The Hawk

Really? Have you not even taken a glance at what is happening across baseball right now? Are you really saying that home runs are not important in the scheme of baseball? I guess all of the focus on launch angles, exit velocity, spin rates and all of the crap that pitchers are doing to try and defeat the home run hitters of the day is just not happening right now? Guys like Madrigal are becoming a dying breed right now in baseball. I'm not saying that it is for the betterment of the game BTW but it is the truth. The game has changed big time. Seams are shrinking, the ball is slick, players are all turning into body building freaks. As a former pitcher and pitching coach, I actually do not like the new game as it stands.

Whiffs? Ever imagine wh they don't have on their team if they signed the two of them? For the record, I wanted them to sign Wheeler but for the "right money". I also wanted them to trade for Q and not sign Gonzalez.

Do you think that a statistical guru from the U of C could be a manager or GM of a baseball team?

I'm not rearranging anything. I said at the onset that I am throwing out the 2020 season because it was a season where he was a season where he got very sick. Same thing that I said about Moncada. My argument also was that I consider right field to be a power position as most major league teams do. And there were a lot more than 15 outfielders listed on those baseball statistical references. Many teams had 2-3 guys that split a lot of time at that position during the year. Take this little tidbit and consider it. Mazara basically played right field pretty exclusively for the Texas Rangers and was paid "X" dollars for 4 years. During that same time, many other teams paid 3-6 players to play right field for them. Take Aaron Judge for example, they paid him a lot of bank certainly but they also paid more bank for the other bunch of right fielders who played that position for them for those years. Same thing for the other teams. Now then, with all of this silliness aside, the issue is still the same. Will the White Sox sign Mazara to a new contract or not? I think that they will. Don't know what form the contract will take but I think that like someone suggested earlier, that they might put together an incentive laden contract. He is only 26 years old. He battled through an illness in 2020 and showed signs of coming back at the end of the season. We will see what happens.

I agree. Well said. What I will also say is this. There are some things that a human mind does automatically when it comes to taking a look at something and assessing its validity and/or worth. Before the advent of what evolved as Sabermetrics, there were minds that took a look at the player and factored in things like walks, being hit by a pitch, hitting with two strikes protecting a runner trying to steal a base,etc. and without a statistic in front of them that added those additional factors up and put a value to them or it, used their BRAIN to evaluate the worth of the player. When you think of it, baseball is no different in this aspect than many other ways that companies evaluate the performance of their employees.

Funny stuff. I know what I read and I am right in what I've argued about Mazara. A couple of guys have said that I was wrong. That, to me, shifts the burden of proof on them, not me. I am not going to waste my time pulling off gobs of data, reformat it to be shown on a meaningful chart, and display it on a board like this. These stat boards that are out there do not lend themselves to what I would call requests of specific extracts of information for an individual player or players. Instead it requires manual extraction which is time consuming and tedious. Then you would have to format the results into a format that makes sense to describe. For what? To "prove" whatever I already know is correct to someone who is challenging me? Nope. Not going to happen. If those guys want to do this crap, let them do the work Guess what, they won't do it because this is nothing but a game with them. They'd rather sit back and challenge shit that they don't like to hear and make the other guy jump through hoops and not the other way around. But since you jumped into this fray, you do it. You prove that Mazara over the years of 2016-2019 wasn't an above average power hitting right fielder in the American league. It should be really easy for you to do, right? Or is this just some "meaningless RANT"?

What makes you afraid to acknowledge BA, HRs, and RBIs as important statistics in measuring good hitting performance? It's fine to construct other statistics as a means to focus attention on areas that can be improved, or in evaluating performance, or in defensing a player. What I do not understand, though, is the apparent zeal on the part of some people to mock the established metrics like BA, HRs, RBIs Slugging %age, OBP, etc. And for anyone to think that a smart baseball man cannot used the established metrics to evaluate player performance and rate players, you are being pretty obtuse.

