Gregory Pratt Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Yahtzee! I concur! x 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 QUOTE(Jordan4life_2007 @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 08:35 PM) There isn't a manager in the history of baseball that could win with this current group. We've seen what Ozzie can do when he's got the pieces. I hope he's back. So what we're saying is that when he gets a pitching staff full of guys having career years (starters and bullpen), he can lead them to the championship? Well, that's great....and I'll gladly keep Ozzie around if we can guarantee having 4 relievers who are basically perfect. However, that was an anomaly that season, and for almost a year now, the Sox have seemed very flat and lethargic. Ozzie's going to have a few years now of young players and being in a position where we're not expected to win over 77 games or so. I just hope he has a lot more patience with the young guys than he's shown. I'm through rooting for him to get fired, as the comments in the media, as stupid as they are, show that he's not going to be the scapegoat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Regardless of what you think of Ozzie, there is no realistic way you can give him an extension this year with our play, even if this is KW's fault much more than his. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 03:35 PM) Yep....and I'm still waiting for him to get the ship righted. Do you believe he should be brought back if this team loses 100 games this year? Is it possible that maybe the media stories circulating outside of this city are right that the players have tuned him out? You and I have no clue....but this is ridiculous right now. See: 3 posts below yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 08:41 PM) Regardless of what you think of Ozzie, there is no realistic way you can give him an extension this year with our play, even if this is KW's fault much more than his. Exactly....I know G. Pratt loves the Sox more than any individual associated with the team, and that's what puzzles me how he can be 100 pct behind him after what's going on. If the Sox can play better baseball over the rest of the year (not hard to do), then go ahead and extend him. However, extending now just seems like the wrong message to send. QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 08:42 PM) See: 3 posts below yours. Which one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 If Ozzie gets extended now, the reason to do it is, It'll help the average fan and attendance. It's a PR move, if he gets it now. There's no reason to have him fired, though. OH WAIT I FORGOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 /green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 03:43 PM) If Ozzie gets extended now, the reason to do it is, It'll help the average fan and attendance. It's a PR move, if he gets it now. There's no reason to have him fired, though. There is way more reason to fire KW than Ozzie right now, not much Ozzie can do with this team. However you don't make a move for the sake of PR, ever. The Cubs have spent a century making moves for the sake of PR, that is not how you win. Like the guy in the thread last night said, those who make moves for the fans end up sitting with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 03:43 PM) Which one? All 3. No manager could win with the AA team we're fielding right now. Andy Gonzalez? Ryan Bukvich? Come on. This is on KW, and solely on KW. How many games have we lost due to Ozzie compared to how many we have lost due to the s*** 25 man roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 03:45 PM) All 3. No manager could win with the AA team we're fielding right now. Andy Gonzalez? Ryan Bukvich? Come on. This is on KW, and solely on KW. How many games have we lost due to Ozzie compared to how many we have lost due to the s*** 25 man roster. How many losses do we have now? Like 42 or something? I'd say of those 42, I could name 4 due to Ozzie. So it's a little over 9/10 on Kenny IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 08:43 PM) If Ozzie gets extended now, the reason to do it is, It'll help the average fan and attendance. It's a PR move, if he gets it now. There's no reason to have him fired, though. OH WAIT I FORGOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 /green No offense, but Ozzie means nothing for PR purposes. Winning is the only PR that really matters with that team. After that, it's the Buehrle situation. The Sox could fire Ozzie and bring in some grandma off the street, and if the Sox have a winning season, people will show up. I don't think too many people show up to see Ozzie in the dugout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 03:46 PM) No offense, but Ozzie means nothing for PR purposes. Winning is the only PR that really matters with that team. After that, it's the Buehrle situation. The Sox could fire Ozzie and bring in some grandma off the street, and if the Sox have a winning season, people will show up. I don't think too many people show up to see Ozzie in the dugout. No, but people love Ozzie. People associate Ozzie with the White Sox. Like Podsednik, which is half the reason he was brought back (the other half was, s***! All the other Leadoff hitters are expensive!!). My issues are with KW, Rick Hahn and our scouts. Our coaches, too. I take SMALL issue with Ozzie here and there, but he is NOT the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 08:50 PM) No, but people love Ozzie. People associate Ozzie with the White Sox. Like Podsednik, which is half the reason he was brought back (the other half was, s***! All the other Leadoff hitters are expensive!!). My