HollywoodTim

Congrats to Madrigal on the 4 hit game. I hope he is a .300 hitter.

You are not drafting experienced MLB players in the draft. The Rule 4 draft isn't Free Agency. Nobody really knows what they are getting which is why typically you shoot for ceiling and get burned, rather than shooting for floor and risking being burned when the player with the higher ceiling you thought hard about but passed on, makes it in another organization. In fairness to MLB execs however, there is no ability to trade down in the draft. It kind of forces execs to do things at places they might not want to in a perfect world. Maybe if Madrigal is the guy you like most at 4, and you aren't crazy about it, you'd otherwise trade down to pick up an additional asset.

Good game from Madrigal. I agree compeletly with Harold here. I think he's David Eckstein. I hope he's better. I understand that most players drafted anywhere do not make it, but I think they did miss the chance to develop a higher ceiling player. If there's a real difference maker available, then I would trade him. Otherwise, what's done is done, and he's here now, so I hope he's an above average everyday player.

Hey that's 2 popups into the OF. Baby steps.

Love the managing here by Ricky. That was a great spot to build Heuer's confidence and Ricky knew it and put him in. More than anything else, this is the kind of stuff a good manager has to do: trust his good young players and put them in positions to succeed. Between adding Heuer to the club and DFAing Herrera the Sox are really making some sharp moves with the pen, looking to the future.

Lots of guys fall off in the middle of what should be their primes after starting HOF tracks. The Sox have Eloy, Yoan, Robert and Vaughn that I could all see starting that HOF track. Vaughn's overall game might have the best staying power to accumulate seasons and counting stats. He would be my vote as a result but he's not on the list.

You need to put Vaughn on your list. And you should make it MLB career instead of White Sox to take the money / contract stuff out.

The worthiness of promotion has been compared, which is exactly what I was referencing in my post. You didn't read what I said or you can't comprehend. So I say again, please, repeat the fourth grade.

Exactly what I said. I omitted the implication of the low ceiling but the rest of my post supplied that as context so I didn't think it was necessary. But yes, when considering the amount of hype applied to such a low ceiling player, even with the high floor, I can't think of anyone since at least Lance Broadway that has been so unnecessarily overhyped as Madrigal has been.

You think the comparisons I make or those comparisons which I have been accused of making, make a bad look for me. But in actuality, your fourth grade level of reading comprehension is the real bad look, and it's one you will unfortunately have to live with.

I also agree on Vaughn being the best hitter in the org. He won't get to prove it until next year but he will be that guy IMO as soon as 2021 and as late as 2022. If you want to talk about players who are or who have recently been **really** MLB ready in all aspects of the game, but who are or were being held back in Schaumburg/minors, Vaughn is the guy at the top of the list and there's a big gap between him and the next guy. And the next guy is Dunning anyway.

I didn't follow the draft the year Madrigal was selected so I didn't really have an opinion. What I had read about him made me think a lot like Dominikk85 right up until February or so if this year. But once I saw him play my opinion completely changed. That said, I hope he develops enough pop. I don't care much about the HR totals though. It's really about being able to drive the ball into the gap and hit them off the wall, etc. I want to see hard line shots around the diamond and I don't really want him hitting the ball that much in the air. He'll be an easy out that way. I think Merrifield is really pie-in-the-sky ATM but I would love it if that happened. I think the Sox should have him on the trade block. I'm really wondering about how long before the Pads are willing to eat a bunch of money to make Manny Machado go away. That will happen and my guess is that the rumors start this offseason. Madrgial's not the worse guy to have. He should outperform his salary for his first 4 years in the league and that leaves flexibility elsewhere, but if there is a long-term solution in RF or an ace SP available, he's absolutely in the trade offer for me. And even if it's like a 4-5 year solution type with some bad money on the end of it, but in the form of a real difference maker like a Machado, I would make that deal also. The Sox really don't need to save a lot of money during the period of time where Nick Madrigal is most likely to ourperform his salary.

I think overall Robert has been good enough in the box to hit leadoff at least on this team, but I'd rather he be in an RBI spot. I don't care though. More PAs is better. This team really doesn't have a true leadoff hitter.

No.

Whatever. Go swallow Yerminnows.

