sox-r-us Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 (edited) Just a few years back, we had Maggs, Carlos Lee and Rowand starting for us....with Carl Everett and Jermaine Dye and Scotty Pod soon joining us too.....and if there was one position that was stocked in our minor league system, it was the OF position with Sweeney, Anderson, Borchard, Owens, Chris Young etc How the heck did we get to this point where now we are screwed at the OF position ad hoping that Carlos Quentin can be our saviour????? Anyone else find this mind boggling? Sorry if this sounds like a useless post, but this has been bothering me the past 2 days or so....how did our strength become such a weakness? Edited December 6, 2007 by sox-r-us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 What happened is things cost $1 and KW only has $.50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted December 6, 2007 Author Share Posted December 6, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 12:10 AM) What happened is things cost $1 and KW only has $.50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 The OF prospects didn't pan out, excecpt the guy we traded. Sweeney still has a chance. Quentin has awesome potential. I'm still happy we got him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBetsy Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 07:10 PM) What happened is things cost $1 and KW only has $.50. So classic. So f'ing classic. Well done, sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Just so we are aware, -Magglio Ordonez's knee was in such bad shape that he couldn't have the surgery he wanted in the United States. -The Carlos Lee trade (indirectly) won the World Series for the White Sox in 2005, because the $8 mill or so that saved went towards, I dunno, whichever tandem you want to match the numbers up with (Duque, Iguchi, Pierzynski? That's about right) -Aaron Rowand brought the White Sox Jim Thome That's what happened to the 3 of those guys that were starting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Sweeney is only 22 or so, which is good. I hope he pans out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Th Sox management talks out of both sides of their mouth as far as wanting to field a contender and having the money to spend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 07:41 PM) Just so we are aware, -Magglio Ordonez's knee was in such bad shape that he couldn't have the surgery he wanted in the United States. -The Carlos Lee trade (indirectly) won the World Series for the White Sox in 2005, because the $8 mill or so that saved went towards, I dunno, whichever tandem you want to match the numbers up with (Duque, Iguchi, Pierzynski? That's about right) -Aaron Rowand brought the White Sox Jim Thome That's what happened to the 3 of those guys that were starting. exactly...and we didnt have viable options to replace them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 We're stuck between gears. We have a very bright and aggressive general manager who really thinks best in terms of the short term. That's an ok way to do things but that is a game of high stakes poker and Kenny doesn't really have the bankroll to play that game. You don't have to invest a ton of money in free agents, you can do that in player development......except that we really don't do that either. While larger market teams draft the Jered Weavers and Rich Porcellos of the world in the first round and go above slot in later rounds for guys like Nick Adenhart we've been drafting safe low risk low reward draft choices so as not to "waste" money on draft talent. That's how you end up with a fatally flawed veteran team with no farm system that can NOT spend its way out of its problems. I think at this point that Kenny Williams should definitely continue in his job but you do have to question that when its time to rebuild-can he actually do it? Clearly we were in that position this past summer and he made the decision to go the other way with it. I love that Mark Buehrle is back but he brought back an aging Jermaine Dye and promised them both that he was going to do high scale renovations this winter. Kenny Williams master plan (flawed IMO) was to grab Cabrera, get Torri Hunter and strenghten this team up the middle with big names that have a solid defensive reputation and have hit in the past. Hunter fell through and now we might have to overpay for Fukodome-the great unknown. We are now an old team with no direction. Jermaine Dye will likely never have trade value during this deal. Jim Thome doesn't really have trade value because there aren't many teams that could use him given he plays DH. So really, your most tradeable future assets are Bobby Jenks, Javier Vazquez, and Paul Konerko. Unfortunately, if we have to move these guys they likely won't bring back a franchise changing player like Buehrle may have. I am looking forward to the 08 season less than any year as a Sox fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Want2Repeat Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 QUOTE(Punch and Judy Garland @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 08:36 PM) We're stuck between gears. We have a very bright and aggressive general manager who really thinks best in terms of the short term............ Good post. I read similar comments at this site today: http://www.southsidesox.com/story/2007/12/5/14413/7622 Can you or someone explain what is meant by drafting above your slot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Well MLB gives a "recommendation" for what you should pay each draft pick. In general its supposed to work like the NFL where the 15th pick makes a touch more than the 16th pick but not as much as the 14th pick. The problem is that the number one overall pick might only be "slotted" for 4 to 4.5 million dollars. When a client has Scott Boras as his agent and he's the top talent in the draft, he might say before the draft that he will only sign for $10 million dollars (Mark Teixera and Mark Prior have done this). Then those guys fall as the teams picking at the top generally don't want to pay that much money given the risk, they don't want to spend that $ in general, and they don't want to piss off the commissioners office. Some teams, namely the Yankees, Red Sox, and recently the Tigers don't give a damn what the office says they should pay the players. The slot is more of an unofficial agreement. The union doesn't really mind this unofficial salary cap because these are not union members. They will not support an official rigid slotting system though. THis scenario is how the best pitcher in the draft can be picked 26th or 27th. We've gone above slot before (Joe Borchard) but we generally fall in line with what MLB says to do. Now, some players like Nick Adenhart are a first round talent but have an injury that prevents them from being picked in the first round. A team like Anaheim pays him 1 to 1.5 million in a much much later round so that he still gets decent money but they go well over that rounds slot to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 (edited) ozzie didn't want big bangers and to this day he still wants fast all around good players like the old twins. i don't think him and kw are on the same page. maggs and lee still haven't done much IMO but net big contracts. lee had a huge year, signed a large contract and kind of fizzled out IMO. fizzled as in he was and will