I suppose we should give KW one more year, one more year like this one then he should be run out of town.

I don't think that's such a laughable statement. I take the position that twelve GMs are better than KW, so being sure I'd find someone who is better isn't that big a stretch.

...and you would've done it at the age of 13? Yeah ok.

Greg Pratt wouldn't have hired KW

Jerry Reinsdorf did

Thread Poster wants to give KW one more year

Reinsdorf is giving him forever

 

/thread

This is great on so many levels.

 

I think KW stays until he gets fired. Not one minute more.

 

 

(hey, no one else was making sense in this thread, I thought I would play along.)

I think DePodesta, young though he was at the time, would've been a better choice. I'm sure there are plenty of others. KW isn't a good GM and he didn't come into the job with credentials that light up the world. And I never said the bulls*** you're attributing to me. I'm just saying, I don't have a list here and now of people who I think would've been better choices to be hired. Sheesh.

Wow.

 

As a southern california resident...and having viewed Depodesta's dealings with the bullpen, Gagne, JD Drew, Beltre, Penny, Martin, and probably at the top of my list, Dioner Navarro...I think you're really, really, really wrong on that guy...and I think no matter how unhappy some of the folks around here are with Coletti, he's still an order of magnitude better than what Depodesta was doing.

That being said, KW has made the decision this year to keep the same core and to go for it next year.

 

 

I wouldn't say this is true. It may be what he is saying, but if he really thinks this team can "go for it next year" without major changes the guy has lost his marbles.

I wouldn't say this is true. It may be what he is saying, but if he really thinks this team can "go for it next year" without major changes the guy has lost his marbles.

Which is why he has said multiple times there will be major changes.

 

I'm giving Kenny 1 more day. (See: thread about Terry Ryan in Diamond Club)

and I think no matter how unhappy some of the folks around here are with Coletti, he's still an order of magnitude better than what Depodesta was doing.

 

Heh -- that's rather funny. Which two pitchers are carrying the Dodgers' rotation right now? And who acquired them, despite being heavily (and I mean heavily) scrutinized?

 

Colletti, OTOH -- Juan Pierre... Luis Gonzalez. I know it's not really fair of me to just bring up Coletti's worst two moves, but it's tough for me to respect a GM who gave Juan Pierre 5/$45.

Heh -- that's rather funny. Which two pitchers are carrying the Dodgers' rotation right now? And who acquired them, despite being heavily (and I mean heavily) scrutinized?

 

Colletti, OTOH -- Juan Pierre... Luis Gonzalez. I know it's not really fair of me to just bring up Coletti's worst two moves, but it's tough for me to respect a GM who gave Juan Pierre 5/$45.

I'm not sure I'd say Colletti has been better...but that doesn't mean DePodesta did a good job. Just remember...both of those guys were brought into essentially a better situation than even the White Sox have had...a team that can afford a $100m payroll, and on top of that, have had an absolutely loaded farm system (as opposed to the Sox). And yet all they've managed to pull off was a playoff birth back in 04 where they were pounded by the Cardinals and which probably consumed Gagne's arm in the process.

I know you take pride in irrationally loving Ozzie and irrationally hating Williams, but the cuteness does eventually fade. Like when you say, I know absolutely nothing about nothing in terms of personnel men, but I would have done better! I dunno -- maybe I'm supposed to laugh at that, but I don't.

 

 

but that doesn't mean DePodesta did a good job.

 

What did he do that was bad? The JD Drew contract worked out pretty well for the Dodgers -- they got about 750 at-bats of a ~135 OPS+ from him.

 

which probably consumed Gagne's arm in the process.

 

That's DePo's fault how?

 

DePo was fired because McCourt made a kneejerk reaction to dumbasses like Bill Plaschke writing bulls*** pieces on the "computer geek".

 

I'm not saying DePo is a perfect GM -- his communication skills were called into question during his time in LA -- but to fire him after what, one year, a year and a half? That's a load of crap. As such, this comment:

 

and having viewed Depodesta's dealings with the bullpen, Gagne, JD Drew, Beltre, Penny, Martin, and probably at the top of my list, Dioner Navarro...I think you're really, really, really wrong on that guy

 

really makes about zero sense.

It's funny because it seems JR is giving him until 2012.

 

 

Even JR may be sick of being the laughingstock by then..or maybe 2012 is when the Sox will be good again because as one of the alleged minor league "experts" that post here told me, it takes years to rebuild a crappy farm system.

 

 

Bob

I wouldn't say this is true. It may be what he is saying, but if he really thinks this team can "go for it next year" without major changes the guy has lost his marbles.

