Rex Hudler Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 The Sox should sign Colon to an extension. Pay him $10-$12 mil a year for 5 years.... this guy is exactly what the Sox need for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 ..........yeah ok.............not..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 The Sox should sign Colon to an extension. Pay him $10-$12 mil a year for 5 years.... this guy is exactly what the Sox need for the future. So far Colon's record with us isn't worth $4 million to me. I hope we trade him soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 23, 2003 Author Share Posted June 23, 2003 So far Colon's record with us isn't worth $4 million to me. I hope we trade him soon. Where would the Sox be if he wasn't on the staff right now?? He is 6-7 which is a better winning % than the club overall. He leads the team in IP. Has only 28 walks in 109 IP (before today). Â He has not been spectacular so far, but (don't look now) neither has anyone else on the team. He has been your most consistent starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Where would the Sox be if he wasn't on the staff right now?? He is 6-7 which is a better winning % than the club overall. He leads the team in IP. Has only 28 walks in 109 IP (before today). He has not been spectacular so far, but (don't look now) neither has anyone else on the team. He has been your most consistent starter. I think Loiaza has been pretty spectacular.  Where would the Sox be? That's arguable, but I can think of two more victories we might have. I also think that we have a number of pitchers who can post a 6-7 record for under $500,000 a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 23, 2003 Author Share Posted June 23, 2003 Where would the Sox be if he wasn't on the staff right now?? He is 6-7 which is a better winning % than the club overall. He leads the team in IP. Has only 28 walks in 109 IP (before today). He has not been spectacular so far, but (don't look now) neither has anyone else on the team. He has been your most consistent starter. I think Loiaza has been pretty spectacular.  Where would the Sox be? That's arguable, but I can think of two more victories we might have. I also think that we have a number of pitchers who can post a 6-7 record for under $500,000 a year. On this team, I don't think anyone else gives you what he does. Blame the rest of the team. He is the guy most suited to be an ace for years to come. You don't get a true #1 guy too often, so you need to hang onto him.  I know you don't like his "attitude", but cliques amongst Latin players are a very common thing. The clubhouse issues would be no big deal if the Sox were winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keaddy Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 that's a pretty broad statement-20 yrs ago we had a guy named Lamar Hoyt pitching pretty darn good for us.While I'm not as down on him as some others may be-let's just wait and see how this thing plays out before we wrap him up for 5 yrs and big money........... Â Â K-Y Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Where would the Sox be if he wasn't on the staff right now?? He is 6-7 which is a better winning % than the club overall. He leads the team in IP. Has only 28 walks in 109 IP (before today). He has not been spectacular so far, but (don't look now) neither has anyone else on the team. He has been your most consistent starter. I think Loiaza has been pretty spectacular.  Where would the Sox be? That's arguable, but I can think of two more victories we might have. I also think that we have a number of pitchers who can post a 6-7 record for under $500,000 a year.  Like who? Colon's ERA is under 4.00...you think Garland/Wright/Raych/Cotts/Glover will be able to have that type of year before 2005 at the earliest if ever? Well, Garland has an outside shot but he wouldn't be making 500K.   Elo was a rare exception, we siimply lucked out- normally mediocre pitchers don't have HOF-caliber (ERA in low 2.00s, are you kidding me?!) seasons.  Colon has a great arm, and with some fitness dedication on his part, diet and some maturity, he may become second best pitcher in AL behind Pedro- his repertoir of pitches is that good. However, first he needs to WANT to stay here and I won't think he does. There is no question that based on the talent alone, he is worth 10,000,000+ in the open market, and as a "high-up investor" you should know it before anyone else, buddy.  Getting back to Elo, Yankees are going to lose both Wells and Clemens, and Weaver simply sucks. With Pettite making more money than he is worth, Mussina may be the second pitcher they retain besides Contreras. Sox do have a 3.5 mill option on Elo it turns out, but if he has a sub-3.50 ERA season in 2004 (distinct possibility since he is simply that good this year), at 32 he will also demand to be paid ...I am talking about 8-9 mill easy. Great arms don't come at 500K, my friend...unless you have a Mark Prior stashed away somewheres.  Pay up for Colon and Elo and Burly in the next 5 years, or watch your fanbase shrink even further. Especially if playoffs are not made in 2003, which is a real f***in' possibility I'd venture a guess... