Justinsettle

Kenny is the worst. Hopefully the next strike forces every team to have min payrolls of say 150 mil. And if that happens 30 mil a year might not seem so bad.

Unfortunate about Machado- but here is the funny thing. Harper will likely get even more money and will soon sign the all time worst contract in history of baseball. I think 10/300 should have been the ceiling for him and that even an overpay with buyers remorse... but now it will be even worse. Some team is going to be stuck with a guy that can't field and is an above avg hitter getting paid the most in history of the game. Would you want Stanton, Fielder, Price, Pujols for what they are paying them? Maybe Cano, and I would say Arod probably lived up to contracts. Hopefully Sox are officially out on Harper that is a contract that is going to hurt.

I realize who reported it. But again it makes no sense at all for the White Sox to purposely leak that we had an extremely low ball offer on the table. If fact if they did purposely leak that whomever did should be fired because it didn't help at all- see Padres as in the mix.

So back to the White Sox being used- it would be offensive as a fan for the White Sox not to make a run at a high profile free agent that fits on the team. Regardless of if he said he doesn't want to play for us. I assume that Hahn tried his best to sell Harper on the advantages of coming to play here regardless of what he is up against. If Harper had absolutely no chance of playing here he probably wouldn't have met with us. I'm sure if we offered something ridiculous like 10/500 Harper would have already signed regardless of if he wanted to win now because no team is going to come close to such a ridiculous offer. Because we are trying to get both of these guys at the cheapest contract possible it naturally allows other teams more opportunities to match or come in better. So I don't see how Boras used us at all- we made our best offer and pitch and soon we will see if it was good enough. Same with Machado. If anything it would be easier for a team to use the player. For example if we never really wanted Harper and Machado was our #1 the whole time then Hahn should have leaked to the press how we were closing in on Harper to put pressure on Machado to sign. Its all a game. I just don't see how Boras used us because had we offered more of whatever Harper wants he would have already signed.

How did the White Sox get used. Even if that was a known requirement I would expect the Sox to still try to court Harper and give our best and serious offer.

What would be the motivation for the Sox to leak 7/175? That would only bring more teams into the mix to bid for his services. Lozano would have the most to gain by leaking that.

No getting paid what the market determines your worth is not greed. And he shouldn’t take a penny less- in your view is taking less charity?

Also the Yankees are right around 220 million payroll right now- I don't see them adding another 30 mil a year. All this talk about the Yankees is fake news. https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/new-york-yankees/payroll/ for the record 228 mil is the highest payroll the Yankees have ever had.

That isn't greed. They should get every penny that they can. Who is anyone to say that 250 million is "enough" or not enough- the market will decide that. They have a specific set of skills that very few people on the planet have and they will and should get paid for it. Just like the owners have every right to make the maximum profit that the market will allow. What fans think they are worth doesn't matter- what matters is what the owners think.

One thing that this process has clearly shown- the baseball "insiders" are horrible. Heyman should be embarrassed by his reporting in that tweet. Talk about grasping to say anything and when they do its speculation and not true.

Best part about this thread is people basically role playing a salary negotiation...here is my advice stick to your day job. Hahn knows what he is doing. Manny and Harper like 95% or more of big time free agents will eventually sign where they make the most money. It has little to do with winning. One thing I don't get is the reluctance to sign a 10 year deal. Unless they completely bomb the AAV value today will more likely be a deal compared to the "going rate" 5 years from now.

How do you know that we haven’t offered more? The negotiations would probably be the same. Machado and Harper have nothing to lose by waiting as long as possible. None of the teams are really in a position to be making deadline demands unless they basically bid on themselves and grossly over pay.

Is 350 million the going rate for a good but far from great player? Throw out his best and worse season and he averages 3.9 WAR.

Weird statement from his agent. He should be happy that Levine is reporting a lowball offer of 175/7 because that would encourage more teams to jump in.

How are the Sox being used? Both players (as well as most fans) expected the market to be more robust and both would get close to 300 million contracts. By all accounts our offer is no where near that. If it was he would probably sign. These guys are professionals and IMO money is what talks in everyone of these big time free agent signings not “where they want to play”. Of course many good arguments to support that neither of these two (especially Harper) are worth anywhere near what they think they are.

Please stop posting....