Prove it. What was the average home run production of American league right fielders for the years 2016-2019? Mazara had an average of 20 home runs during that time frame. You will find if you wade through this stuff that there really are not a lot of American league right fielders that hit many home runs while playing that position regularly. nd I also noticed that some teams get forced to play guys out there that already have a DH limited defense type in left field and in an effort to bring another bat, place him in right field(see Cruz in Minnesota). And now Betts is in LA so the right field position in the AL has gotten generally weaker especially since Judge gets hurt a lot.

Don't be a dork, man. YOu are bouncing all over the place with these inane statements of yours and I do not like looking shit up to prove you wrong which you are in respect for above average power numbers for right field. You said that Trumbo had more home runs from mid August of 2018 through 2019 than Mazara did from 2018-2019. He did not yet I wasted time digging that shit up. From now on, I am done with doing that. You've got an opinion that Mazara is worthless. The facts are that he is at least an average all around right fielder and hitter. Waste someone else's time.

This is a sports board of White Sox fans. No need for name calling. We are talking about right field and you brought up Garcia having more assists than Mazara. Well, Leury played a lot of right field for the White Sox and Mazara had more assists as a right fielder. As for trophies, I talked about them in jest about the importance of stuff like Range Factor and Inside Edges metrics. But in truth, baseball does recognize hitting performance in a way with the awards that it gives for hitting performance in the form of Silver Slugger awards which are Silver Bats given to the outstanding players at their respective positions for a given year(including National League pitchers by the way). I don't think that they have been awarded yet this year but my guess is that Jose Abreu will get the award for 1B and Anderson will win it for Short-stop. Don't think that Mazara or Garcia will get many votes this year:)

You say that but obviously you are the one who is wrong. 79 home runs over a four year period is above average for any major league position including right field. And hitting 79 home runs by the age of 25 years old is really unusual for any major league player.

Look, Balta. I just looked up Leury Garcia and you are wrong once again. He has a total of SIX Right Field assists over six years of play. Mazara had 7 alone in 2016.

I doubt that. BA and OBP are still very important. Its funny. I was on another board a couple of years ago and a lot of the stat geeks there told me how unimportant RBIs were in the game. Yeah there is a new emphasis on home runs but its still the same game and you need baserunners to score runs still.

Balta. Quit embarrassing yourself. Seriously. Trumbo hit a total of 17 home runs in all of 2018 and 2019. Mazara hit 39 in the same years.

No, they aren't just looking at batting average and home runs. RBIs are looked at as well as OBP. And a right fielder is an important defensive positions as well. You might want to consider that Mazara does have a good number of assists in his four seasons which is a testament to his arm strength. He does have a very strong arm. But southsider, batting average and home runs and RBIs are still the make or break stats for measuring especially the baseball positions which are counted on to deliver runs. That is just the truth of things.

Nah. Too much work to pull data off, format it and copy it on a board like this. I don't have to "prove" anything. I know that Mazara had good power numbers over the years 2016-2019 for a right fielder. You prove he didn't. That is the way I roll:)

Never one any. Find them yourself.

I guess that you can't answer my simple question. I asked who enters this data for range factor and the "Inside Edge" stuff? As for as my not being able to "handle" these "stats", that's pretty funny since I had a statistics emphasis in graduate school. I can "handle" statistics just peachy, my friend. I also can handle the fact that many(not all) of these advanced stats aren't worth a crap as a bottom line. Also, tell me when they are going to give a huge trophy for best Range Factor or "Inside Edge" stuff like they do for the best batting average in the league, most home runs, or most RBIs? Since you have decided to start the insult wagon my way, I will defer on my end. have fun with your stat sheets my friend:)

You're wrong about his home-runs. Once again, I said the American league. I quickly looked up the home run stats for years 2016-2019 and Mazara was listed in the top 50 on the entire American league for years 2016-2018 and in the top 65 or so in 2019. He also was listed as the 9th -12th leading home run hitting right fielder among every player who even played right field for a game for the same period of time.

