HollywoodTim

Can someone post the full list? That twitter link cuts off.

Don't want him. We can sign or trade for a Major Leaguer with this kind of ceiling pretty easily. At #11 go with upside. I will take Crochet or Kelly instead.

This guy sounds good also. I like the prototypical RF power bat, prototypical LH power bat, bat speed and ability to make adjustments combination a lot. I think this is my choice for a position player.

Fulmer is listed on Baseball Refence at 6'0" 195 lbs and he looks more like 5'10" or 5'11" to me. Crochet is 6'6" legit and listed at 218. I watched the video HOFHurt35 posted and the guys in it say they've heard things about him going as high as top 5. This is my guy also. I hope he's still there at 11 and we take him, and I hope the silence about him is because we don't want anything leaked.

I'm not sure how adding Colas is in any way a bad thing, especially at the amounts listed, and while knowing what we seem to know about our organization, i.e. we will never get the kind of prospect the Yankees just signed because we aren't going to start hanging around the playground soliciting children.

Viciedo was also supposed to be like Panda Sandoval. if we got that kind of player for a tiny amount of "use it or lose it" money why complain at all? Another thing: IIRC Dayan was the guy who would have gotten us Dunn from the Nats instead of Edwin Jackson. And while hindsight says that was never a good route to travel in, the point is that, if that is true, another MLB GM thought he had more value than Dan Hudson or Edwin Jackson back then. That could have gotten us a pretty good player in a trade regardless. Even if Colas turns into a player we can't really use -- like our version of Miguel Andujar, who I personally think blows anyway -- at least we will have something we can trade for value to some team somewhere.

I think maybe that is the strategy for some teams, but in our position, I think we should be looking for the type of player to slot ahead of Kopech, Cease, Giolito, good Reynaldo, etc. rather than behind those guys. We already have so many SPs with frontline potential that it is kind of foolish to me to use such a high pick chasing a guy without so much ceiling, because odds are that at least one of that group will fail or will be much less than hoped. I think the pathway should probably be to either draft another rotation ace or draft a guy we can trade for one. I'm really hoping Crochet and extra cash but it seems like all the mocks are pointing at that not happening.

Longenhagen also put a 35 FV on Jimmy Lambert and rated Yermin as the #8 prospect in the system. I think it is a lot easier to teach body type and work ethic than it is to teach skill. Put Colas around guys like Robert and Moncada and see how he develops. Because Colas is a prospect with some ability, I hope we sign him. We always need more quality prospects. Also, we should feel pretty good about his chances to play at the AA level immediately, and maybe also play well enough at the AAA level in the same year as his debut. Most of the players who are going to get these high 6 and small 7 figure bonuses are never going to make it that far anyway. And think about it, it's about the same cost as dumping the buyouts on Wellington and Nate Jones.

