Where do you rank Frank Thomas in terms of all-time White Sox players?

[thedoctor]

-frank thomas: stats

-----

-luis aparicio: stats

-luke appling: stats

-eddie collins: stats

-george davis: stats

-red faber: stats

-nellie fox: stats

-ted lyons: stats

-ray schalk: stats

-ed walsh: stats

 

edit, player additions:

-joe jackson: stats

-harold baines: stats

-carlton fisk: stats

-robin ventura: stats

-dick allen: stats

 

 

i just started with some of the white sox’s hall of famers. feel free to add other players who’ve had a significant part of sox history.

Edited April 21, 2008 by thedoctor

[maggsmaggs]

I rank him #1, the numbers on offense are ridiculous. Yeah he couldn't field, but he is a top ten hitter of all-time in his prime, Fox, Appling or Aparacio aren't despite their great D, Frank wins in my book. Tho it's hard to say because i have seen frank play and those guys I haven't=.

[Texsox]

An argument can be made anywhere in the top 5. His lack of defensive opportunities is problematic when comparing him to other players, which will be the issue with Hall of Fame voters, especially from NL cities. But he carried the load for some bad Sox teams, sold a bunch of tickets, and was one of the few players that would stop conversations in bars and in homes to watch him bat.

 

The best batter and one of the top three hitters, I've ever seen.

[thedoctor]

An argument can be made anywhere in the top 5. His lack of defensive opportunities is problematic when comparing him to other players, which will be the issue with Hall of Fame voters, especially from NL cities. But he carried the load for some bad Sox teams, sold a bunch of tickets, and was one of the few players that would stop conversations in bars and in homes to watch him bat.

 

The best batter and one of the top three hitters, I've ever seen.

 

he's the best hitter i've seen until this point, although alex rodriguez is probably pretty damn close (my sox bias is showing). the defense is definitely problematic, though, when you look at a historical white sox perspective.

[knightni]

Harold Baines, Carlton Fisk, Robin Ventura...

[the People's Champ]

I don't have a problem ranking him #1 among that group. It's when you throw in Shoeless Joe, that I start to waiver, but then again I wasn't around to see him play(or most of the others for that matter) so, Hey what the hell do I know anyway??

[knightni]

I don't have a problem ranking him #1 among that group. It's when you throw in Shoeless Joe, that I start to waiver, but then again I wasn't around to see him play(or most of the others for that matter) so, Hey what the hell do I know anyway??

Overall, Shoeless Joe played for the Sox for only like, 4 3/4 seasons.

 

Outside of batting average, Thomas surpasses him easily.

[RME JICO]

An argument can be made anywhere in the top 5. His lack of defensive opportunities is problematic when comparing him to other players, which will be the issue with Hall of Fame voters, especially from NL cities. But he carried the load for some bad Sox teams, sold a bunch of tickets, and was one of the few players that would stop conversations in bars and in homes to watch him bat.

 

The best batter and one of the top three hitters, I've ever seen.

I agree, top 5 for sure. The DH thing is going to hurt him, but I think he still gets in first ballot.

[Texsox]

Harold Baines, Carlton Fisk, Robin Ventura...

 

Some of the same names I thought of and it definitely nails the past 40 years of "Sox" players. And I think you have to have played some minimum of seasons. I respect the hell out of Belle's big season but he just doesn't seem to be a Sox player. From purely a spot in the batting order basis, I would take Frank. Some personality differences and similarities there.

[BigEdWalsh]

In my lifetime, the only guy who could compare to Frank was Dick Allen and that was what? Only two years. Fox and Aparicio were great but not like Big Hurt type-great. It's too bad none of us ever saw Eddie Collins or Luke Appling play. But even if we had there is no comparison to what Frank did for those first seven or so years. In all of baseball history, only a handful of guys can compare so as an all-time White Sox, Frank is an easy numero uno.

Edited April 21, 2008 by BigEdWalsh

[knightni]

I agree, top 5 for sure. The DH thing is going to hurt him, but I think he still gets in first ballot.

Seasons that Thomas played over 49 games at 1B with the Sox: 9

 

Seasons with the Sox: 16

[the People's Champ]

Overall, Shoeless Joe played for the Sox for only like, 4 3/4 seasons.

 

Outside of batting average, Thomas surpasses him easily.