not be the difference to any contending team. he's not a leader. he just is. he's there to get some long dingers, bat .270-.280, and play slow in the OF. Maggs has injury problems, is old, and drives Tiger fans nuts due to his limited range in RF and his tendency to give up on plays. i'm well aware of Maggs' gaudy numbers but it's not like the tigers won a ring like the South Siders did. Maggs, Sheffield...these old farts will fizzle out sooner than later. yes, just like thome and dye. that's why that quentin trade was HUGE. Edited December 6, 2007 by DonnyDevito Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chombi Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 (edited) We had to make moves. We weren't winning with the core of Lee, Maggs, and Rowand regardless of inexperience. They had to go, especially once Ozzie arrived and wanted "his guys". Maggs got hurt and had Boras. Those two things don't really work out for us. His injury was bad enough where Boras wouldn't give us a legit look at his medical info or Boras just didn't want us to take him back. He had to go for the 14 mil price (big money at the time). Lee's deal helped us win a title. A case could be made that Pods was a huge part of that first half in 05' which carried us essentially through the season. We got far enough ahead where even with his injury in the second half we barely held on. Don't forget that bullpen help we got from Luis. Rowand went for Thome. Anderson is a bum and needs to go. Young got us a good innings guy to replace Freddy. Vaz also had tremendous upside which we saw this season. If the division wouldn't have just gone through the roof talent wise, and our team not completely folded offensively to start the season...maybe Javy's performance is more appreciated. I still say it's not that we dealt Young for Javy, it's that we could've dealt Anderson and that is what kills in retrospect. Sweeney I still hold out a little hope on but maybe it's time to assume that .370 ba in rookie ball or whatever was a fluke? That power hasn't come so maybe the Sox were still in the HGH era and expected that development? Just kidding. Borchard hit a ball on the concourse so his job as a White Sox player is complete. I couldn't have expected him to ever do more. Owens I don't quite think was in that category but he has sure do more in proving he belongs then some of those kids. I'd be very comfortable with him in CF if it means we don't sign Rowand. Edited December 6, 2007 by Chombi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 (edited) to this day, i'll always remember brian anderson as i diagnosed him everytime i saw his face on tv...as an overgrown 10 year old who was just happy and satasisfied with playing for a big league club. for some guys, to get to the big leagues is all they'll ever want. brian anderson is one of those guys. i always liked sweeney and think he's going to be halfway decent. time will tell though. of course, this is where i love to bring up carlos quentin. this guy is going to be better than a ton of big names in the game today come 2009 or 2010. Edited December 6, 2007 by DonnyDevito Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chombi Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 to this day, i'll always remember brian anderson as i diagnosed him everytime i saw his face on tv...as an overgrown 10 year old who was just happy and satasisfied with playing for a big league club. for some guys, to get to the big leagues is all they'll ever want. brian anderson is one of those guys. i always liked sweeney and think he's going to be halfway decent. time will tell though. of course, this is where i love to bring up carlos quentin. this guy is going to be better than a ton of big names in the game today come 2009 or 2010. Anderson is a "mental midget". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Anderson is a "mental midget". yeah...he's going to be one of those 30 year olds playing AAA ball. just another AAAA player without many gears shifting upstairs if you know what i mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 -Magglio Ordonez's knee was in such bad shape that he couldn't have the surgery he wanted in the United States. -The Carlos Lee trade (indirectly) won the World Series for the White Sox in 2005, because the $8 mill or so that saved went towards, I dunno, whichever tandem you want to match the numbers up with (Duque, Iguchi, Pierzynski? That's about right) -Aaron Rowand brought the White Sox Jim Thome Nice summary ... but ... Ordonez was not finished like the Sox doctors suggested or KW suggested. He is fine now. The Lee trade saved money. I'll give you that. But Lee was a stud. Rowand brought Thome. The question is could anybody else have brought Thome? KW does not make trades that we clearly WIN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 QUOTE(greg775 @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 02:40 AM) Nice summary ... but ... Ordonez was not finished like the Sox doctors suggested or KW suggested. He is fine now. The Lee trade saved money. I'll give you that. But Lee was a stud. Rowand brought Thome. The question is could anybody else have brought Thome? KW does not make trades that we clearly WIN. Bartolo Colon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(greg775 @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 02:40 AM) Nice summary ... but ... Ordonez was not finished like the Sox doctors suggested or KW suggested. He is fine now. The Lee trade saved money. I'll give you that. But Lee was a stud. Rowand brought Thome. The question is could anybody else have brought Thome? KW does not make trades that we clearly WIN. you're right, all he did was bring a World Championship to the South Side of Chicago. all you are doing is b****ing right now. I hope you realize this. You aren't providing anything constructive at all. Edited December 6, 2007 by witesoxfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chombi Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 you're right, all he did was bring a World Championship to the South Side of Chicago. all you are doing is b****ing right now. I hope you realize this. You aren't providing anything constructive at all. Wow. I agree but I wasn't expecting that. haha. Good stuff. I love the passion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baines3 Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 I'm not ready to give up on Sweeney yet he's still young. We can't forget that when we traded Rowand we got Jim Thome and that gave us some extra power. Pitching is what got us to this point. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 QUOTE(sox-r-us @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 06:03 PM) Just a few years back, we had Maggs, Carlos Lee and Rowand starting for us....with Carl Everett and Jermaine Dye and Scotty Pod soon joining us too.....and if there was one position that was stocked in our minor league system, it was the OF position with Sweeney, Anderson, Borchard, Owens, Chris Young etc How the heck did we get to this point where now we are screwed at the OF position ad hoping that Carlos Quentin can be our saviour????? Anyone else find this mind boggling? Sorry if this sounds like a useless post, but this has been bothering me the past 2 days or so....how did our strength become such a weakness? Don't you mean "mind bottling?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.