I hope the cubs add Harper. Cubbie tears are the best. They will think they locked up multiple World Series but instead they add a huge contract when they desperately need pitching. The cubs don’t need more hitting and worse defense. They need to replace an aging and declining Lester, a bad contract in darvish, chatwood bad, Hammels is old too and pitched lights out for 2 months- but look at his stats in Texas. Haha yes waste resources with Harper and all the stupid cub fans will think it’s great. Intelligent people know better.

The best thing about the Dodger trade is it’s hurting Boras from a negotiation standpoint. I like Harper for the Sox mainly for the marketing aspect. To use forest Gump...his career has been a box of chocolates you don’t know what you are going to get. I think whatever contract he signs runs a big risk of a “bad contract”. I also think cubs are staying out of things this year so that they can go big next year with a pitching heavy free agent class. It really looks like the dodgers are screwing over Boras and Harper and will go a different direction. Harper will be forced to take less money and a shorter term or he will have to sign with the Phillies or us. And personally I’m fine either way- I think our rebuild will go forward just fine with or without. In fact our rebuild will ultimately come down to our pitching prospects imo. Will Dunning avoid TJ, can Hansen find his control, will Cease continue to progress, can Kopech come back, etc.

The cubs had a XFIP of 4.29 last year which ranked 14th in the NL. I think they had a much better win-loss record than what you would have predicted. Lester is declining and will continue to decline. Darvish is anyone's guess. Hendricks is good. Q had a normal year. And Hammels pitched very well for them. Relief pitching was an issue for them all year as the starters didn't get very deep into games. I would say they are need to pitching and not Harper- and that is not blind hatred.

As a Sox fan I hope the Cubs get stuck with another bad long term contract for someone like Harper. He wouldn't really make the Cubs that much better especially since they need pitching and not more hitting help. I love the tears cub fans shed as they have a good team but not good enough to make it back to the World Series. Especially since after 2016 they were using words like "Dynasty". In fact I would say the Cubs are way better off doing nothing this off season than signing Harper to an expensive and long term contract. I feel Theo is way overrated as a GM and for every genius move (like signing Lester) he makes bad moves (Darvish instead of Arrieta, Chatwood, Heyward). And I don't think the Sox need Harper or Machado either- our rebuild comes down to the pitching- will Kopech come back as strong and be a legit #1 or #2 starter? Will Giolito and Lopez become legit #3 and #4 type starters? Cease, Dunning, Hansen- can one of them become a legit starter. Harper and or Machado is just icing on the cake. Although I do agree with others points that Harper brings a certain marketing hype that the Sox don't currently have.

Interesting perspective and thanks for sharing! If you don’t mind me ask g what do you do for a living? I’ve always found that the key to success is hard work and have always been internally motivated to try harder each day. I always tell myself it’s not what you did yesterday but what you do today that counts. I’m a senior year executive sales rep for a fortune 100 company so it could just be the industry. I played baseball up to college and always worked hard but maybe that’s why I’m in sales and not in MLB.

Fangraphs had a good article a couple of years ago about Kyle schwarber. Prospects with major swing and miss issues on pitches in the zone don’t really get better with time. Moncada has major swing and miss issues. Definitely not what I had hoped for after the hype of the Sale trade.

I’m more worried the new owner will move them out of Chicago to a potentially more profitable city. Eventually every franchise gets sold.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 13, 2018 -> 04:19 PM) See Jimenez in 2017 for that. Moncada started out white hot and then fell back to earth. He also didn’t do a great job as RHer against lefties and his K rate was way too high. Bryant is one of the very few that improved his z-contact rate. Hopefully Moncada can too. Unfortunately it just doesn't happen often.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Apr 13, 2018 -> 01:37 PM) Jack, I like you bro, but this viewpoint is insanity. Here is one example that took five seconds to think of. I’m sure there are dozens of others I could think if I spent the time. Jose Altuve 2011 (21): 234 PA, .654 OPS, 80 wRC+ 2012 (22): 630 PA, .740 OPS, 102 wRC+ 2017 (27): 662 PA, .957 OPS, 160 wRC+ Yoan Moncada 2017 (22): 231 PA, .750 OPS, 104 wRC+ And the HUGE difference being Jose Altuve- even in 2011- made contact with balls in the strike zone 96% of the time- his career contact rate on balls in the strike zone is almost 94%. Moncada is 76%. I want Moncada to be great one day but the odds are really stacked against him. Major swing and miss issues- just like Schwarber. And that stat historically is pretty much set after 300 AB- it doesn't change much. Like DNA...Maybe he just needs glasses. But the Z-contract rate of pretty much anyone that has a long career in MLB is at least 85%.