Back in 2005 I was a member of WSI. I remember somebody posted a thread or a link to a thread in 2005. Roger Clemens' mother was dying and said something like Shoeless Joe Jackson was with her when she was dying and said that he would go against the White Sox in the World Series that year. I did a quick google search and couldn't find the link, but found a few other things: https://jlbgibberish.blogspot.com/2005/10/ghost-of-shoeless-joe.html https://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/15/sports/baseball/clemens-pitches-hours-after-mother-dies.html https://www.wenatcheeworld.com/sports/clemens-start-tribute-to-mom-astro-ace---/article_497603bb-2091-588d-9ca4-00551d1df8ee.html That was a spiritual/magical sort of year for many reasons. I remember when I was very little I had a penny, I think, that listed all of these similarities between the assassination of Abraham Lincoln and JFK, and it was eerie. There are always odd series of concidences to point out in a 162 game season because there are so many games and so many innings and so many plays, but 2005 was eerie almost as far as how it all played out. As an aside, my wet dream as a fan broadcast booth would be AJ and a fluent English-speaking version of Freddy Garcia and/or El Duque. If there are any people I would love to have explain the game of baseball and its situations to me, it would probably be those guys. I loved watching AJ and I loved watching those other guys pitch. What they could do to the hitter was pure psychology. I remember watching Saturday afternoon baseball on FOX after Freddy was traded to the Phillies, and the Phillies were playing at home, Freddy was pitching, and he was getting all the Phillies fans scared because he was walking guys. He walked the bases loaded, and I knew what he was doing, and I knew he was going to load them. I also knew he was targeting a specific hitter that he was going to get out in a certain way, and he did it. Not only did that 2005 club win a WS, but it also had some of my favorite Sox players of all time on that team. Even 1 year of El Duque for instance was more enjoyable than several years of most other guys. I'm not nostaligic about players like Dan Pasqua, Warren Newsom, Don Pall, etc. Another thing I think about 2005 is a lot of "what if" and the "alternate universe" HOF stuff. If the baseball HOF for example was really all-inclusive of the sport the way the basketball HOF is, IMO El Duque is a shoe-in, and Jose Contreras probably is close if he doesn't get in. Tadahito is a Japanese baseball HOFer. What AJ and Mark did is IMO HOF worthy just given how difficult it is for anyone to have the kinds of careers they both had, but I know if they ever have a chance it'll have to be through the veterans committee, and Mark is the only one to have a chance. But Frank was a first ballot guy, and I think there are alternate universes where Paulie has a shot at the Hall if he doesn't have that horrible 2003 season and doesn't hurt his wrist so much. I also think Jermaine Dye might make the HOF in some alternate universe where he doesn't foul the ball off his shin in Oakland. Then there is Freddy who went down with shoulder surgery, and pulled a Mike Mussina / Paul Byrd sort of late career overachieving resurgance, albeit brief. But Freddy's intellect on the mound and his pure stuff was enough IMO to get him in the HOF in some alternate universe. I just think overall that there was a lot more talent on that team than people understand or will give credit for. The well-publicized issues Bobby Jenks had with his back really cut short what had been up to that point a brilliant relief career. I think that if there is a Hall of Very Good, there are a lot of 2005 Sox members in it, and overall, a lot of flat-out smart baseball players who played really hard and knew the game very well, and absolutely got the most out of their ability. There's no doubt Scotty Pods was a quality pure hitter, and this surprised a lot of people including me, but was more evident in his second stint in Chicago. Also Aaron Rowand is a guy I have heard on commentary, and he is a very smart baseball guy. Aaron will probably stick in the game as a coach etc. as long as he wants. Then there is Uribe, etc. All-around it was a great team that IMO would stack up and fight tooth-and-nail against any historical team. Scrappy and smart, and sneaky talented.

I wonder how much of a discount they could get on Crochet at 11. The Sox handled Sale excellently, and with LHP they have overall done a very good job over the years all things considered IMO. If they think they can make him a starter, Crochet and a savings is a no-brainer to me. I would love to see that where the savings are put to use in the third round and maybe the 4th if there is space left. The 5th rounder is probably going to have his back against the wall and will sign for slot anyway. One question, which picks do we get back if we can't sign a player?

He did rise through the minors up to AAA. Most players don't get that far. I am just curious about him. He's been written off, etc., but anyone with back issues is going to have some problems. I am wondering what he looks like after having his issues dealt with. I am rooting for him.

I wish we could trade picks. They had better add that into the new CBA. Imagine if we could get Crochet by trading down to like 20 and picking up a 3rd rounder or something. Also imagine how much better the rebuild could have gone if we had been able to trade marginal role players like Xavier Cedeno etc. for like a 7th round pick and the bonus slot, which could then be used to go over slot to buy some projected top-100 talent out of a college commitment. Maybe trade 3 or 4 middle relief types and then sign all college seniors for the minimum and come away with an extra 2nd round or even high first pick or something.

I am curious about an update on him. He was a guy who steadily rose up the MiLB ranks yet his stuff seemed to kind of plateau and then regress as he got to higher levels. But he's still a young player with a lot of minor league experience and I would bet he's a much better pure pitcher than he ever was before as a consequence of all the development time he has had. Last I read IIRC he had back surgery, or something like that, back issues and some medical procedures. I am curious about him and whether his stuff can come back enough to pop back up on the map as a legit 6th starter, as a #5 ceiling guy but a true "extra starter" depth piece. Are there any updates?