I think he's Eckstein also. He'll eventually be a fine #9 hitter and a guy you can win with but he's not a #4 overall kind of talent IMO. I honestly cannot think of another Sox player who has been hyped so hard even in spite of the height of his ceiling since Lance Broadway. I remember hearing people talk about Broadway like he was going to be a #2-#3 SP at worst. But even then Broadway took a long time and never really got that level of hype. Even the hype on the prototypical toolsy and/or power-hitting prospects I have understood better because of the potential ceiling even in spite of the floor. But Madrigal is the most hyped lower-floor player I can remember at least since Broadway. IMO I think Zach Collins will be a better player when it is all said and done and I'm really not a huge Collins fan, though I believe he is improving and will be better than many are giving him credit for.

The comps are situational comps, and they have been all over this board, because of the service time issues. Obviously the Sox played the service time game because why not? There are reasons to do that aside from believing you need the extra year because of how good the player will likely be and/or expensive to retain. The Sox played the service time game most likely because they want a longer look at him before offering him real money. In Bryant's case, holding him down seemed egregious to many people. The guy was destroying the minors and looked every bit like a franchise cornerstone, future 3/4 hitter on a championship team, future top-level salary earner, etc. OTOH Madrigal is still nowhere near MLB ready with the bat, and there are very good, baseball-related reasons for keeping him down. IIRC Madrigal slugged .411 in the minors last year. Hitting MiLB pitching through MiLB infields to a .411 SLG% , especially when your legs are inflating that number rather than deflating that number, is no sign of an MLB-ready hitter. The Sox could have held him down much longer if they wanted to and no one should think it is egregious. If the Sox were really intent on winning in 2020 at every position they likely would have brought in a FA 2B or traded for one. There are/were enough Starlin Castro, Schoop, Villar types out there to be had, and if they did do that, nobody should have felt that Madrigal was so far along developmentally that he was seriously being "blocked." I've watched this guy all spring and summer. He reminds me of Leury when he first came over from Texas, or Kevin Smith's first go-round. I think about Hawk talking about going up to the plate with a rolled up copy of the SunTimes and can call his IF groundouts before they happen like I'm Nostradamus.

Sox won yesterday but offensively their showing was pathetic. Bubic had little control of his FB and you could sit on his change for a while because that was all he could get over. He had 2 pitches and he was routinely making mistakes everywhere with both of them. Jose looks like bad Jose and Yoan was popping everything up. Engel's bunt attempt after a 3-run HR in his last AB, given the control issues, and to what end? To put a RISP for Nick Madrigal? What a completely idiotic move. That must have been Engel doing that. Even Ricky isn't that stupid. With Gio G on the mound (GG / GiGi or GiGo IMO) I think we'll need 6 or 7 to win.

If TA isn't good enough to play SS then he needs to go somewhere else. Personally I think he will improve. I'm not sure about the slip yesterday why that happened.

IMO this thread should be written like HERRERA DFAd!!! (Madrigal called up)

Agree. The defense makes the team better, and Leury over Nicky Delmonico is an improvement both ways. Delmonico has had about a zillion hittable fastballs right over the plate this year and he's been late on all of them, fouling them off. I'm not sure I've seen such a display of constantly fouling off hittable pitches before making an out. That said, Madrigal is showing still why his bat is nowhere near MLB ready. The constant Bryant comparisons are puke-worthy. This guy is no Kris Bryant, no way shape or form. Service time doesn't really matter except for arb issues. Is baby Madrigal going to be good enough to pay in his 3rd arb year? We shall see. I think right now he looks good enough to get an arb offer as a first year player but maybe not as a second year player if he doesn't improve with the bat.

this is exactly what i am talking about. you are piling on too also taking my comments completely out of context. never once did i say it was creepy to ask women questions. following the players wives around is.

ignore me and i'll ignore you too if they ban me then they should banm the other posters baiting me into this by taking my comments out of context and assuming that a general dislike for an overly immasculine baseball announcer is somehow some form of hate, homophbia, bigotry, stance against women, etc. and all of the other nonsense posters like you are talking about it's not like your opinions are going to be useful for anything. hey by the way i'm glad we drafted a guy you don't like. i bet he's great and you will have to suck on that one.

it's actually neither it is uncomfortably feminine and creepy when you start following other peoples wives and start asking them questions etc

You will learn that certain posters habitually ignore the context of posts they quote and then in their responses will proceed to make their own generalizations which fit their personal viewpoints and actually accuse *you* of doing what they are doing