Dick Allen Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Colon gives us innings in a way that no one else in this staff does. If we trade him, that's an admission that we're not looking for the playoffs this year. The only reason we have any bit of a chance to make the playoffs is our crappy division. A long-term deal would be somewhat risky, and since we don't give pitchers long-term deals, it's not happening. If a trade would fill a couple of holes and the bats come alive that wouldn't be an admission of not looking to make the playoffs. That'd be more like what people have been asking for since 2000. A trade to push the team over the top. Wouldn't it? Unless we eat most or all of Colon's salary, we aren't going to get the level of prospects in return to fill the holes you speak of immediately. The only thing that would raise his price would be a Yankee/Red Sox bidding war, which could happen if the Yankees continue to struggle. I read, however, that their minor league system is pretty tapped at the moment. If were just going to get crap,(like what they got for Durham) they should hold on to him for the draft picks. He pitched a great game, if it was Buerhle out there and he left in the 8th winning 1-0, the same people who are now complaining about Colon would be upset with the run support Buerhle got. The offense let us down. Ordonez has got to start doing some major damage, he had a couple of big chances, but didn't get the job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 I wouldn't be too quick in getting rid of Bart. I like the start of a rotation with Bart and Mark. E-Lo may be around for a few more seasons, maybe not. Garland is starting to impress me. He reminds me of my golf game one or two bad innings (holes) away from really being a player. At worse he's the third best starter we have this season and probably our 2nd best. I'm going to post a poll regarding our future at pitcher and see who would pick Colon next season over Mark, E-Lo, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 ...The offense let us down. Ordonez has got to start doing some major damage, he had a couple of big chances, but didn't get the job done. There is no question the offense didn't do a thing yesterday, ALL of them. However, I maintain that a true 'Ace', a guy who wants $12+ million, has a rep of being an inning eater, CGer, and gets stronger as the game goes on should've stepped up. He did for 7 innings. I thought he was going to change my mind about him. He didn't. I expected more than 'he got tired.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 There is no question the offense didn't do a thing yesterday, ALL of them. However, I maintain that a true 'Ace', a guy who wants $12+ million, has a rep of being an inning eater, CGer, and gets stronger as the game goes on should've stepped up. He did for 7 innings. I thought he was going to change my mind about him. He didn't. I expected more than 'he got tired.' Do you think he wanted to exit while he still had a chance for a W and not a L? Could he be thinking his record and how it would impact his future? That may explain getting tired. As in tired of struggling around .500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 There is no question the offense didn't do a thing yesterday, ALL of them. However, I maintain that a true 'Ace', a guy who wants $12+ million, has a rep of being an inning eater, CGer, and gets stronger as the game goes on should've stepped up. He did for 7 innings. I thought he was going to change my mind about him. He didn't. I expected more than 'he got tired.' The guy that not just wants but makes $12 million a year grounds to short I didn't see the replay but he looked safe, and grounds into the 2003 White Sox trademark double play with runners on first and second with one out. If the Sox were up 2-0 or 3-0 in the eighth, there is no way Kim would have waved home the runner, and the way the rest of the inning played out the Cubs probably would have scored only 1 run. Of course Botch would have come in in the 9th so it all could be a mute point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Do you think he wanted to exit while he still had a chance for a W and not a L? Could he be thinking his record and how it would impact his future? That may explain getting tired. As in tired of struggling around .500 Could be, but I don't think so. I simply think his heart is not with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 The Sox should sign Colon to an extension. Pay him $10-$12 mil a year for 5 years.... this guy is exactly what the Sox need for the future. I would sign him, but he is not the best pitcher in last 20 years though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 23, 2003 Author Share Posted June 23, 2003 I would sign him, but he is not the best pitcher in last 20 years though Half my original comments were designed solely to get Ncorgbl into an argument. I was bored and it was a slow night. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Half my original comments were designed solely to get Ncorgbl into an argument. I was bored and it was a slow night. LOL So, who do I know you better as, just so I know who I'm being baited into argument by? You have advantage here. Wanna play fair! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 23, 2003 Author Share Posted June 23, 2003 So, who do I know you better as, just so I know who I'm being baited into argument by? You have advantage here. Wanna play fair! I don't have another name, so you wouldn't know me as someone else. I was just bored last night and I told HSC I was going to try to stir something up. I saw you on and knew you would not back down from a good debate. She warned me it could go on all night. Hence my disappointment that I didn't get your fired up more. I thought some of my comments were "out there" enough to get you fired up. LOL Don't take it personally, it was just a matter of timing. It was late, I was bored and you were online at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 I don't have another name, so you wouldn't know me as someone else. I was just bored last night and I told HSC I was going to try to stir something up. I saw you on and knew you would not back down from a good debate. She warned me it could go on all night. Hence my disappointment that I didn't get your fired up more. I thought some of my comments were "out there" enough to get you fired up. LOL Don't take it personally, it was just a matter of timing. It was late, I was bored and you were online at the same time. Oh no, nothing 'personal' taken! I enjoy