I doubt the 2003 Sox would have coasted to anything other than the beach/golf course after the year. There were way too many holes. D'Angelo Jimenez's defense gave way to Robbie Alomar's batlessness. It's one of about 2-3 seasons that legitimately cost Paulie a shot at the HOF. The Sox actually got lucky their pitching wasn't worse because Loaiza was not supposed to turn out that way. They were trying to develop their young pitching, and arguably, relying on Loaiza as a FA pre-ST was a bigger mistake, but it just turned out great. Everett in CF, Lee in LF, Maggs in RF... who is going to catch the baseball in the playoffs? And then despite all the offense, during the infamous reign of CorpseBall we lost our fair share of games vs. the lowly Tigers like 1-0, 2-1, etc. I think the Tigers lost something like 100 games that year but they managed to totally shut us down on days when our starters shut them down. Oh and also, Loaiza faded late in the 2nd half of 2003 and that carried over until his trade for Jose. IMO that 2003 team was an all-around a bad team with a few great performances on it. That defense wasn't going to win anything and the starting pitching would have fallen apart in the playoffs. We played in a horrible division and reaped the benefits. I think the area where that team was most dangerous was the back of the bullpen, specifically Damaso Marte and Flash Gordon. Even Billy Koch being so bad didn't matter too much given how excellent Marte and Gordon were. Personally I think the 2006 and 1994 teams were the most talented. The 2005 team is probably (and will probably always be) underrated in terms of its talent level. That team was 3rd for me. I do think the 1994 team could have won it all.

That list looks crazy stupid to me. And after having actually seen Jimmy Lambert pitch I think he is waaaaaaaaaaay too low at 35. Ahead of him are tons of guys I'd trade straight-up for Lambert were he in another organization. Yermin at 8 and as a DH? The only way to justify ranking him so high is if you think he can catch. But that's not even as bad as Lambert at 35. Lmabert below the likes of Zach Thompson and Bryce Bush after the year he just had? Really? In the write up it says that if Lambert hadn't had TJ he'd be Pilkington level. Really? That is a horrible mis-evaluation. There's a bunch of that in here. Basabe at 22, and 6 spots below Luis Gonzalez even after the year Gonzalez had? And how is it that a RP like Heuer can be so valuable such as to rank as high as 9, but James Beard makes this list at all? There are a shitload of other RPs in this system that should rank above him in that case.

^That said, the Sox still could have sent Fulmer for Shields instead of Tatis. But even still, the big kicker on Tatis is this, and I mention it because I have still never seen anyone mention this on this board since that trade: Tatis was purely the "cash considerations" part of that deal. Had the Sox offered to take the majority of Shields' deal over along with Erik Johnson, that deal gets done immediately. The only reason Tatis was necessary to include was due to the amount of cash the Padres were picking up. It's the Reinsdorf special. Cash Considerations is always his favorite player.

One theoretical advantage the Sox would have drafting Crochet vs. Fulmer is that there is a good chance they would be able to still trade Crochet for excellent value 1 year after drafting him. With Fulmer, the Sox basically had to have him develop because of how his timeline coincided with the Sox rebuild. With Crochet, the Sox would have the benefit of scouting him internally for a year or so and then turning him around in a deal if they don't like what they see enough to keep him. While the high school pitchers can be more tantalizing, I do think the college pitching route not only makes more sense because of the Sox timeline and the virus, but also, I like how it would kind of encourage the team to make a quick decision and either push him toward the big leagues or sell before he loses too much value.

I am so glad Harper did not sign here. His fake personality is just so annoying. I can never forget the hair flip thing he did after homering against the Cubs in the payoffs. It was like 3-2 and the pitcher just set him up and he had to swing, and the pitcher lays a meatball right down the heart of the plate, and Harper hits a slam. Most veteran hitters in the league probably hit that pitch out, but when he does it, he has to make himself into an Herbal Essence commercial of fake-ass celebration like he's Fabio and he just switched somebody to margarine off butter or something. I hate that guy. If I was a pitcher I'd just throw at him because he sucks. Wasn't he also the pro-babies in the dugout guy who kissed LaRoche's ass for all that stuff? I'm glad he is no where near this team.

