UCSB School Shooting

[Balta1701]

Didn't answer the question tho. What would you have passed that would have prevented this? 3 month waiting period? Crazy knows no time limit. 2 round magazine? He stabbed half his victims. I don't know what the CA background check entails, but I do know that there are many people it rejects, including lots of recently retired military.

He stabbed 3, possibly making use of a machete. All those were people he had easy access to as his roommates.

 

He then shot 16 others, not counting himself.

[greg775]

I'm just saying, when you hear about this crap on a regular basis, regardless of how tragic, that's just human nature to become desensitized to it.

 

Yes, but that's the point. It may be human nature, but like Mr. Martinez said, "Where is the leadership?" He cited Steve Jobs and his ability to hire bright people who come up with solutions, not people that are in politics today who just bicker with each other and make excuses. What ever happened to trying to get things done and work on solutions? (I realize we're past that point in America; we don't find solutions anymore we just accept what is happening. And I am not a prima donna. I fully realize it's only going to get worse. We are WAY PAST the solution stage. It will probably take another World War, this one DIRECTLY affecting our security to bond together and try to solve issues ever again).

Edited May 28, 2014 by greg775

[Jenksismyhero]

Yes, but that's the point. It may be human nature, but like Mr. Martinez said, "Where is the leadership?" He cited Steve Jobs and his ability to hire bright people who come up with solutions, not people that are in politics today who just bicker with each other and make excuses. What ever happened to trying to get things done and work on solutions? (I realize we're past that point in America; we don't find solutions anymore we just accept what is happening. And I am not a prima donna. I fully realize it's only going to get worse. We are WAY PAST the solution stage. It will probably take another World War, this one DIRECTLY affecting our security to bond together and try to solve issues ever again).

 

Because there is no solution. You can't fix crazy. One side of this issue needs to accept that.

[Balta1701]

Because there is no solution. You can't fix crazy. One side of this issue needs to accept that.

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

[Soxbadger]

Because there is no solution. You can't fix crazy. One side of this issue needs to accept that.

 

I think both sides of the issue need to accept this.

 

Society can exist without the general population owning guns.

 

 

 

[StrangeSox]

He was Jewish and Chinese. Not exactly Aryan Nation material.

 

Read his writings and watch his videos. He makes the racial angle 100% explicit.

[Jenksismyhero]

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

 

Doesn't make it less true.

[greg775]

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

 

Balta, you are on fire today. That Onion story was AWESOME.

[greg775]

Read his writings and watch his videos. He makes the racial angle 100% explicit.

 

Strange Sox, he was all over the map in his LONG manifesto. How do you explain his wanting to kill his 6 year old brother as well because he'd grow up to get girls? He said he had to die cause he didn't deserve that and it was unfair brother would get girls.

[Soxbadger]

It actually isnt true Jenks. Neither side can claim some sort of superiority on the issue. If what you said was right then we shouldnt care if Iran gets a nuke, because as you said "cant fix crazy" so we should do nothing to attempt to mitigate the potential disaster.

 

Cause well, cant fix crazy.

 

Am I right?

[Jenksismyhero]

That's a terrible analogy. Iran doesn't have the bomb yet. We have guns and can own them as a constitutional right.

[Soxbadger]

That's a terrible analogy. Iran doesn't have the bomb yet. We have guns and can own them as a constitutional right.

 

lol

 

Constitution can be changed, so lets not hide behind that.

 

The question is, if crazy is crazy, why prevent any crazy people from doing anything?

 

Like we attacked Saddam because we were concerned he had WMD right?

 

So under your theory we should have let him keep the WMD because we just need to accept crazy is crazy.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

Strange Sox, he was all over the map in his LONG manifesto. How do you explain his wanting to kill his 6 year old brother as well because he'd grow up to get girls? He said he had to die cause he didn't deserve that and it was unfair brother would get girls.

 

I dunno, he was all sorts of f***ed up. But the core of his ideology was the deep misogyny, and his racial and wealth issues seemed to be tied up with that as well.

[greg775]

I dunno, he was all sorts of f***ed up. But the core of his ideology was the deep misogyny, and his racial and wealth issues seemed to be tied up with that as well.

