traded, BUT, if someone comes in with an offer (e.g Reyes + the Cards stud OF spect) that is too good to turn down, then you take that deal. And that deal I've speculated is kind of like the Freddy Garcia trade where the contract expires after this season, and we 2 premium young talents in return.

 

And if you do a deal like that, we've saved something like $25-30M this off-season. And put the bulk of that to try and sign Roger Clemens. Think of a rotation with;

 

Clemens

Contreras

Garland

Vazquez

Reyes

 

Not only does it improve your chances of winning this season, but you set yourself up better for the future I think. But this is pretty much a dream scenario in signing Clemens, but at least the Sox should try and explore the possibility.

Eh, right now even I'm a little hesitant at the idea of trading another starter. Such a package for Buehrle must be unbelievable. We're talking Humber AND Pelfrey. Reyes doesn't do it for me. I wouldn't have minded traded Buehrle previously if McCarthy remained on the team. As of now, we're more dependent on his innings over anything else.

 

What worries me about Clemens is first, how the American League will handle him, and second, if he'll be willing to pitch more often. Roger Clemens puts on our uniform, he's not playing his little games. 30 starts, 20-25 million. His ass pitches in cold weather, on the road, in a dome, wherever we say.

Edited December 27, 2006 by Flash Tizzle

[DBAHO]

Eh, right now even I'm a little hesitant at the idea of trading another starter. Such a package for Buehrle must be unbelievable. We're talking Humber AND Pelfrey. Reyes doesn't do it for me. I wouldn't have minded traded Buehrle previously if McCarthy remained on the team. As of now, we're more dependent on his innings over anything else.

 

What worries me about Clemens is first, how the American League will handle him, and second, if he'll be willing to pitch more often. Roger Clemens puts on our uniform, he's not playing his little games. 30 starts, 20-25 million. His ass pitches in cold weather, on the road, in a dome, wherever we say.

I'd probably take Reyes over Humber but not Pelfrey, and that's because of the injury factor.

 

Reyes is basically another B-Mac in my mind (very similar in terms of age, experience, stuff etc,), so if you could get B-Mac plus another really good prospect for Buehrle (who's no lock to rebound in my mind), then I think that's something you really have to look at.

 

As much as people want to contend in 2007, we could set ourselves up to be Cleveland Indians like in terms of future domination if this young pitching we acquire turns out to be good, and the more you get of it, the better the chance it is it'll succeed.

 

Agreed with what you've said on Clemens, but he's the only guy out there who'll take a short - term contract (unless Barry Zito takes $25M for 1 season all of a sudden).

[WinningUgly85]

you know what KW's logic might not make sense but prior to the 05 season he made some moves that left us scratching our heads. Hence trading Carlos Lee and Jose Valentin. He made some questionable trades to get us a World Championship. Do I agree with him trading McCarthy? I don't know yet only time will tell. As hard as it is we must trust in KW.

[Jeremy]

2. If KW had done a better job of drafting pitchers the last 6 years, do you think he'd still trade McCarthy? I mean the Sox haven't done a good job at all of this. Broadway is a #4 guy at best. Haegaer may bebeen the best of what was in the minors for the 2006 Sox and I'm not quite ready to anoint him a pitching savior.

 

Personally, I don't view drafting as the problem. The drafts haven't been great but BMac, Young, and Reed were all elite prospects at one point in time. In my opinion Kenny's biggest problem has been his fixation with good but not great prospects like Sweeney and Floyd that has encouraged him to trade away players like McCarthy and Young.

[kapkomet]

People's problem is the fear of the unknown around here vs. not fearing what you know. Miguel Olivo was the next Carlton Fisk around here. How the hell has that panned out?

 

I could go on, but you get the point.

[EvilJester99]

I am trying the wait and see approach myself. I feel KW isn't finished. I will wait to see the total "Big pitcure" before I decide if I want to jump off a building.

[GoSox05]

well we know that spring training is gonna be intresting. Im excited about that. its only a few months away.

[NorthSideSox72]

The title of this thread is funny. Mixed signals from KW. Why not call it "The sun rose this morning."

 

Kenny is a poker player. Let's see what his pot looks like on April 1.

[RME JICO]

The title of this thread is funny. Mixed signals from KW. Why not call it "The sun rose this morning."

 

Kenny is a poker player. Let's see what his pot looks like on April 1.

So we have seen the flop and the river? Now we have the turn. Hopefully he has pocket Aces.