NUKE_CLEVELAND

QUOTE(EvilMonkey @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 09:54 PM) Have a look at his alleged victims. http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/took...amsvictims.html I was going to post those pics but I didn't. Dont look at them unless you have a strong stomach. Consider yourself warned.

That was awesome. I damn near wet my pants laughing. LMFAO!!! Sad part is that goofy, profane little, whatever the hell it is, has more sense than these assholes who file lawsuits to stop people from celebrating Christmas. "Tis the season to stop being such a whiny little b****!!!"

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 06:15 PM) But Inmate 32455 doesn't want to miss the new episode of Lost on Wednesday :headshake If he does he'll probably file a lawsuit. :rolly

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 06:15 PM) However, if everyone in a fire dept is Christian (a particular one) than they can simply have an Xmas tree. Regardless, I think people that b**** about things like this are losers that got nothing better to do (and they ruin things for the vast majority of people). BRAVO!!!!!

QUOTE(Texsox @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 05:59 PM) But, I'd have no problem taking all that stuff away and just making the guards work harder. Just lock em in their cell 23 hours a day. That'll make their jobs plenty easy.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 05:29 PM) Since when does what god think come into play as to the government. The constitution isn't the 10 commandments. Don't we spend an inordinate amount of time trying to separate the 10 commandments from government as it is?

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 04:27 PM) Nice to see that the apple doesnt fall to far from the tree. Tookie's Son wanted for rape of a 13 year old Time for the son to take up writing childrens books telling people about the dangers of sexual assault. Saw this one coming a mile away. So not only did he murder 4 people, start a street gang which has killed thousands but now hes got a son running around raping women. If they catch him before midnight can they strap him down next to daddy?

QUOTE(WSFAN35 @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 03:22 PM) HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA congressmen cover something up, laughable. congressmen involved in scandal, laughable. do you really believe all the bulls*** propoganda you are fed? The only one feeding me anything is APU with his wild conspiracy theories.

QUOTE(sec159row2 @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 03:13 PM) CLEMENCY DENIED!!!! HELL YEAH!!!! LETS TERMINATE THIS SUMb****.

QUOTE(juddling @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 01:06 PM) Back on to Tookie's case...he continued to run his gang for 7 years while behind bars....no deterrent there. If he's in the ground....guess what.....he isn't running a thing except a food bar for the worms.

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 12:25 PM) 122 since 1973 -- which is really 122 too many. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=6&did=110 Their main page has exonerations by state, year and race. I can no longer believe it works after McKlesky v. Kemp -- A study of death sentences in Philadelphia found that African American defendents were almost FOUR times more likely to receive the death penalty than were people of other ethnic origins who committed similar crimes. Over 80% of people executed since 1976 were convicted of killing white victims, although people of color make up more than half of all homicide victims in the US. A defendant who can afford his or her own attorney is much less likely to be sentenced to die. 95% of all people sentenced to death in the US could not afford their own attorney. In 1987, McCleskey v. Kemp, a Supreme Court case brought forth the famous Baldus study that revealed facts that proved the following: "(1) defendants charged with killing white victims in GA are 4.3 times as likely to be sentenced to death as defendants charged with killing blacks; (2) 6 of every 11 defendants convicted of killing a white person would not have received the death penalty if their victim had been black; and (3) cases involving black defendants and white victims are more likely to result in a death sentence than cases featuring any other racial combination of defendant and victim. This case was defeated by a 5-4 vote given the reason by Justice Powell: "McCleskey's claim, taken to its logical conclusion, throws into serious question the principles that underlie our entire criminal justice system." Just google the Baldus study and you'll get the details about how he came to his conclusions. As long as we have a system that is highly arbitrary in who receives it along with a blatant race/class based bias, there should be no faith in a system that can take a life, especially under these dubious circumstances. I'd sit here and type more but just look around http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=1328 for info. And I forgot: "The idea that murder victims' families are best served by continuing the cycle of violence is something that I consider to be not only a lie, but criminally negligent. You lie to victims' families when you tell them they're going to receive closure if they participate in the process and witness the execution of a human being. I've witnessed the execution of a human being. This is not an abstract for me. I promise you, it isn't going to heal anybody. I'll never recover from it. It's incredibly irresponsible to allow victims' family members to witness executions." --Steve Earle Black people do get sentenced to death more often than whites. That much is obvious and is why I have been saying over and over again that the the death penalty needs to be imposed in a uniform manner. Murder 1 = Death Rape = Death No class distinction, no racial distinction, none if it. You get convicted of certain crimes, you die.

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 12:03 PM) Plus, you know as well as I that Congressmen can be bought and sold. You show me without a shadow of a doubt where US Congressmen were bought off to cover up something that might have happened there then you have something.