 

 

Maybe not every core member will be back but let's look at the core players:

 

PK-KW loves him but he does have trade value

Thome-No trade clause

Dye-Limited no trade clause

Pierzynski-You can dump him, but the SOx have no one remotely close to him

Fields-Will definnitely be here because he's young and cheap

Buehrle-Almost a full no trade clause including one that covers this offseason

Vazquez-Limited No Trade Clause

Garland-Most likely to be traded

Contreras-Would love to trade him, but who wants him. Also has some form of a no trade clause

Danks-Young and cheap, not going anywhere

Jenks-Not going anywhere

 

I named 11 players that are the core (though I don't know if you want to include Fields and Danks because they're young but seem to have bright futures). That's ober 40% of the 25 man roster. How many of theseguys do you think will be gone net year?

 

 

 

Bob

I'm not sure I'd say Colletti has been better...but that doesn't mean DePodesta did a good job. Just remember...both of those guys were brought into essentially a better situation than even the White Sox have had...a team that can afford a $100m payroll, and on top of that, have had an absolutely loaded farm system (as opposed to the Sox). And yet all they've managed to pull off was a playoff birth back in 04 where they were pounded by the Cardinals and which probably consumed Gagne's arm in the process.

 

 

Didn't Dan Evans have a lot to do with the loaded farm system that Colletti inherited??

 

 

 

Bob

Didn't Dan Evans have a lot to do with the loaded farm system that Colletti inherited??

Bob

 

Dan Evans ---> Paul DePodesta ---> Ned Colletti

 

I'm sure he helped, but using the term "a lot" is probably wrong. At the very least, both Evans and DePodesta restocked the Dodger farm system.

Didn't Dan Evans have a lot to do with the loaded farm system that Colletti inherited??

Bob

Logan White

I wouldn't have hired Kenny either and I don't think that's a bold claim. He didn't have a huge resume. He was young and hence not terribly experienced; his highest position was head of player development so he didn't have a lot of experience with major league players. We had at least one person with more experience (Evans) in the organization, not to mention the many candidates from outside the organization. Basically, Reinsdorf loved Kenny and the farm system was very successful at the time so he hired him. I doubt he would've been one of the top 15 candidates for most other teams at that point in time.

 

C'mon greg. We know one of the two books you've read is Moneyball. Podesta was a nobody until that book came out, years after KW was hired.

 

/Sidenote: My favorite Pratt Posts are the ones after he's "done" with a thread.

 

Maybe the average fan didn't know who he was but BP, Rob Neyer, and the like would reference him before the book came out so some people certainly knew who he was. Apparently he hit BA's top 10 GM candidates rankings the same season Kenny was hired, so he was certainly on peoples' radar then.

 

Logan White

 

I think the success Depo ("the stats guy") and White ("the scouting guy") had together reflects well on Depo's willingness to defer to others and refutes the claim that he didn't communicate well with people.

Maybe the average fan didn't know who he was but BP, Rob Neyer, and the like would reference him before the book came out so some people certainly knew who he was. Apparently he hit BA's top 10 GM candidates rankings the same season Kenny was hired, so he was certainly on peoples' radar then.

Kenny was promoted in November of 2000, when DePo would have had all of 1-year of Asst GMing under his belt.

Dan Evans ---> Paul DePodesta ---> Ned Colletti

 

I'm sure he helped, but using the term "a lot" is probably wrong. At the very least, both Evans and DePodesta restocked the Dodger farm system.

 

 

I'm certainly not saying Evans is a great GM but I did a little research and here are some guys Evans drafted who play or played for the Dodgers in 2007. Some are more then just backups here due to injury.

 

James Loney

Matt Kemp

Russell Martin

Delwyn Young

Chad Billingsley

Jonathan Broxton

Eric Stults

 

Not too bad for 2 drafts and no top 10 pick.

 

I won't bother drawing comparisons between this and the Sox farm system because then we'll start the whole WS debate. Aybe we would have won in 05 with Evans maybe not. Maybe in '03, maybe not. But that's all the past. And the honeymoon is ending fast (IMHO)for KW, which led me to writing this thread to begin with. Winning may have bought him a ton of respect and favors but finishing in last place in the AL Central with a $100 Million payroll helps us forget the good old days, especially if it happens 2 years in a row.

 

Wouldn't it be great if the Sox had a productive farm system. Sure I like Fields. But a good farm system may have helped us avoid last place this year and could only benefit next year.

 

 

Bob

Kenny was promoted in November of 2000, when DePo would have had all of 1-year of Asst GMing under his belt.

 

Alright, well I still think the link that I posted pretty soundly refutes the notion that Depo was "a nobody" and was not on teams' radars as a potential GM candidate at the time Kenny was hired.