sox-r-us Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Is anyone else scared of Williamson after his 6 ERA with the AL before the playoffs (where he got much much better)? What do we do at RF? I doubt Borchard is still ready.....I believe we need a stop gap at RF and CF until Borchard and Reed come up. I would love it if we could get Juan Gone for RF We could then trade Valentin for most likely Guillen giving us the 2B we need (Guillen), making Willie harris a bench player next year (which is ideal) If we cannot trade PK and/or Koch we will have a very solid line up, though there would be no legit lead off guy (in games where Willie Harris does not play) and there would not be any left handed hitting (except when Nomah plays lefty) Guillen C Lee Frank Nomah Juan Gone Paul Kong Rowand Crede Olivo/Sandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 What's with the hard on for Juan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 The only thing Im worried about is the rotation if we keep Nomar... I mean... I think that beyond Jonny Mark and Loz... its a crapshoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 What's with the hard on for Juan? I hate that f***er... I think we need to see Joe-Joe play this year, get a better picture of his future... Borch has a rocket arm and would be more than solid in right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 What's with the hard on for Juan? C.mon Steff, get with the program. If we get Garciaparra for Ordonez, then obviously we HAVE to pick up Juan Gone. Otherwise, the KW dream of an All-Latino team cannot be fulfilled. If Konerko goes to L.A. for Perez or Mota, etc., look for the Sox to sign Palmeiro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 If Konerko goes to L.A. for Perez or Mota, etc., look for the Sox to sign Palmeiro. I would love to see that happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 C.mon Steff, get with the program. If we get Garciaparra for Ordonez, then obviously we HAVE to pick up Juan Gone. Otherwise, the KW dream of an All-Latino team cannot be fulfilled. If Konerko goes to L.A. for Perez or Mota, etc., look for the Sox to sign Palmeiro. Alrighty.. that works for me. Heaven for bid he actually put together a team with winning in mind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted December 17, 2003 Author Share Posted December 17, 2003 Our biggest problem last year was O production until the Everett and Robbie trade. Even then we had big issues in Minnesota scoring runs Add to that the fact that we lose Maggs O production (which is and will be better than Nomah's next year, especially now that Nomah cannot play every game at Fenway), and the fact that we will lose Valentin's power #s (say what you want but 20 Hrs is huge), we need to replenish that somewhere I have horrors from watching Willie and Rowand last year....they suck and are good from the bench or against the righty (for Willie) or lefty (for Rowand) matchups We get better D and switch hitting capability from the Nomah-Maggs switch but we definitely lose out on the O front If you do not want Juan, and given Everett is not possible to get before June (which means never), what do we do then for O from the CF and RF positions? Wait for the trade deadline? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 What's with the hard on for Juan? If you translate what he did over his 82 games this year to 140 or so, he had some pretty incredible numbers. If we got those numbers from him, we'd be in buisness. If you took his 2001 totals from Cleveland and put them into the White Sox offense, we'd be sick. Not saying we would get them, just that they'd have a huge impact on the lineup....and he'd be cheaper then Maggs, probably cost around $5-7 mill a year tops. Pretty much an impact player. He and Ken Griffey Jr. are in the same boat.....when healthy and 100%, they can chance the game all by themselves. That is a pretty big 'when'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted December 17, 2003 Author Share Posted December 17, 2003 Ok, I just got an email from someone who read on some other message board that this is Nomah's production split at and away from Fenway....this makes me happier....it is not that bad, and maybe we will be ok with the swap in terms of the O production Nomar has 83 HR in 478 games at Fenway - one HR every 5.75 games. Nomar has 90 HR in 450 away games - one HR every 5 games. Hits .338 at home. Hits .308 on the road. Career BA with RISP and 2 outs: .303 Maggs career BA with RISP and 2 outs: .263 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Ok, I just got an email from someone who read on some other message board that this is Nomah's production split at and away from Fenway....this makes me happier....it is not that bad, and maybe we will be ok with the swap in terms of the O production Nomar has 83 HR in 478 games at Fenway - one HR every 5.75 games. Nomar has 90 HR in 450 away games - one HR every 5 games. Hits .338 at home. Hits .308 on the road. Career BA with RISP and 2 outs: .303 Maggs career BA with RISP and 2 outs: .263 Over the last 3 seasons, those numbers are much more disparate. I posted them somewhere's, don't recall where though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Our biggest problem last year was O production until the Everett and Robbie trade. Even then we had big issues in Minnesota scoring runs Add to that the fact that we lose Maggs O production (which is and will be better than Nomah's next year, especially now that Nomah cannot play every game at Fenway), and the fact that we will lose Valentin's power #s (say what you want but 20 Hrs is huge), we need to replenish that somewhere I have horrors from watching Willie and Rowand last year....they suck and are good from the bench or against the righty (for Willie) or lefty (for Rowand) matchups We get better D and switch hitting capability from the Nomah-Maggs switch but we definitely lose out on the O front If you do not want Juan, and given Everett is not possible to get before June (which means never), what do we do then for O from the CF and RF positions? Wait for the trade deadline? I completely disagree with your assessment of Rowand. He sucked in April(because of his shoulder), came on strong in mid-to-late June, and then we traded for Everett which totally ruined any shot Rowand had at coming back. IMO, you give Rowand a shot when he is healthy, he is damn good. I could see a .275 15 75 20 performance out of him with good defense and a solid OBP Willie I agree was s***ty last year, but you still gotta give him a chance. Maybe he'll surprise you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 Over the last 3 seasons, those numbers are much more disparate Why are we not counting 1997, 1998, 1999 and 2000 again? Again, hopefully his wrist is completly healed and his eye improves somewhat when he is no longer in his 20s (if Carlos Lee could learn to walk 75 times in a given year, Nomar should draw at least 50) and we win the trade by getting a better all-around player who has more crowd/ESPN appeal, at 2.5 Mill less AND Scott Williamson. Or, just get me Mota, Miller and Jackson from LA if Valentin and Koch are not traded by then. Wither way works for me.... :fyou Greedy Players Association. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 I completely disagree with your assessment of Rowand. He sucked in April(because of his shoulder), came on strong in mid-to-late June, and then we traded for Everett which totally ruined any shot Rowand had at coming back. IMO, you give Rowand a shot when he is healthy, he is damn good. I could see a .275 15 75 20 performance out of him with good defense and a solid OBP Willie I agree was s***ty last year, but you still gotta give him a chance. Maybe he'll surprise you. Did you guys even look at his splits versus LHP'ers? Pretty good for someone making 300K. Now if Jeremy Reed could only muster 800 OPS against RHP, we'd be in BISNEZZZZ as far as CF platoon. (I don't want to see Rauch OR Wright go to Boston. Give them Diaz) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 As long as Nomar is healthy...I'm fairly confident he will play really good. Yes, Fenway isn't as big, but you also have a lot more field to play with at the Cell and its still a good hitters park, plus Nomar won't have a fenway adjusted swing which effects his road splits, imo. As long as the Sox plan on keeping him after this season and spending hte money it takes to bring in a pitching staff...I'm very excited with this deal....well we know I don't want to see Cotts or a top pitching prospect go though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 As long as the Sox plan on keeping him after this season and spending hte money it takes to bring in a pitching staff...I'm very excited with this deal....well we know I don't want to see Cotts or a top pitching prospect go though As long as he hits from left side only, I'd rather see Valentin at SS at 5 Mill......and get Mota, Jackson and Miller from the Dodgers to along with Williamson. You save 10 Mill in the process as well. Sox won't resign Nomar after 2004 anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 haha. Jason you are to much for me, I love the enthusiam, but we don't even have these guys yet. So lets just take a deep breath and relax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dsavmonster Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 I think your idea could work except if you look at the long term. Nomar doesnt want to play here is the first thing. Secondly he is a free agent after this year. Why not keep mags because he is familiar with us. At the end of the year i think we have a better chance at re siging Mags then Nomar. And about trading valentin. I think jose isnt a bad shortstop. I like having him there. He for the most part is a very clutch hitter. Tell me what you think' :fthecubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 As long as Nomar is healthy...I'm fairly confident he will play really good. Yes, Fenway isn't as big, but you also have a lot more field to play with at the Cell and its still a good hitters park, plus Nomar won't have a fenway adjusted swing which effects his road splits, imo. As long as the Sox plan on keeping him after this season and spending hte money it takes to bring in a pitching staff...I'm very excited with this deal....well we know I don't want to see Cotts or a top pitching prospect go though. I hated this idea right away, just thinking that we probably couldn't keep Nomar after '04. But your optimism changes my whole opinion on the trade. IF we could keep Nomar, I love it. We would definitely have a guy to build the team around for a few years if we could keep him in Chicago. I just don't want what happened to the team after this season to happen next year. We've lost a lot of FA's so quickly this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 You save 10 Mill in the process as well That distinction is imporant because in June (if we are in contention), 10 Million buys us Palmeiro AND One Gone.....to put behind Lee and Thomas. So it's Maggs for Mota, Jackson, Miller, Palmeiro, Gonzo if the Nomar deal don't come through. So we throw in Felix Diaz and Pacheco, who cares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 Why are we not counting 1997, 1998, 1999 and 2000 again? Again, hopefully his wrist is completly healed and his eye improves somewhat when he is no longer in his 20s (if Carlos Lee could learn to walk 75 times in a given year, Nomar should draw at least 50) and we win the trade by getting a better all-around player who has more crowd/ESPN appeal, at 2.5 Mill less AND Scott Williamson. Or, just get me Mota, Miller and Jackson from LA if Valentin and Koch are not traded by then. Wither way works for me.... :fyou Greedy Players Association. We aren't giving as much credence to 1997-2000 because downward trends that continue as a player gets older should not be taken lightly, especially when hopes for reversals of said trends are explained away with reasoning like "maybe his eye will improve dramatically in his 8th season" or "his wrist injury from 3 years ago has finally healed." Without anything else to go on, I'm not putting my eggs in Mr. Hamm's basket. I like your latter suggestion much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 Without anything else to go on, I'm not putting my eggs in Mr. Hamm's basket Like I said, if you can get LA to caugh up Mota, Miller, Jackson, more power to you. "downward trends as player gets older' arguement doesn't quite work if a said player is only 30yo. His chronic wrist meanwhile is IMO a much bigger concern than his age or the semi-random park splits. (btw hitters rave about geat hitting background at USCF, so once Nomar settles in, it should be a problem) So, are you saying that Fenway was not favorable to Nomar's brand of offense in 1997-2000, but become so as he "aged" in 2001-2003? I don't buy it, at least not as much as you seem to. If he is healthy, he is easily in the same class offesnively as Maggs, is a slightly better baserunner and defensive player at a much tougher defensive position....all the while costing 2.5 Mill less and bringing more recogniztion and Scott Williamson with him. If he is NOT healthy, however, then the trade is a wash. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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