 

I agree with you mostly. Thing is in a 140-page manifesto, which I read, there was plenty of prejudice of all kinds of people to go around. I'd like to know what happened with his original plan of first going to kill stepmom and brother. I'm thinking it may have been as simple as the moron didn't want to make the drive to their town to get it started. Just went with the roommates first. Who knows?

 

And the poor roommates. I didn't quite understand why they all were living together. It wasn't a dorm. It sounds like the killer didn't want roommates. He had money; why didn't he live alone somewhere? Weird. These 3 roommates happen to be living with a f***ing loser moron and their lives are cut so short because of that.

[caulfield12]

So everything 'worked' until you get to your point #5. Then it was either the cops who missed something and/or were lazy and didn't want to do the paperwork, or the parents who didn't go far enough when they called the cops. Perhaps he wasn't investigated more because he was from a rich family? So perhaps 'money' got him out of some of the rules the little people have to follow?

 

 

They nearly caught him.

 

Nobody knows for sure, if it was his mother or someone on the internet that warned the police because some of his youtube postings.

 

7 police officers actually came to his door. He was a great actor in convincing them that everything was okay and calm when he was scared out of his mind they were going to search his apartment and uncover his diary and growing manifesto.

 

 

 

He never mentioned religion or religious beliefs once in the whole manifesto, just that he knew he had to die and couldn't/wouldn't go to prison. In fact, along with having multiple guns, he also had a plan of overdosing on different drugs and then shooting himself to ensure he died. Not sure if that actually happened in the end.

 

As far as the kid brother, the only reason he lived is because of the fear he wouldn't be able to go through with killing his father if he wasn't out on town on movie business and got in the way...as he hated his stepmother Soumaya probably more than even his dad (who he hated for always giving in to whatever she wanted).

 

James Ellis, his best friend, had numerous chances to turn him in and is probably now feeling incredibly guilty about it.

 

 

 

As far as the dating part goes, he was half Chinese/Malaysian, but he was more proud of his father's elite/upper class background dating back many generations in England (even though the money was squandered).

 

He would get upset anytime an African-American, Hispanic or "non-cool" (like himself) kid was dating a hot blonde girl (that was clearly his fetish).

 

In fact, he even hated one of his roommates for sleeping with a girl, but didn't hate him SO MUCH because the girl he slept with wasn't that pretty (and the buy was kind of schlubby/nerdy/akward)...so that wasn't so bad a crime to him.

 

 

He blamed his father's movie (Oh My God?) for flopping and his mother many times for not (re)marrying a multimillionaire and giving him an easy life.

 

He must have started and dropped out of classes 4-5 times but couldn't handle seeing pretty girls with their boyfriends or even knowing they had a b/f (especially a typical jock/arrogant bastard type).

 

 

I think one of the missed points here is how addicted he became to World of Warcraft...in the end, he never finished one real day of work, but lived off all the money his parents and grandparents gave to him, including a BMW 3 series which still didn't get him a girl.

 

 

 

 

 

[caulfield12]

I agree with you mostly. Thing is in a 140-page manifesto, which I read, there was plenty of prejudice of all kinds of people to go around. I'd like to know what happened with his original plan of first going to kill stepmom and brother. I'm thinking it may have been as simple as the moron didn't want to make the drive to their town to get it started. Just went with the roommates first. Who knows?

 

And the poor roommates. I didn't quite understand why they all were living together. It wasn't a dorm. It sounds like the killer didn't want roommates. He had money; why didn't he live alone somewhere? Weird. These 3 roommates happen to be living with a f***ing loser moron and their lives are cut so short because of that.

 

In fact, one of them was accused of stealing $22 worth of candles (from Rodger).

 

The killer actually called the police and made a citizen's arrest and the police backed it up when they found the candles on his roommate's bed (I wouldn't doubt he planted them there). This incident wasn't even mentioned in the manifesto, curiously.