I get that the Sox would not want to take on more money, But the point here was that, at the time, Maybin and Miller were considered much higher ceiling prospects. People still apparently thought Miller could be an ace lefthander and Maybin could be a perennial All-Star CF. Fields had just hit a bunch of HRs in the Majors and both Danks and Gio showed promise but looked more like mid-rotation types best case scenario. The Marlins were going to take the best talent offered regardless. There would have been other teams willing to take on Willis if the Marlins wanted to do with him what the Indians just did with Kluber in a separate deal. The point I'm trying to make though is really about Crochet. He's more of the Miller type of prospect than a Danks or Gio type of prospect, and that could help us in a number of ways. Eventually there is going to come a point where the Sox are going to be willing to trade their top prospectI support the pick.

But I wonder if by "like him" they think he's something like 80% likely to be David Eckstein, 10% likely to be better than David Eckstein, and 10% likely to be lesser than David Eckstein, do they "like him" enough to surrender a near-MLB ready prospect with a solid floor and a significantly higher ceiling, who still ranks in the top-100 in national consensus, even if ranked much lower than Madrigal? Teams probably like everybody who looks like a sure bet to play in the Majors, and also, baseball people probably do not want to ever formally discount a player with such baseball smarts and natural instincts, nor would they want to publicly discount a guy with the speed + defense + extreme contact profile. But I wonder how many of these people who "like" him actually "love him" enough to give up something else they also "love."

The final offer for Cabrera was Fields + Danks + Gio Gonzalez + Sweeney from the Sox for Cabrera. The Tigers IIRC sent 6 prospects headlined by Miller, Maybin, and a 100mph reliever. I don't buy the Willis contract stuff. That's all unfounded speculation. Willis at the time had IIRC 1 year left. Detroit not only took him, they extended him. If Miami wanted to dump him they could have, and there was no reason for Detroit to extend him if he was really bad. Willis had a down year but it wasn't until after the extension that he really tanked.

I would be very happy with this pick. I also love it when there is a downside as a late inning reliever. Remember how Miami liked the Tigers offer for Miguel Cabrera better than the Sox offer. The Sox offer was a great trade that would have helped the Marlins a lot. The Tigers guys were all busts until Miller finally hit as a reliever, after having been DFAd and passed around a bunch of times. But the point is that there was some pedigree and major upside with the Tigers guys and that is why they got Cabrera. I think there is a nice chance with a pick like this that he either works out as a top-end starter, or as a top-end reliever, or as the centerpiece to a difference maker. I also generally trust this organization with pitching prospects in the draft far more than with hitters.

Mine: -Vaughn is absolutely a Major Leaguer. He's my #1 prospect in the sense that he's the most likely to be a well-above average hitter for many years here. I think he's considerably less risky than Robert even though Robert is an uber prospect. Vaughn just strikes me as a guy who is still a very good player 10 years after his MLB debut, and I wouldn't feel the same way about Robert ATM. -Madrigal should be traded ASAP while he still has his believers. I was a supporter because of what I had read, but after seeing him, yeesh, get this guy out of here while he still has value. I would try to get a prospect who is lower ranked but has a much higher ceiling than this. Overall, 2B is probably the easiest position to fill in the infield with a quality player, and it seems every year in FA there is a short-term option available. Really, 2B can be filled by both 2B and SS players, plus a few 3B around the league. I would not move Yoan off of 3B but I would have no problem targeting DJ LeMahieu in FA or someone else later on. Maybe in 2 years SD will be looking to eat 30% of Machado's contract to move him. It won't be long before they try to get out of that deal. I'm just throwing some names out there. The Rays have a couple of guys they probably are looking to trade, and I don't mind giving Mendick a shot at 2B at all. In fact, I would not be at all surprised if Mendick ends up being a similar or better player. Madrigal is the proverbial hitter who "goes up to home plate with a copy of the sun-times." -Cody Heuer is a big leaguer already. I personally expect Marshall to go back to being about what he was before, and I could definitely see Heuer stepping into that spot and serving as the setup man of the future very soon into the season. I think he's made the case as First Man up. With an expanded roster I think he's on the team simply because he's one of the few guys with promise who will throw enough strikes. -Burdi has some stuff but not enough control to make a difference. He will need quite a bit more time I think. That's all I can think of right now. I didn't catch all of the games. I was hoping to get a look at Stiever and Bernardo Flores specifically. Maybe in ST#2 I'll get the chance. What are your opinions?