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 I'm not concerned about the hispanic thing, nor would I be concerned about the 'cliques', they happen, but all these things added together, the record, his quotes about showing up, his getting tired today, a game that not only meant a lot to the fans, but would've been a sweep and maintained a 4.5 game behind theTwins, that's the problem. That's when I expect an Ace to step up. He doesn't. If the CG is there, if the personal goals are in reach, he shows up, but it's not for the team. Colon entered today's game with a 4.19 ERA, now down to 3.93. Yes, I think Garland, Wright and Rauch, along with Buehrle would all get there within 3 years, bt more importantly than stats, they would get us wins. I would not sign Colon, and in fact trade him asap. What we could get would fill more than one of the holes we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 23, 2003 Author Share Posted June 23, 2003 Damn, Ncorgbl, I am disappointed in you. Â HSC told me I could get you into a long and heated argument tonight. I was really bored tonight and was looking for a little sparring. LOL Â I do think the Sox should be very careful if they decide to get rid of Colon. He certainly has the characteristics and potential to be a dominant #1 starter, which is rare. He is a guy that could be dominant and carry a team in the playoffs. I'd hate to see the Sox lose to Colon on another team in the ALCS. Â If they think it is best to trade him, they need to make sure they get premium prospects in return. A deal like many trades these days that is based more on money than the talent of the prospects would be bad in the long term for the Sox. They signed him knowing how much he would cost and to move him to try and save money would be detrimental unless they get real value in return. Trading him for a middling prospect as part of a salary dump would not be wise. Â In all, I do really feel that they should try and keep him. I am not sure at what price it needs to be and my earlier numbers were just thrown out there to get you going. He seems to be a guy you could build a staff around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 We'll disagree on Colon and leave it as such. One thing for certain, as I had hoped he would and didn't today, if he does change my mind, it's what would be best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sat46 Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 The Sox should sign Colon to an extension. Pay him $10-$12 mil a year for 5 years.... this guy is exactly what the Sox need for the future. When I think of great pitchers like Tom Seaver, Steve Carlton, Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens, etc., I find that they all had strong work ethics, believed in physical conditioning, and had fire in the belly.  Bartolo Colon will last as long as his youth does, then he will pay for his lack of conditioning. Dave Wells could have been a great pitcher instead of a good one had he practiced some self restraint and worked out more.  I don't think Colon will have the future you believe he will. I don't think he has the fire in the belly for it, as large as it is. IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 After watching Colon pitch for the first 11 or so weeks of the season, I feel he is a valuable commodity. He does eat innings up, usually gives you a quality start and can be dominant, at times. However, Having some idea of JR's budget restraint and his philosphy on giving pitchers big money, long term contracts, I think it will probably become a moot point. Colon more than likely wants out of here, and JR more than likely wouldn't sign him to the type of contract he wants, so I'd say after this season, he'll walk. The only question at this point is, do we trade this guy, or keep him around in case we actually become a factor in the AL Central race? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 How about we trade him now, fill a couple of holes, and then become a major factor in the division race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grebeck Fan Club Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Colon gives us innings in a way that no one else in this staff does. If we trade him, that's an admission that we're not looking for the playoffs this year. The only reason we have any bit of a chance to make the playoffs is our crappy division. Â A long-term deal would be somewhat risky, and since we don't give pitchers long-term deals, it's not happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 We won't be a factor this year without Colon. Since no one ever interviews this guy, we don't have any idea where he stands. Where does he want to pitch next year and beyond? Is it possible that we could not sign him even if we offered $10 MM per year? Who talks to this guy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#2 Nelson Fox 1959 MVP Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Colon gives us innings in a way that no one else in this staff does. If we trade him, that's an admission that we're not looking for the playoffs this year. The only reason we have any bit of a chance to make the playoffs is our crappy division. A long-term deal would be somewhat risky, and since we don't give pitchers long-term deals, it's not happening. If a trade would fill a couple of holes and the bats come alive that wouldn't be an admission of not looking to make the playoffs. That'd be more like what people have been asking for since 2000. A trade to push the team over the top. Wouldn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blspieg Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Corg- you still won't give Colon a break will ya? Â Ps how about them mlb boards? I have been locked out for over a week now, what a sham! I still can't adjust to this format. