US President-elect Barack Obama has vowed to regain America's moral stature in the world when he arrives at the White House.

 

And one of his first jobs will be to close down the controversial Guantanamo Bay detention centre.

 

He said: "I have said repeatedly that I intend to close Guantanamo, and I will follow through on that.

 

"I have said repeatedly that America doesn't torture. And I'm gonna make sure that we don't torture.

 

"Those are part and parcel of an effort to regain America's moral stature in the world."

 

http://www.itv.com/News/Articles/Obama-vow...-830825001.html

The issue is not one of closing Gitmo itself and never has been.

 

The issue is what you do with the prisoners there.

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The issue is what you do with the prisoners there.

They're dead no matter what happens to them.

They're dead no matter what happens to them.

If they are....and by that I mean all of them...then it doesn't matter whether you close the place or not. May as well just kill them there.

Edited topic title for accuracy.

 

Hmmm. So that’s the plan now? I mean, after giving them trials and lawyers that are usually afforded solely to American citizens. Do we call them reformed and just release them back on the streets? I hope Obama thinks of the consequences of his “morality”

If they are....and by that I mean all of them...then it doesn't matter whether you close the place or not. May as well just kill them there.

Well they cant do that.

 

We try them and one of two things happen. If a detainee is found guilty they execute them, pretty simple. If a detainee probably guilty but we can't build a strong case just let them back out to hang out with their old terrorist pals. Something tells me being in a US detention center for a few years is cause enough for a detainee to be killed there too.

 

I have a hard time imagining too many innocent people at Gitmo, but there are human rights violations going on there and it looks really bad.

Edited November 17, 200817 yr by DukeNukeEm

Edited topic title for accuracy.

 

Huh?

 

He said: "I have said repeatedly that I intend to close Guantanamo, and I will follow through on that."

Hmmm. So that’s the plan now? I mean, after giving them trials and lawyers that are usually afforded solely to American citizens. Do we call them reformed and just release them back on the streets? I hope Obama thinks of the consequences of his “morality”

Some of them have already been found innocent of all charges, we just have no place to release them to because their home countries won't take them after they've been tortured for 6 years at Gitmo. The Uygher people we're holding are the prime example of that.

 

The right way to do this is to establish some sort of legitimate court system to handle these guys. I don't care if it's secret or not, I don't need to know everything. But I do care that it is established in law by Congress (Who has the power to create courts inferior to the Supreme court) and that its decisions are subject to the judicial review of the Supreme Court, as happens with any other lower court that is created.

 

The current administration has refused on both of those counts, because they couldn't guarantee the verdicts they wanted or use evidence obtained through torture if a court was subject to the will of the Supreme Court and the laws of the U.S.

Huh?

Guantanamo Bay is still US held territory.

Huh?

He didn't mean, literally, closing Guantanamo Bay. He meant closing the special prison.

 

He didn't mean, literally, closing Guantanamo Bay. He meant closing the special prison.

 

Ah, my bad.

Hmmm. So that’s the plan now? I mean, after giving them trials and lawyers that are usually afforded solely to American citizens. Do we call them reformed and just release them back on the streets? I hope Obama thinks of the consequences of his “morality”

I think you are misunderstanding what he wants to do. He wants to give them trials, and imprison, execute or release them. A new system needs to be set up to do this. He is simply trying to get them out of their current legal black hole.

 

How exactly he does that is still a question of course.

 

Whoa. I am not necessarily a fan of Gitmo, but I really wish he waited until he was President and presumably receives "the rest of the story". I am thinking, guessing, hoping, that there is more information that Obama does not have that may come into this decision.

 

So basically, I wish he would slow the f*** down and stfu until he has a couple days in office.

Whoa. I am not necessarily a fan of Gitmo, but I really wish he waited until he was President and presumably receives "the rest of the story". I am thinking, guessing, hoping, that there is more information that Obama does not have that may come into this decision.

 

So basically, I wish he would slow the f*** down and stfu until he has a couple days in office.

There is no information that I can imagine being handed to him that would justify his maintaining of an illegal torture facility to hold prisoners outside of U.S. jurisdiction without a fair trial indefinitely.

 

If you want to follow the laws, you simply can not keep them there without a fair trial forever as we've been trying to do. The reason he can say this now is that there's really no ambiguity there. It can not stay.

Whoa. I am not necessarily a fan of Gitmo, but I really wish he waited until he was President and presumably receives "the rest of the story". I am thinking, guessing, hoping, that there is more information that Obama does not have that may come into this decision.

 

So basically, I wish he would slow the f*** down and stfu until he has a couple days in office.

All he has said is that he will close the facility, and get all the current prisoners some sort of justice. I don't think he needs any more story for that to be valid.

 

But, as to HOW he does it, how the new system works, etc., then THAT clearly needs to wait for him to have the full story.

 

I have a hard time imagining too many innocent people at Gitmo

Then you haven't been paying attention.

Then you haven't been paying attention.

You've been hanging out with some pretty bad people if you're at Gitmo.

There is no information that I can imagine

 

And I can't imagine any either, but I leave the possibility open that there could be.

You've been hanging out with some pretty bad people if you're at Gitmo.

 

So have the prison guards, doesn't make them guilty.

So have the prison guards, doesn't make them guilty.

I dont think it really matters how many terrorists we lock up/kill/whatever. It's no use trying to eradicate them, just try to get out of their crosshairs.

Couldn't disagree more, tex. One of the biggest stains on the United States ever, used against us constantly in foreign affairs negotiations and the new guy comes in and stands strong that he will come up with a way to deal with them morally and legally. Every day GITMO remains operating as is, is another disgraceful day to America's reputation.

Couldn't disagree more, tex. One of the biggest stains on the United States ever, used against us constantly in foreign affairs negotiations and the new guy comes in and stands strong that he will come up with a way to deal with them morally and legally. Every day GITMO remains operating as is, is another disgraceful day to America's reputation.

 

Interesting, I agree with your entire post. The only disagreement is the timing. I'd prefer he wait to be President and then begin making decisions, after he actually becomes President and has all the info.

 

I can't wait for him to be the new guy.

 

Bottom line. I prefer a leader who gathers all the facts, or at least as many as possible, before making a decision. WMD in Iraq Y'all prefer a shoot from the hip, manage from the gut type of guy.

 

Damn, I thought I was the Texan