issues are with KW, Rick Hahn and our scouts. Our coaches, too. I take SMALL issue with Ozzie here and there, but he is NOT the problem. Let's just see how much they love him if this team goes on to lose 100 games. Not many 100 million dollar payroll teams can possibly lose 100 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 03:45 PM) This is on KW, and solely on KW. As was the World Series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 03:51 PM) Let's just see how much they love him if this team goes on to lose 100 games. Not many 100 million dollar payroll teams can possibly lose 100 games. And what does Ozzie have to do with that? You pretty much just backed up our argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Which is why KW deserves so much more blame than Osvaldo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 03:51 PM) As was the World Series. So us losing is Ozzie's fault? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 03:50 PM) No, but people love Ozzie. People associate Ozzie with the White Sox. Like Podsednik, which is half the reason he was brought back (the other half was, s***! All the other Leadoff hitters are expensive!!). My issues are with KW, Rick Hahn and our scouts. Our coaches, too. I take SMALL issue with Ozzie here and there, but he is NOT the problem. IMO since he has been here, Ozzie has had 2 good teams to work with, one won a world championship (2005) and one IMO Ozzie was the biggest villian in missing the playoffs (2006). He deserves a shot with one more good team to see once and for all what he is IMO, problem is we might not have another good team for a few years. But to give him an extension this year would be stupid, you even say half of why we brought Pods back was PR and that hasn't gone too well for us has it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 03:52 PM) So us losing is Ozzie's fault? Not at all, not this season at least. Edited June 23, 2007 by Rowand44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 No, it wasn't a good move. I'm not necessarily in favor of bringing back Ozzie for PR purposes. He's still got years left on his deal, doesn't he? I'd like to keep him, but to extend him now? No, I wouldn't do that. No real reason to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 03:52 PM) IMO since he has been here, Ozzie has had 2 good teams to work with, one won a world championship (2005) and one IMO Ozzie was the biggest villian in missing the playoffs (2006). He deserves a shot with one more good team to see once and for all what he is IMO, problem is we might not have another good team for a few years. But to give him an extension this year would be stupid, you even say half of why we brought Pods back was PR and that hasn't gone too well for us has it? Uuuum, did you see the ovation he got? And did he not score our only run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 I take issue with the 90-win-Ozzie-villain storyline, though. That bullpen was hideous and his situation in CF was bad, too. The offense DIED in the second half as well. That we won 90 games is a testament to something. I'm just not sure what. We won 90 games in spite of a poorly constructed roster and terrible bullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 08:51 PM) And what does Ozzie have to do with that? You pretty much just backed up our argument. I was talking about the fans turning on him. I was just thinking of how Dusty was so beloved by the Cubs after his first year with the Cubs. A few terrible seasons later, they were demanding he be gone. I don't want to see this happen with Ozzie (as much as you don't believe), as I'd rather see this team win games with him at the helm than not win games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 03:53 PM) Uuuum, did you see the ovation he got? And did he not score our only run? Pods back was a bad move for the inflexibility it causes and the fact that he isn't that good at baseball. He's having a good, what, month? cumulative playing time but he shouldn't have been brought back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 08:54 PM) I take issue with the 90-win-Ozzie-villain storyline, though. That bullpen was hideous and his situation in CF was bad, too. The offense DIED in the second half as well. That we won 90 games is a testament to something. I'm just not sure what. We won 90 games in spite of a poorly constructed roster and terrible bullpen. Ozzie should have made KW go get another CF then, as playing Mackowiak was an insult to this team. That was an error by both Ozzie and KW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 03:53 PM) No, it wasn't a good move. I'm not necessarily in favor of bringing back Ozzie for PR purposes. He's still got years left on his deal, doesn't he? I'd like to keep him, but to extend him now? No, I wouldn't do that. No real reason to. Agreed. Also, would people STOP comparing KW to Ozzie? Ozzie just manages what the people above him give him, he's not making personnel decisions outside of the lineups and pitching (which is why I DO blame him for 2006 but not 2007). On the other hand, this is KW's 7th season running our organization and come October, we will have sat at home for 6 of the 7 postseasons and our organization will be in it's worst position since the late 80's overall in terms of the talent inside of it. For our organization to go from World Champion to one of the 5 worst talentwise in baseball in 18 months is all on KW, and something I can't believe could happen, even if you told me he was TRYING to do it (which he of course was not). Edited June 23, 2007 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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