QUOTE(Steff @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 11:39 AM) Yea.. like child molesting Priests. Dont even get me started on those guys. A lot of these clowns should be right next to Tookie.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 11:35 AM) Do y'all seriously believe if we started executing people daily and immediately, the gang member would throw down their weapons and stop committing murder? Would they go get jobs at McDonalds? :headshake No but they damn sure would think twice about their sociopathic lifestyle.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 11:34 AM) Nuke, I think here you're oversimplifying things by conflating justifying a crime with methods of preventing crime in the future. Studies have shown overwhelmingly that the tendency to commit a crime is linked directly with things like living in underpriveledged homes, not receiving quality educations, having broken families, etc. These things happen in places where people lose their jobs...and while these things in no way justify going out and killing someone, the numbers are out there which show conclusively that if you cut down on the severity of these problems through whatever means, you cut down on the violent crime rate dramatically. There is a big difference between justification of an action and understanding where the action is rooted so as to try to prevent it in the future. Yes, people who go around shooting people are psychopaths, and you'll get no argument from me on that. But that doesn't mean that there aren't ways to work to prevent the creation of more of those sorts of people. I agree with what you're saying about trying to help out these communities economically. Maybe if the money we wasted on the failure that is the welfare state in this country had been better spent we wouldn't have these problems.

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 09:36 AM) Nuke, I'll take the word of the soldiers that were actually there and the members of the IDF who testified that they got the orders to attack the ship they knew was American (read the damn article) over some Jewish hacks trying to justify the attack on a US ship because they didn't want us to see the mass graves of soldiers that they were illegally killing during the war. So let me get this straight. The US House of Representatives, US Senate, CIA and the Navy itself, all of which conducted investigations concluding that the attack was not deliberate, are just "some Jewish hacks". LOL! Thats a new low, even for you.

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 10:20 AM) If we remember the original idea for why prisons were made it was...and say it with me...::drum roll:: REHABILITATION. Clemency is just for the purpose of a person who, if left alive, would not be a clear and present danger to the public. If he is locked up for life in prison, he is not a clear and present danger. There is no need to execute him, except for primal and banal bloodlust. Killing him doesn't bring back those who have died & all it leaves is one more corpse. And why not respond to my other longer post (not just you but anybody here). I never understood the reasoning behind life imprisonment. If you want a guy off the streets for keeps then go out and put a bullet in his head. If someone is such a s***bag you want him out of circulation permanentely then he was obviously a burden to society as a free man why let him continue to be one living off the taxpayers in prison. Save rehabilitation for people who commit less serious crimes who actually have a chance to be productive.

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 10:02 AM) YAS, don't mean to call you out -- I'm just making a general discussion and happened to quote your post when I wrote. YAS, I think you'll agree that capital punishment is only treating the symptom rather than the root cause of the disease. We're only decades from the Supreme Court case of Brown vs Board (actually had the opportunity to meet one of the kids from that decision...pretty cool experience) So we've got a generation of minorities who have first hand experience in legal segregation. Add on to that that we've got a generation who lived through Jim Crow and the animosity to integration -- getting low quality education because of that...And now -- I don't know if you've heard of Jonathan Kozol's new book (he's an education advocate that wrote "Savage Inequalities") "Shame of the Nation", we've got the return of quasi-apartheid in the nations' schoolrooms. The playing field is by no means level (and let's not even get into a discussion of the extralegal methods used by the FBI via COINTELPRO to murder/destabilize progressive movements that looked to begin to fix these social problems -- and please, don't demonize the BPP because it is quite a well known fact that Panties Wearin' Hoover was quite the racist & reading the FBI memos, that is the purpose for the COINTELPROS against those organizations) As Dr. King said (and I'm paraphrasing here): It is an insult to tell people with no boots to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. And from Bulworth (1998) Sen. Bulworth: Why do you think there are no more black leaders? Nina: (after a pause) Some people think it's because they all got killed. But I think it's got more to do with the decimation of the manufacturing base in the urban centers. Senator, an optimistic population throws up optimistic, energized leaders. And when you shift manufacturing to the Sun Belt in the Third World, you destroy the blue-collar core of the black activist population. Some people would say that problem is purely cultural. The power of the media that is continually controlled by fewer and fewer people, add to that the monopoly of the media, a consumer culture based on self-gratification, and you're not likely to have a population that wants leadership that calls for self-sacrifice. But the fact is, I'm just a materialist at heart. But if I look at the economic base, higher domestic employment means jobs for African Americans. World War II meant lots of jobs for black folks. That is what energized the community for the civil rights movement of the 50's and the 60's. An energized, hopeful community will not only produce leaders but more importantly it'll produce leaders they'll respond to. Now what do you think, Senator? -- People have already written off inner city youth and the disproportionately minority class as potential criminals. Add into that, the white flight and redlining which have decimated property taxes in schools (I'm doing my student teaching in a school in January that used to be part of a big manufacturing town. The plants went to Mexico and now the town has been pretty much obliterated with unemployment etc. They don't even have the funds to get every kid in the class a textbook) and you've got a class of people still not receiving quality educations in desegregated classrooms decades after Brown v. Board. Add in the fact that almost every black leader gets demonized (Sharpton, Jackson, etc. -- and that's not to say that there isn't stuff worth criticizing them about...but at least they're trying to get off their ass and do something) or murdered (Fred Hampton, MLK, Malcolm X, et al.) and a justice system that is disproportionately condemning minorities to death (see McKlesky v. Kemp et al. for more information), it is no wonder why there is no hope & people are more willing to join street gangs. If they're believing that they're going to die and get treated like s***, they might as well try to make some fast cash while doing so. Stopping violence is a lot more complex and a lot more difficult than putting a needle in peoples' arms. So tell me, how does white flight, the loss of manufacturing jobs etc...etc... justify the commission of crime? You make it sound like people pimp hoes, sell drugs, steal cars, beat people up, rape women etc, etc, because they lost their job on the assembly line somewhere and want to buy Christmas gifts for their starving kids. f***ing spare me. The fact is that crime is committed by a bunch of sociopaths who have no regard whatsoever for the well being of themselves or those around them.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 09:55 AM) Texas executed 4 people last month. Gang on gang murders are #1 in most cities, these guys already face the death penalty standing on the corners, protecting their turf. Do you think they will suddenly drop the guns and pick up knitting needles if they thought the state might execute them in a year? GMAB Oh I see, just let the bastards wipe each other out huh? Too bad the innocent catch stray bullets in the noodle or you might have something there.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 09:37 AM) Yet, even after their fellow gang members have been executed, they still commit murder? I guess this isn't much of a deterrent. We've been over this ground before Tex. The Death Penalty isin't a deterrent because it takes an average of 12 years to kill these assholes and it isin't imposed in a uniform manner. You and LCR should save your tears for the thousands of victims created by this piece of s***.