that debate. I rarely take anything personal anyway, with exception to those who question my integrity or feign friendship only to stab in the back. But I do fight the fight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 No doubt Colon is one of the best pitchers right now. He's everything the Sox could hope for: a workhorse, a fierce competitor, a great ace, and stands up for his teammates. Hes only in his early 30's and still have some great years left in him. He now has developed some very good offspeed stuff to go with that blazing fastball. I'm 100% for keeping him, he's one of the players that we should build this team around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 That pic is priceless. That fan should be so proud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 The Sox should sign Colon to an extension. Pay him $10-$12 mil a year for 5 years.... this guy is exactly what the Sox need for the future. I dont know about that rex. IMHO colon wont last more then another 3-4 before he starts breaking down for good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 How bout we suck it up, trade Colon for 5 prospects somewhere, then trade 3 of our prospects for Beltran and sign him. Oops we can't sign Beltran since he has ayatollah as his agent. I wouldn't mind keeping colon but I can't get what ncorgl said about him out of my mind. If Ncorg is right, Colon must be a cancer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Mark B all the way.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 I love Colon. I hope we lock him up for a long time. He is a workhorse, he has a 3.93 ERA, and he stands up for his teammates! I love that. But to say hes our most consistent starter, what the hell? Loz has been our most consistent starter, to think otherwise would be insane, and this is coming from a Colon fan... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 And the thread title. Im still a Colon fan, but hes been with us less than a freakin half year! What about Jack McDowell, and Alex Fernandez and Wilson Alvarez? Not to mention the ones that pitched before my times in the last 20 years. Rex, Colon is a great pitcher and someday he might be at the same level of Sox greatness as the others, but hes not there yet! Usually youre a rather intelligent poster but this thread is ridiculous, no offense... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 24, 2003 Author Share Posted June 24, 2003 And the thread title. Im still a Colon fan, but hes been with us less than a freakin half year! What about Jack McDowell, and Alex Fernandez and Wilson Alvarez? Not to mention the ones that pitched before my times in the last 20 years. Rex, Colon is a great pitcher and someday he might be at the same level of Sox greatness as the others, but hes not there yet! Usually youre a rather intelligent poster but this thread is ridiculous, no offense... roman, you didn't read all of the posts did you?? I said about 7 or 8 posts before this one that I was basically trying to bait Ncorgbl into a late night debate, so many of my comments were "dramatized" for effect. See the following copied from one of my recent posts: I was just bored last night and I told HSC I was going to try to stir something up. I saw you on and knew you would not back down from a good debate. She warned me it could go on all night. Hence my disappointment that I didn't get your fired up more. I thought some of my comments were "out there" enough to get you fired up. LOL Then again, when all is said and done, Colon's career may just meet or exceed those of any Sox pitcher in the last 20 years. It may not, but it is possible. Was Seaver in the last 20 years?? He could be the exception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 24, 2003 Author Share Posted June 24, 2003 Rex, Colon is a great pitcher and someday he might be at the same level of Sox greatness as the others, but hes not there yet! Usually youre a rather intelligent poster but this thread is ridiculous, no offense... Thanks for the compliment! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 I'm glad I read the whole thread, because I was going to jump all over that "20 year" comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 If Jack McDowell had laid off the split-fingered fastball (which has destroyed so many careers it's not funny), he would still be a dominant pitcher. I think he's' the best Sox pitcher in the last 20 years. I would root for Dotson (but he aged badly), or Hoyt (but cocaine and burritos killed him), but Black Jack is my choice. He was a dickhead, but he was a great pitcher before he blew his arm out. He had a chance to sign a nice contract (Mark Buerhle take notice!!), and he passed. Then he turned to s***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 If Jack McDowell had laid off the split-fingered fastball (which has destroyed so many careers it's not funny), he would still be a dominant pitcher. I think he's' the best Sox pitcher in the last 20 years. I would root for Dotson (but he aged badly), or Hoyt (but cocaine and burritos killed him), but Black Jack is my choice. He was a dickhead, but he was a great pitcher before he blew his arm out. He had a chance to sign a nice contract (Mark Buerhle take notice!!), and he passed. Then he turned to s***. I have a hard time disagreeing. I just wish he had finished a season strong. It seemed his arm was rubber by September. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 He was a dickhead... Jack McDowell is one of the most despicable people I have ever had the displeasure of having met. I do believe he chokes to this very day when the word 'Toronto' is mentioned in earshot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 If Jack McDowell had laid off the split-fingered fastball (which has destroyed so many careers it's not funny), he would still be a dominant pitcher. I think he's' the best Sox pitcher in the last 20 years. I would root for Dotson (but he aged badly), or Hoyt (but cocaine and burritos killed him), but Black Jack is my choice. He was a dickhead, but he was a great pitcher before he blew his arm out. He had a chance to sign a nice contract (Mark Buerhle take notice!!), and he passed. Then he turned to s***. I don't think it was the splitter that killed blackjack. This was a rail thin guy who threw a ton of pitches and a ton of innings, with a non-fluid motion. He threw over 770 innings over a 3 year span from 91-93, and was never able to stay away from injuries after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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