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 bls, what problems are you having with the format? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Corg- you still won't give Colon a break will ya? Ps how about them mlb boards? I have been locked out for over a week now, what a sham! I still can't adjust to this format. I heard, don't know what to tell you, except write to them. I can't use my OPERA browser there either any longer, won't let me sign in.  I was skeptical about Colon when we got him, and didn't say much until last week, so I think I gave him enough time to do something to win me over, and he hasn't at all. 6-7 with an ERA close to 4 is not a $12+ million Ace for me. The CGs are nice, and innings too, but I'd prefer Ws, even Wright's Ws from last year with the higher ERA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sat46 Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Corg- you still won't give Colon a break will ya? Ps how about them mlb boards? I have been locked out for over a week now, what a sham! I still can't adjust to this format. Hey blspieg,  I see you made your way over to this site. Welcome aboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 23, 2003 Author Share Posted June 23, 2003 Colon gives us innings in a way that no one else in this staff does. If we trade him, that's an admission that we're not looking for the playoffs this year. The only reason we have any bit of a chance to make the playoffs is our crappy division. A long-term deal would be somewhat risky, and since we don't give pitchers long-term deals, it's not happening. If a trade would fill a couple of holes and the bats come alive that wouldn't be an admission of not looking to make the playoffs. That'd be more like what people have been asking for since 2000. A trade to push the team over the top. Wouldn't it? Unless we eat most or all of Colon's salary, we aren't going to get the level of prospects in return to fill the holes you speak of immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zach23 Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Corg- you still won't give Colon a break will ya? Ps how about them mlb boards? I have been locked out for over a week now, what a sham! I still can't adjust to this format. Hey blspieg,  I see you made your way over to this site. Welcome aboard. Lot's of familiar faces showing up here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Colon gives us innings in a way that no one else in this staff does. If we trade him, that's an admission that we're not looking for the playoffs this year. The only reason we have any bit of a chance to make the playoffs is our crappy division. A long-term deal would be somewhat risky, and since we don't give pitchers long-term deals, it's not happening. If a trade would fill a couple of holes and the bats come alive that wouldn't be an admission of not looking to make the playoffs. That'd be more like what people have been asking for since 2000. A trade to push the team over the top. Wouldn't it? Unless we eat most or all of Colon's salary, we aren't going to get the level of prospects in return to fill the holes you speak of immediately. Though I've not really looked around, I'd have to disagree off the cuff. I think a number of teams in the hunt would be more than willing to overpay for Colon, if we can be smart enough to hold them up for more. Anyone can sell the argument that Colon's record and disposition are the result of his teammates not hitting, heck, that argument is made right here. And his 'rep' would make most G.M.s drool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zach23 Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Colon gives us innings in a way that no one else in this staff does. If we trade him, that's an admission that we're not looking for the playoffs this year. The only reason we have any bit of a chance to make the playoffs is our crappy division. A long-term deal would be somewhat risky, and since we don't give pitchers long-term deals, it's not happening. If a trade would fill a couple of holes and the bats come alive that wouldn't be an admission of not looking to make the playoffs. That'd be more like what people have been asking for since 2000. A trade to push the team over the top. Wouldn't it? Unless we eat most or all of Colon's salary, we aren't going to get the level of prospects in return to fill the holes you speak of immediately. Though I've not really looked around, I'd have to disagree off the cuff. I think a number of teams in the hunt would be more than willing to overpay for Colon, if we can be smart enough to hold them up for more. Anyone can sell the argument that Colon's record and disposition are the result of his teammates not hitting, heck, that argument is made right here. And his 'rep' would make most G.M.s drool. This is the stuff Billy Beane always does. Make a trade that most people think is insane at the time and wind up getting the better of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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