 

Actually it was part of 6 different seasons,one of those being a championship season, and would have undoubtedly been more had he not been banned. But thats beside the point. The topic was "all-time White Sox players", not "all-time White Sox players that played more than four seasons with the team".

 

If the topic is changed to that let me know and I'll retract my vote.

[Texsox]

Overall, Shoeless Joe played for the Sox for only like, 4 3/4 seasons.

 

That point is not brought up very often, thanks for mentioning it. As I posted above, there should be some minimum tenure. An entire career would count, a guy who was traded around I would think 5 years? Majority? Then someone like Bo Jackson comes up. More years with KC, but he was 3 seasons with the Sox and his career ended with the Sox (can't say retired).

[knightni]

Actually it was part of 6 different seasons,

 

Exactly.

 

4 full, 1 half, one 1/4 season.

[Texsox]

Seasons that Thomas played over 49 games at 1B with the Sox: 9

 

Seasons with the Sox: 16

 

Great stuff in this thread, and who would have thought such an over covered topic would produce that?

 

I would have guessed 5 seasons or less at 1B.

[the People's Champ]

Exactly.

 

4 full, 1 half, one 1/4 season.

 

I don't know how I could type this any more clearer for ya. P A R T O F 6 S E A S O N S. You really made my point for me.

[BigEdWalsh]

I would have guessed 5 seasons or less at 1B.

 

It's easy to forget stuff like that. Who the heck remembers that Thome began as a third baseman (not that he did it with the White Sox)?

[knightni]

I don't know how I could type this any more clearer for ya. P A R T O F 6 S E A S O N S. You really made my point for me.

I agree with your point, I was clarifying my own.

 

He was there 6 seasons but was only on the field for 4 and 3/4s.

 

PS - got my movies list?

[the People's Champ]

I agree with your point, I was clarifying my own.

 

He was there 6 seasons but was only on the field for 4 and 3/4s.

 

PS - got my movies list?

 

Ok, so you really don't think he can be considered of the great White Sox players because he wasn't on the team long enough?

 

Whats that say about Herbert Perry?

 

 

Damn it all to hell, I totally forgot about the list, I'll have to get that to you tomorrow. Blasted personal messages.

Sorry

Edited April 21, 2008 by the People's Champ

[witesoxfan]

Overall, Shoeless Joe played for the Sox for only like, 4 3/4 seasons.

 

Outside of batting average, Thomas surpasses him easily.

 

Shoeless career OPS+ 170

Thomas career OPS+ 157

 

Shoeless played in an entirely different era than Thomas has and was the better hitter of the two.

 

This is White Sox players though, and Thomas surpasses him simply because of his longevity with the Sox. That's all that matters to me.

[BigEdWalsh]

I hate all-time comparisons in a way. Simply because things have changed so dramatically. How can we know how Babe Ruth would fare against todays pitching? Did Babe Ruth ever see a 100 mph fastball? What would Frank Thomas (in his prime) have done against 1920 pitching?

[knightni]

I hate all-time comparisons in a way. Simply because things have changed so dramatically. How can we know how Babe Ruth would fare against todays pitching? Did Babe Ruth ever see a 100 mph fastball? What would Frank Thomas (in his prime) have done against 1920 pitching?

 

"Well Sherman, it's quite simple really."

[BigEdWalsh]

Of course, Mr. Peabody! The Wayback Machine!!

[TLAK]

In my lifetime, the only guy who could compare to Frank was Dick Allen and that was what? Only two years. Fox and Aparicio were great but not like Big Hurt type-great. It's too bad none of us ever saw Eddie Collins or Luke Appling play. But even if we had there is no comparison to what Frank did for those first seven or so years. In all of baseball history, only a handful of guys can compare so as an all-time White Sox, Frank is an easy numero uno.

[thedoctor]

I hate all-time comparisons in a way. Simply because things have changed so dramatically. How can we know how Babe Ruth would fare against todays pitching? Did Babe Ruth ever see a 100 mph fastball? What would Frank Thomas (in his prime) have done against 1920 pitching?

 

there is no way to compare the eras, which ultimately skews the argument. ed walsh had 40 wins, a 1.42 era, in 464 innings pitched in 1908. nolan ryan never pitched 300 innings in a year (close at 299 once). who know how they were measuring stats back in the day.