LDF

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 09:03 PM) I think defensively, what they do is going to be dictated by what kind of bat they can bring in. If they bring in Upton, that could mean Avi gone, LaRoche gone, Melky LF/DH, Trayce RF. we just don't know. As you pointed out, They did address the defense about as much as they could during the season, so I really don't think they now find it unimportant. They don't need spectacular defenders everywhere. Just make the plays you are supposed to make, and with the Sox pitchers, that should be fine. You can't win when you don't score, hence even when Saladino or Beckham was at 3B, Alexei awoke from hibernation at SS, Sanchez took over for Micah at 2B, and Trayce was in the outfield, they were a pretty good defensive team but still didn't win more games. I will say one of the most fun White Sox teams ever was the 1977 Southside Hitmen, and they were about as awful of fielding team as could be. But they mashed, coming off a year where they couldn't hit at all. while this is a good point, this whole improvement on defense and players who are conscious of the word, that chg will not happen overnite nor in one or two season. i think there will be a subtle chg in the way they will look at players who can play responsible defense and good offense.

QUOTE (professa @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 10:04 PM) Sign Justin Upton to a 7/147M deal (MLBTR projection) Trade Avi Garcia+ for Brett Lawrie Sign Alexei Ramirez 1/7.5M Sign Matt Albers 1/2.5 Payroll: 135M (Current=~95M+10M(Arbitration) + 21(Upton) + 7.5(Alexei) + 2.5 (Albers)) Lawrie included in arbitration figure. I think JR can be convinced to spend more given what's coming off the books next year. Might as well go all in. VS RHP VS LHP 1. Eaton CF Eaton CF 2. Melky RF Melky DH 3. Abreu 1B Abreu 1B 4. Upton LF Upton LF 5. LaRoche DH Trayce RF 6. Lawrie 3B Lawrie 3B 7. Avila C Navarro C 8. Alexei SS Alexei SS 9. Sanchez 2B Sanchez Bench Saladino Navarro Trayce Shuck Rotation 1. Sale 2. Q 3. Rodon 4. Danks 5. EJ Pen 1. Robertson 2. Jones. 3. Duke 4. Albers 5. Petricka 6. Putnam 7. Jennings very well thought out.... the only problem in your project / mock i have is EJ and no backup sp to use in case .... same thing as last yr, depending on hector and he bomb, the yr before with the other pitcher i think paulino and he bomb.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 08:12 PM) I'm on the fence here but while Cabrera would fit the patchwork mold, desperation move for 2016 that many are afraid of, I don't think a move for Upton would be the same, he'd be helping us for many seasons beyond next year. So even if you don't think the Sox will contend next year, Upton can still help in 2017-2019 when we'll presumably be in a better position to contend. big problem. if this is all the sox do, if you think last yr the owners were pissed for the lack of fans coming out, they will have an heartache this yr. they want instant rtn on their investment.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 08:14 PM) It's always jury-rigged with these guys. Can't do anything properly, ie develop their own players. Gotta buy somebody else's castoffs and act surprised when things don't work right. The roster is like a '73 Pinto with a $1000 set of tires. BUT CHECK OUT THE MICHELIN TIRES!! FUZZY DICE!! lack of direction. the react in stead of having a game plan.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 09:00 PM) 14th in MLB in team ERA 28th in runs scored It's not that hard of a concept to figure out why the GM would be talking about offense and not defense to the general public. Now, does the defense need to be improved? Absolutely, there's no denying we stink at several key areas. But how about we get capable hitters that don't suck in the field 1st? To me defense and baserunning are things good teams improve on to get over the hump and deeper into the playoffs once a pitching staff and capable lineup have been established. We still need to figure out the later part or defense is irrelevant. If you're an AL team and you can't even score 4 runs a game it won't matter if you have the greatest defense ever. And besides, not paying Alexei $10M was a 1st key step in improving the D. It's obvious and known that we are trying to upgrade both 3b and RF, so if we can get guys who are at least average defenders at both of those spots + an improvement over Alexei at SS (saladino is already a huge upgrade) we all of a sudden don't have a horrible defense already. in the fa's there is really not much unless the sox pays for it, they would have to go the trade rt and that too may cost a lot, not in money but in prospects. would the fan like that, let alone the owners.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 07:37 PM) This is the disconnect making me crazy with this team. - The sox have a great pitching staff - They have a bullpen full of groundball pitchers - They have a bunch of bad defensive players that require great offense to make them valuable. They have been terrible offensively. I am tired of writing that we need to make our strengths an elite strength, but I do feel we are far more likely to build a contender by making our great staff an elite staff with great defense. I believe that creating an elite staff, adding a single bat will make a huge difference. Instead, we are continuing to undermine the effectiveness of our pitching staff by adding (HOPEFULLY) above average bats with hopefully average defense. To me, it just seems like even if we are capable of getting an above average offense in one offseason, it will come at the cost of dropping our staff out of top 10. you make a valid point, and the counter is this, while other teams does get players to fit a certain style of play the team does, in other words they know the direction the team is going, the sox will always and i mean always go to where they can get a player for as little as they can... meaning salary. this been going on since the late 90's .... and the main players in this crap shoot is still at the helm of the team.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 05:14 PM) iit all depends on whether they truly intend to compete and can put together a roster where you can really don't have to say everything has to go right for the team to win. I do think LDF is accurate when he states the team never seems to be fully committed all in any year. They are at a certain price, but it doesn't appear they would be willing to take on a huge loss if things went wrong. That's fine, it is a business., and these days you don't have to win 98 games to make the playoffs most seasons. Trading those guys is dangerous, and I think the extra year and an alternative to spending $200 million, should make their price tags around peak right now. If the Sox are bad again in 2016, and then they trade these guys, JR needs to clean house. ref the bold. many thanks. for an example miami, now i been watching the maimi situation for the last 2 weeks. the owners are in a pissing contest with Ozuna-of, and dee gordon will not sign a favorable team friendly extension with the team as of sat. so they was to move 2 players. with those 2 players, is my assumption, without the cupboard being somewhat bare, they just might do an under the table rebuild .... if that is the case ozuna and gordon and prado and fernadez being avail for major prospects. hence the price of this morning with the dodgers as a point in case.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 06:13 PM) I think there is a crucial re-adjustment happening in expectations re: pitching value in trades. Prior to the offseason heating up, we saw a lot of "why would they give up a bunch of prospects if they can just sign x". In addition to that, there was a lot of "piching can be found now, hitting is the bigger commodity". Now, the numbers are in, and its clear pitching is still as valuable as ever. Except, so far, it seems in the face of that, GMs are still unwilling to give up equal value for pitching, but instead are trying to make a dominant bullpen. That worked for the Royals, but the Yankees put together a great bunch last year and finished out of the playoffs. I wonder at what point the shoe drops and some big packages for pitchers go down. an excellent... excellent topic. for me i will use one example. per mlb trade rumor this morning, the situation with cueto - sp, he or his agent stated that a contract that offered to him this weekend was at 20 per and the going rate for the amount of yrs. now without any embellishment, it was reported that that was too low of a salary. so in essence the perceived worth of pitchers are really higher than before, i would almost say way higher. they are taking advantage, lets say in the trickle down value of price and zach g. signing this weekend.

