Veal was our left handed specialist. Thornton was our late inning pitcher that usually started his inning against lefties. They were not used the same because Thornton has the repertoire to get both righties and lefties out (or neither, depending how you look at it)

How the heck did Donnie Veal become worth more than Matt Thornton?

 

Contract.

Edited December 21, 201213 yr by Marty34

Contract.

 

I have a more affordable contract than Matt Thornton but no team is going to trade for me.

 

Donnie Veal was minor league fodder last offseason. There's simply no way he has much value at this point. His value has increase, but he's not more valuable than Matt Thornton.

Veal had exactly 13 innings of success. If he were 23 or 24 it would be one thing, but he was a minor league free agent pick up. Perhaps ultimately it will work out as well as the Thornton acquistion, but the jury is still out. Obviously he has some ability, but to think he would land you anything on the trade market is almost as absurd as thinking Ozzie Guillen is coming back to manage the White Sox as soon as he's done collecting money for nothing from Loria.

Edited December 21, 201213 yr by Dick Allen

Contract.

 

So explain to me the Red Sox and Dodgers deal last fall, or the Marlins and Blue Jays deal this winter.

So explain to me the Red Sox and Dodgers deal last fall, or the Marlins and Blue Jays deal this winter.

 

Those are the exceptions would you not agree?

Those are the exceptions would you not agree?

 

So what kind of trade histories are there for 28 year old career minor leaguers who have one quarter of a really good year at the major league level as a lefty specialist?

So what kind of trade histories are there for 28 year old career minor leaguers who have one quarter of a really good year at the major league level as a lefty specialist?

 

Teams don't usually trade those guys.

Teams don't usually trade those guys.

 

So, again, what exactly are your basing your statements on here? I have given similar, or even inferior, relievers signed all over baseball, multiple teams acquiring big dollar pitchers and players, not to mention Thornton's history as a very good lefty reliever for a lot of years.

 

Let's see some evidence.

So, again, what exactly are your basing your statements on here? I have given similar, or even inferior, relievers signed all over baseball, multiple teams acquiring big dollar pitchers and players, not to mention Thornton's history as a very good lefty reliever for a lot of years.

 

Let's see some evidence.

 

It's important to note that you are not paying for those years of Matt Thornton. You're paying for 2013 Matt Thornton.

 

I believe that if the Sox put both Veal and Thornton on the trade market, Veal would net the better return because of their contract situations and 8-year difference in age that favors Veal. I'm not saying you'd get a boatload in return for Veal, but a better return than for Thornton? Yes.

It's important to note that you are not paying for those years of Matt Thornton. You're paying for 2013 Matt Thornton.

 

I believe that if the Sox put both Veal and Thornton on the trade market, Veal would net the better return because of their contract situations and 8-year difference in age that favors Veal. I'm not saying you'd get a boatload in return for Veal, but a better return than for Thornton? Yes.

 

Based on what evidence, exactly?

It's important to note that you are not paying for those years of Matt Thornton. You're paying for 2013 Matt Thornton.

 

I believe that if the Sox put both Veal and Thornton on the trade market, Veal would net the better return because of their contract situations and 8-year difference in age that favors Veal. I'm not saying you'd get a boatload in return for Veal, but a better return than for Thornton? Yes.

 

I will let you believe that, but I believe you are wrong.

Based on what evidence, exactly?

 

On in part, the evidence that more teams can afford Veal than can afford Thornton. In other words, supply and demand.

On in part, the evidence that more teams can afford Veal than can afford Thornton. In other words, supply and demand.

 

So what are the returns for Veal vs Thornton?

I will let you believe that, but I believe you are wrong.

 

What makes you think that?

So what are the returns for Veal vs Thornton?

 

I don't know what the return would be.

I don't know what the return would be.

 

You must be basing this on something?

 

So how can you argue that one would be better than the other, when evidence suggests otherwise? It is obvious that the teams who want to make a splash are willing to pay the price for the top end of pitchers and players. Look at what Boston got in return for all of their huge contracts. Look at what the Marlins got in return for their huge contracts. Look at the contracts that pitchers are signing this off-season.

 

The evidence is right there for you. What have you got to hold up your side?

What makes you think that?

 

Thornton has a proven track record as a dependable and good arm out of the bullpen. There are risks involved, as there always are acquiring relievers, but he has a proven track record. Meanwhile, Donnie Veal acted as a LOOGY and only has 13 innings worth of service time.

 

You wouldn't get anything for Brian Omogross after the year he had and, while he had worse peripherals, the point still stands - there needs to be some record of success before a team will acquire someone like that.

You must be basing this on something?

 

So how can you argue that one would be better than the other, when evidence suggests otherwise? It is obvious that the teams who want to make a splash are willing to pay the price for the top end of pitchers and players. Look at what Boston got in return for all of their huge contracts. Look at what the Marlins got in return for their huge contracts. Look at the contracts that pitchers are signing this off-season.

 

The evidence is right there for you. What have you got to hold up your side?

 

You're comparing apples to oranges. Teams don't trade for lefty middle relievers to make a splash. Where is your evidence of return in trade for 37 y.o. lefty relievers who are owed $5M?

 

You're comparing apples to oranges. Teams don't trade for lefty middle relievers to make a splash. Where is your evidence of return in trade for 37 y.o. lefty relievers who are owed $5M?

 

Teams trade for relievers all of the time. They still bring pretty significant returns. Contracts don't matter nearly as much as they did even a year ago in terms of return, and I showed you that. I am still waiting for you to show me something/anything on your side. Give me some sort of anecdotal proof.

Thornton is simply one of the most valuable lh pen guys on the market. Veal isn't even close. The fact that this is being stated is laughable.

Thornton has a proven track record as a dependable and good arm out of the bullpen. There are risks involved, as there always are acquiring relievers, but he has a proven track record. Meanwhile, Donnie Veal acted as a LOOGY and only has 13 innings worth of service time.

 

You wouldn't get anything for Brian Omogross after the year he had and, while he had worse peripherals, the point still stands - there needs to be some record of success before a team will acquire someone like that.

 

You're not paying for that track record, you're paying for 2013 Matt Thornton. Teams are not going to pay his contract AND give the Sox a good return in trade. Tthat's why Veal gets the better return.

Teams trade for relievers all of the time. They still bring pretty significant returns. Contracts don't matter nearly as much as they did even a year ago in terms of return, and I showed you that. I am still waiting for you to show me something/anything on your side. Give me some sort of anecdotal proof.

 

Show me the relievers who have been traded and those "significant returns".

Thornton is simply one of the most valuable lh pen guys on the market. Veal isn't even close. The fact that this is being stated is laughable.

 

Not as laughable as Jabari Parker going to Michigan State.

Thornton is simply one of the most valuable lh pen guys on the market. Veal isn't even close. The fact that this is being stated is laughable.

 

Which is something everyone other than our resident troll seems to understand.