Who enters the information into the computer regarding defensive set, The shift employed, who the center fielder is. Did the ball hit off the side wall of the box seats. Etc. Etc. And who rates the difficulty of the catch to be made by the right fielder? Also when the center fielder calls for a 50-50 ball or 40-60 or 30-70 ball and waves off the right fielder, does the right fielder get gigged for it? Who in baseball right now is responsible for providing the "raw data" that spits out this Inside Edge Fielding Stats and Range Factor? Is it the same kind of weinies who enter all of the subjective data into the PFF data base for the NFL, namely some geeks in Great Britain paid for looking at game films and rating the blocking of Offensive linemen the tackling of defensive line backers, the pass coverage of corners and safeties, etc? That system sucks BTW and is done by people who never played American football a day in their entire life:)

Anyone can take stats and massage them any way that they want to. Some guys on TV have made a career of that for themselves. More power to them. Tell me something. Do you actually think that a major league manager or general manager makes a decision on who starts in right field for him based on Range Runs and something called Inside Edge Fielding Stats? or does the guy take a look at his routes to the ball and his reaction off of the bat? And does the same guy want to know if he can field a ball down the right field line and throw a one-hop strike to 2nd base? How about being able to hold the runner at second base on an average fly ball to right? I will guarantee you guys this, No one in major league baseball makes day time decisions on who does or doesn't play right field based on the stats that you brought up. Most of these kind of things if used at all are used in salary arbitration and to some limited extent in trade talks.

I was wrong about his batting average. He averaged about .265 not .275. But I was right about his power numbers being in the top 3rd in the AL. I did say the American League also BTW and the 4 year period was 2016-2019 thank you very much. There were only 7-8 Al right fielders with better home runs and RBIs than his and he still was in the top 3rd of batting average. You are really embarrassing yourself with your opine about Palka, Tilson and Cordell having better numbers. If you want to focus on fangraphs as your Bible for baseball, pray away, brother:)

No sense arguing about this any more. There is no one stat that directly measures a players ability. Not when the measurements themselves are heavily subjective especially . As for "Range Runs", that one really makes me laugh. How is that stat adjusted when a outfield goes into a no doubles set and allows anything off the bat to fall to the ground in front of them? How about when a outfielder goes balls out for a ball and dives and catches it versus the next inning when the same guy misses his dive and the ball goes to the wall for a triple instead of a single? My point is that a lot of stats are better than others and when you are talking about outfield play, they are mostly useless.

If you want a treat, go take a look at the statistics of the American league starting right fielders for the last four years. It is pathetic over-all. YOu may think that 20HR, 75RBI, and .275 BA is bad but it really is in the top 3rd of Al right fielders. Think about it. Who are the excellent AL right fielders right now? Hell, last year, the best one went to the Dodgers in Mookie Betts. It really is position which is a very weak one. And right field, my friend, is not a position that you can just plug anybody into. The guy has got to have some speed. He has to have a strong throwing arm. And he plays in what historically been considered a power position. What is also funny is your statement that I somehow think that he is "as good as you make him out to be". All I have said is that he is an average major league right fielder. That is all. But clearly, there are a bunch of you guys who view him differently. That's okay but your opinion isn't supported with facts. He has been an average four year power hitting right fielder and is still 26 years old

Did you think that a guy who averaged 20 home runs and 75 RBIs and hitting over .270 with four major league seasons under his belt at 26 years old is a bum? Very few players in the history of baseball have done that well in their baseball careers by the age of 26. There are minor league guys all around baseball who never made it to one game in the major leagues by age 25 years old. I know this. If Mazara just returns to his average production numbers that occurred in his first four seasons, he will start for at least two thirds of major league teams over the next 5 years. Thinking that he is some kind of baseball bust based on a silly season like he just had really isn't good logic.