QUOTE (Doc Edwards Shot @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 05:56 PM) I think the Sox will keep Sale no matter what their situation is: rebuild or Band-Aid. Sale has become the face of the franchise now that Paulie is gone. Tickets have to be sold and a team needs at least one recognizable All-Star to do it. I could be wrong, but I'll have to see it to believe that the Sox would trade Sale with his contract. excellent point

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 05:29 PM) How do you know it's Kenny Williams? What if Jerry Reinsdorf is telling them to field a team that will get fans to the park? JR might be the one preventing a full scale rebuild because he doesn't want to lose any more money with empty stadiums. the owners=kw. so it is synonym with each other.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 05:04 PM) 1.) Signing a guy to a nine digit contract is "the most White Sox move ever"? 2.) Upton's defense is average by UZR and above average by DRS. I remember scouts being fond of it too though I can't say that definitively. 3.) Do strikeouts matter when he'll improve big weaknesses with his power and OBP potential. 4.) KW does like Upton a lot. only when his light twr pwt is one sided. decent avg, homerun power and then the K's can be forgiven esp if it is within the realm of the avg. a true power hitter will have plenty of K's.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 05:04 PM) Plus he is under control for an additional year. and he is a fa in 3 yrs

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 03:45 PM) But the ones that are 25 years old and signed to long-term, below market rate contracts are what you HOPE the prospects turn into. Those guys are the epitome of "building blocks." and in essence i can't fault that point but there is one however, that line in the sand of when prospect should debuting in the mlb has always been moved, so the results that many are expecting to see may chg's from situation to situation. it is as you said, it is hope that the org see results, but my point is they are all considered prospects until they make it to the bigs and preform.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 03:34 PM) Yes, but the vast majority wind up finding other fields of work. There is no reason at all to replace Adam Eaton with a prospect unless you really like when the White Sox aren't very good. and i agree, i was just making a point.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 03:44 PM) I'll guess that it's Holmes and Verdugo to Cincinnati. wow, cincy just fleeced the dodgers.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 04:25 PM) And is signed for 6 more years at a little over $40 million total. This is what you build a team around. Prospect worship sucks. above avg to great players starts off as a prospects.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 04:13 PM) At some point in time, be it this year, next year, 5 years from now, if the White Sox want this sustained success that has been mentioned, they are going to have to hand out some really huge contracts, and be prepared for some of them to not quite work. at the same time make some trades that also may not work out ... they got to crack some eggs or so as that cliche goes.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 04:00 PM) He traded his 2 best trading chips and got zero impact back. The A's are going to be bad for a while. and as long as the team stay within a certain amount, ref salary.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 03:56 PM) Too bad they can't get that one back! i hated that idea and then trade from the beginning, but i can't fault the logic.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 03:53 PM) Wouldn't shock me if we start to hear the Sox are interested in Cueto. Hawk gushed about him last year, saying he'd love to see him on the Sox. oh god noooo i, he thinks 20 mil a yr is too little for him per mlb rumors.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 03:47 PM) Yes on MLB Network last night. But our own, RaBBit had it before Nightingale mentioned it. but you just said you don't listen to these things unless if comes from the FO.... a little inconsistency here... uh

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 03:47 PM) It really is. nightingale is usually really good with White Sox stuff, and when Hawk shows love for opposing players you can pretty must rest assured their name is somewhere on the wish list. i mean this is a nice way but nice insight in reading between the lines. i am not that smart.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 03:44 PM) I think we should know by now that there's always some money available that the Sox don't talk about. In the past, I can remember some of the folks on this board with inside info saying that if the right player was available and they fit what the Sox were trying to do, they could find the money. That being said, I'm not sure that a high-priced OFer would be the type of guy they'd find money for. I think they'd spend elsewhere first. good call but i do seeing this to be a move that kw and owner would do, to compete with the northside in the media war.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 03:41 PM) Just keep in mind teams aren't going to say we have a boatload of money to spend. thwt would destroy them negotiating and with the public because they would either have to spend that money immediately or be considered cheap just worried about how much they can pocket, you know, like the rest of us. you make an excellent point. can't fault that. question, when was the last time the sox went with a payroff of 140+???? a 130+???

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 03:40 PM) They would lose the comp pick. many thanks i jst wasn't sure.