Newt on Iran

[Texsox]

BTW, I think Newt would make a fine Rebublican President. I would not agree with his agenda, but I think he would be good. There are those ethics violations that were plea bargained away, but over all I agree he is a very well read, intelligent, politician and could sit in the highest office and not screw it up too much.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Actually we didn't negotiate. We shut them out. Then they made nukes. Now we'll talk again. Notice a pattern here?

 

 

We didn't negotiate with them?! I seem to remember us signing a treaty with them in 1994 saying they wouldn't produce nukes in exchange for various concessions. Thats a treaty that they broke just as soon as it suited them.

 

Can you be in the military and still use sarcasm like a 13 year old girl?

 

 

LOL! Im not really concerned about what it sounds like as long as it drives the point home.

[Balta1701]

We didn't negotiate with them?! I seem to remember us signing a treaty with them in 1994 saying they wouldn't produce nukes in exchange for various concessions. Thats a treaty that they broke just as soon as it suited them.

Neither side lived up to the obligations in that treaty. The U.S. was obligated to begin construction of 2 light water (hard to use for weapons production) nuclear reactors in North Korea that they could use for power instead of their older, better for weapons production reactors, and the Congress scuttled funding for that in 1995.

[Texsox]

Neither side lived up to the obligations in that treaty. The U.S. was obligated to begin construction of 2 light water (hard to use for weapons production) nuclear reactors in North Korea that they could use for power instead of their older, better for weapons production reactors, and the Congress scuttled funding for that in 1995.

 

That is out prerogative. We can break any treaty but the other side must live up to theirs.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Balta, your assertion that we nixed the funding in 1995 is not correct. What actually held up the production of the light water reactors then was a rejection of the reactor design by the North Koreans themselves.

 

 

This article is a great primer on the history of the DPRK nuclear weapons saga.

 

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/dprk/nuke/index.html

 

 

Smooth implementation of the 1994 agreed framework was obstructed for a time by North Korea's refusal to accept South Korean-designed LWR model reactors.

 

Reading further in the article, there wasn't even an agreement on the design until December of that year.

 

 

On 19 August 1997 KEDO and North Korea held a groundbreaking ceremony to begin construction of two light-water reactors.

 

So, construction of the reactors actually did begin in spite of haggling over how much the token U.S. share was to be ( The South Koreans were to provide the bulk of the monies to pay for this ). However, in light of the 2002 admission by the north that they were producing nuclear weapons the work was halted and never continued.

 

 

 

 

Bottom line: We held up our end of the bargain and the North Koreans renigged. They didn't hold up their end then just as they acceeded to and renigged on no less than 4 other agreements in the preceeding years since 1985.

Edited January 29, 2007 by NUKE

[Balta1701]

Here is the Wikipedia entry:

Soon after the agreement was signed, U.S. Congress control changed to the Republican Party, who did not support the agreement. Some Republican Senators were strongly against the agreement, regarding it as appeasement [6] [7]. Initially U.S. Department of Defense emergency funds not under Congress control were used to fund the transitional oil supplies under the agreement [8], together with international funding. From 1996 Congress provided funding, though not always sufficient amounts [9]. Consequently some of the agreed transitional oil supplies were delivered late. KEDO's first director, Stephen Bosworth, later commented "The Agreed Framework was a political orphan within two weeks after its signature". [10]

 

Some analysts believe North Korea agreed to the freeze primarily because of the U.S. agreement to phase out economic sanctions that had been in place since the Korean War. But because of congressional opposition, the U.S. failed to deliver on this part of the agreement. [11]

 

International funding for the LWR replacement power plants had to be sought. Formal invitations to bid were not issued until 1998, by which time the delays were infuriating North Korea. [12] Significant spending on the LWR project did not commence until 2000. [13]

 

There was increasing disagreement between North Korea and U.S. on the scope and implementation of the treaty. When by 1999 economic sanctions had not been lifted and full diplomatic relations between U.S. and North Korea had not been established, North Korea warned that they would resume nuclear research unless the U.S. kept up its end of the bargain. U.S. has repeatedly stated that further implementation would be stalled as long as suspicions remained that the North Korean nuclear weapons research program continued covertly.

 

Construction of the first LWR reactor began in August 2002. Construction of both reactors was well behind schedule. The initial plan was for both reactors to be operational by 2003, but the construction had been halted indefinitely in late 2002.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Here is the Wikipedia entry:

 

 

Where is that document sourced from? Because we HAD lifted some economic sanctions almost immediately after the treaty was signed. ( Same article )

 

 

In accordance with the terms of the 1994 framework, the US Government in January 1995 responded to North Korea's decision to freeze its nuclear program and cooperate with US and IAEA verification efforts by easing economic sanctions against North Korea in four areas through:

 

* Authorizing transactions related to telecommunications connections, credit card use for personal or travel-related transactions, and the opening of journalists' offices;

* Authorizing D.P.R.K. use of the U.S. banking system to clear transactions not originating or terminating in the United States and unblocking frozen assets where there is no D.P.R.K. Government interest;

* Authorizing imports of magnesite, a refractory material used in the U.S. steel industry--North Korea and China are the world's primary sources of this raw material; and

* Authorizing transactions related to future establishment of liaison offices, case-by-case participation of U.S. companies in the light water reactor project, supply of alternative energy, and disposition of spent nuclear fuel as provided for by the agreed framework, in a manner consistent with applicable laws.

 

Again. Im not seeing where we renigged on anything. If nothing else, we stopped lifting sanctions because they started gathering plutonium as we found out to our surprise in 1997.

[Damen]

LOL! Im not really concerned about what it sounds like as long as it drives the point home.

 

That was really my point is that using obnoxious sarcasm soooooo does not get whatever point you may think you have across. If you disagree with anything, you should be able to explain where you disagree and what the correct view. Granted, I haven't been on these boards as long as you all have, but when I see more than the necessary amount of "o's" in a word, it doesn't me think "hmm, he disagrees with my thoughts, I should understand what he has to say to see if it has merit."

 

No, it makes me think I'm arguing with Blossom. And who wants to do that when Six is next door?

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

That was really my point is that using obnoxious sarcasm soooooo does not get whatever point you may think you have across. If you disagree with anything, you should be able to explain where you disagree and what the correct view. Granted, I haven't been on these boards as long as you all have, but when I see more than the necessary amount of "o's" in a word, it doesn't me think "hmm, he disagrees with my thoughts, I should understand what he has to say to see if it has merit."

 

No, it makes me think I'm arguing with Blossom. And who wants to do that when Six is next door?

 

 

Well, if you read all of my posts and not just the sarcastic ones you'll see that Im perfectly capable of engaging in a lucid discussion with the various posters here.

[Texsox]

Well, if you read all of my posts and not just the sarcastic ones you'll see that Im perfectly capable of engaging in a lucid discussion with the various posters here.

 

When? you dork