QUOTE(EvilMonkey @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 09:26 AM) It amazes me how many people for "Tookie" refer to his children's books as a reason for him to live. I am trying to find the article i saw it in but i read that the amount of books he sold was around 350. That's it!!!!! Reading some of these news stories you would think the guys sales rivaled Dr. Suess or something. i think the street gang he founded and headed took out more kids than that in a year. Call me what you want....but for the destruction in the black community he caused he should die.....if the black community wants to put themselves up in flames for the guy (and i'm sure it's not the WHOLE community) well then they are a bunch of animals. (not very PC i know but it's getting really stupid) 350 copies?! LMFAO!!!! HAHAHAHA!!!! I bet Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton went halves on 349 of em last week. I think the Cripps, nationwide, probably are responsible for that many deaths, either directly or indirectly in a month let alone a year. Lets do a little math here. 350x12 months x 20 years ( give or take ) = 84000 deaths since the Cripps were founded. How many thousands more are in jail because of the Cripps? Someone gets it.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 09:03 AM) The sad part is that if this guy gets his sentence of death carried out, this WILL turn into a racial issue. Jessie Jackson will show up, all that good stuff. This isn't about race though, or children's book, or politics....it's about a sick human being, and a murderer who started a gang that ruined the lives of thousands of youths, being put to death. If this guy is such a good man and looking out for kids by writing books for them to read, which didn't he think about it and be a productive member of society, rather than start a gang and kill people? Yeah. If Jessie Jackson was this great "leader" of black people he claims he is he'd be clamoring to throw the switch on this scumbag. How many thousands of black people's lives have been destroyed by this s***bag again? But thats not his style. POS Jessie would rather blame the White Man and the "racist" justice system than the people actually doing all this bad stuff.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 08:57 AM) Actually Nuke, God said Thou Shall not Kill, followers then, like today, did not heed his Word and they instituted the Death Penalty for crimes they saw fit. Were the followers also disobeying orders when they wiped out whole nations for the crime of not worshipping the same God as them? Did they pay the price for what we , today, would call genocide? Nope, they paid the price for not worshipping God properly.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 08:47 AM) My earlier post was a general discussion about why the death penalty is wrong in this country. Sorry if I confused anyone. Yes he has. And you believe the government should be killing citizens. What does that say about how much we value life as a society? He should be locked up and never see the light of day. Thou Shall Not Kill. It doesn't say, kill if a jury finds the person guilty. Kill if someone kills a cop or child, but not a middle age accountant. The Bible is such a hypocritical book. The same people who said "Thou shalt not kill" were stoning women to death for wearing clothes made from 2 different kinds of thread. That argument just doesn't wash with me.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 08:40 AM) Let's see. This P.O.S. has gone through the entire appeal process without any success. He's in the most liberal state in the nation, yet he's still on death row. But we might be making a mistake? I laugh at such crap. Even the 9th Circuit Court said he needs to die. If that doesn't tell you something then you have blinders on.