 

He actually wasn't threatened very much by these last Asian roommates because they were geeky and nerdy and socially-akward like him. The only threat they really posed was getting in the way of his collecting all of the bodies after he'd flayed them and decapitated them in his apartment building before he took off in his car and tossed all the heads out of the window of his car in the middle of the downtown Isla Vista part of the rampage...he did at least attempt to run over 4 people, but luckily wasn't able to plow into a multitude.

 

And, if nothing else good comes out of this, all of those women he named (and especially the girls at that sorority house) might pause and think about how everyone treats each other...yes, he was surely crazy and narcissistic (thinking he could will himself a megamillions lottery win).

 

 

 

As for Greg's point about going to a prostitute, he did have a counselor towards the end (Sasha?) he actually enjoyed spending time with, but felt guilty about the idea of enjoying her company simply because she was paid to listen to him. He was too proud to pay for sex, even though he wanted to win over all those beautiful blonde girls with stacks of money and immense beach mansion.

Edited May 29, 2014 by caulfield12

[greg775]

In fact, one of them was accused of stealing $22 worth of candles (from Rodger).

 

The killer actually called the police and made a citizen's arrest and the police backed it up when they found the candles on his roommate's bed (I wouldn't doubt he planted them there). This incident wasn't even mentioned in the manifesto, curiously.

 

He actually wasn't threatened very much by these last Asian roommates because they were geeky and nerdy and socially-akward like him. The only threat they really posed was getting in the way of his collecting all of the bodies after he'd flayed them and decapitated them in his apartment building before he took off in his car and tossed all the heads out of the window of his car in the middle of the downtown Isla Vista part of the rampage...he did at least attempt to run over 4 people, but luckily wasn't able to plow into a multitude.

 

And, if nothing else good comes out of this, all of those women he named (and especially the girls at that sorority house) might pause and think about how everyone treats each other...yes, he was surely crazy and narcissistic (thinking he could will himself a megamillions lottery win).

 

 

 

As for Greg's point about going to a prostitute, he did have a counselor towards the end (Sasha?) he actually enjoyed spending time with, but felt guilty about the idea of enjoying her company simply because she was paid to listen to him. He was too proud to pay for sex, even though he wanted to win over all those beautiful blonde girls with stacks of money and immense beach mansion.

 

I forgot about the beheadings he had planned. Again, I wonder why he changed course. He killed the roommates, then he was going to get people to come in his apartment and torture them and behead them and save all the heads to dump in the street. So his plans changed as far as killing his brother/stepmom and killing many people and saving their heads to dump in the street and horrify people before killing them. Hate to say I'm just glad he killed himself after his rampage.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

lol

 

Constitution can be changed, so lets not hide behind that.

 

The question is, if crazy is crazy, why prevent any crazy people from doing anything?

 

Like we attacked Saddam because we were concerned he had WMD right?

 

So under your theory we should have let him keep the WMD because we just need to accept crazy is crazy.

 

Again, awful analogy.

 

Someone articulate what law could have been passed to prevent this shooting. The only answer is a complete gun ban, which is never going to happen. So continue arguing in hypotheticals if you wish, but down here in the real world it seems to me this particular shooting could have been avoided if the police/family did their jobs. And even then I dunno if that's 100% true. I'm fine with nearly all the restrictions that CA has passed. I'm not sure what else could have been done here.

[caulfield12]

Again, awful analogy.

 

Someone articulate what law could have been passed to prevent this shooting. The only answer is a complete gun ban, which is never going to happen. So continue arguing in hypotheticals if you wish, but down here in the real world it seems to me this particular shooting could have been avoided if the police/family did their jobs. And even then I dunno if that's 100% true. I'm fine with nearly all the restrictions that CA has passed. I'm not sure what else could have been done here.

 

 

 

 

In the end, in our society, we tend to give the benefit of the doubt (innocent until proven guilty)...because we just don't want to believe that there are so many monsters out there.

 

In retrospect, we can blame his psychologist, his parents, some of his best friends (particularly James Ellis, who say many glimpses of his Day of Retribution and simply chose to end the relationship/friendship)....and then he had three contacts with the police.

 

Once, when tried to knock partygoers off a ledge in 2013 and ended up being pushed down himself and breaking his ankle, pushing his initial plans back from Halloween, 2013.

 

Next, when he reported his roommate (citizen's arrest) for stealing $22 worth of candles.

 

Finally, when some of his disturbing youtube rants were online in late 2013 (anonymous tip, he believed it might have been his father or mother or stepmother) and seven police officers came to his door, but they didn't check his apartment or search because there was no probable cause of an imminent threat...plus those handguns were legally registered.

 

He was more concerned about his diary/plans falling into the hands of the police, and that would have required a fairly extensive search.

 

I do wonder how many of those officers (if any) that were called out that day saw one or all of those videos, and, looking back on all of them now, if they missed anything that could have pushed them into action that day. Obviously, a lot of lawsuits against the police will be forthcoming, due to that particular situation and the fact that he escaped by calmly talking his way out of it.

Edited May 29, 2014 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014...and-nerds.html#

 

Interesting article...written by self-professed geek/Asian/former Jeopardy contestant.

[Soxbadger]

Again, awful analogy.

 

Someone articulate what law could have been passed to prevent this shooting. The only answer is a complete gun ban, which is never going to happen. So continue arguing in hypotheticals if you wish, but down here in the real world it seems to me this particular shooting could have been avoided if the police/family did their jobs. And even then I dunno if that's 100% true. I'm fine with nearly all the restrictions that CA has passed. I'm not sure what else could have been done here.

 

If you just to avoid the discussion and always say "it will never happen" that is fine. Throughout history things "never would happen" and then they did. So the first step to ever making a change is to start with "change is possible." Otherwise we would live in a society where slavery was legal, women couldnt vote, with kings/queens etc.

 

But at some point someone has to take their head out of the sand and say "change is possible."

 

Now if you want to argue why you believe that civilians owning guns is a gain for society, feel free.

[Jenksismyhero]

I'm still waiting on what law we are missing that would have prevented this.

 

 

Here's a change I'd make: no media coverage of the killer. Cover the shooting but never make the name, photo or background info of the shooter available, unless he/she is eventually charged and it comes from the trial. When it's a murder suicide, treat it as a suicide. I'd bet a lot of these assholes do this stuff for the attention.

[Soxbadger]

I'm still waiting on what law we are missing that would have prevented this.

 

 

Here's a change I'd make: no media coverage of the killer. Cover the shooting but never make the name, photo or background info of the shooter available, unless he/she is eventually charged and it comes from the trial. When it's a murder suicide, treat it as a suicide. I'd bet a lot of these assholes do this stuff for the attention.

 

Ban guns. No one can legally buy a gun or own a gun in the United States unless they are military/security/police.

 

And I agree with not mentioning the persons name. Which is why I dont address it in any of my posts. I will not help them be remembered.

[Jenksismyhero]

Ban guns. No one can legally buy a gun or own a gun in the United States unless they are military/security/police.

 

And I agree with not mentioning the persons name. Which is why I dont address it in any of my posts. I will not help them be remembered.

 

Again, let's live in reality. Banning guns isn't happening anytime soon, if ever.

[Balta1701]

I'm still waiting on what law we are missing that would have prevented this.

 

 

Here's a change I'd make: no media coverage of the killer. Cover the shooting but never make the name, photo or background info of the shooter available, unless he/she is eventually charged and it comes from the trial. When it's a murder suicide, treat it as a suicide. I'd bet a lot of these assholes do this stuff for the attention.

New legislation has already been proposed in the California Legislature in response to the Friday shooting.

 

One bill proposes a statewide method that would allow police officers to check whether a mentally ill person has purchased a weapon during welfare visits. The measure, proposed by California Senate President Pro Tem Dareell Steinberg, could eventually make it possible for authorities to check in with an individual’s friends and family regarding their mental status.

...

 

The second bill, if passed, would create a law that would make it possible for concerned family members to file a request with law enforcement to obtain a gun violence restraining order. Therapists are already allowed to inform the police if they think a client poses a risk to others, although there is no way to prevent that person from getting their hands on a weapon unless they are involuntarily checked into a mental health center.

Llink