NUKE_CLEVELAND

QUOTE(Steff @ Aug 6, 2005 -> 05:54 AM) The point is you don't know what happened. You don't know if she was f***ed up looking to get laid. By all accounts this girl was responsible and level headed. These guys had a rep for nailing tourists and their way of going about it has been in question (using roofies...??) by the bar owners so much that they had been tossed out of there several times in the past. If it turns out these guys drugged her does that change your opinion? Oh come on. Of course her friends and family are going to stick up for her on television and paint her as the greatest thing since sliced bread ya ya ya ya ya. I expect as much out of them. Only someone as "insensitive" as me would dare to think that she might have brought it on herself. If (and thats a big if ) she was drugged then she can be a legitimate victim again and then her friends become the stupid assholes for not watching out for her. Maybe its just me but I would tend to notice something like 3 guys dragging an unconscious girl out of a bar, especially when the 3 in question were defenitely not part of the group. This is the crux of my argument that she went willingly. Like I said, you can't just drag an knocked out female out of a bar without someone noticing and getting suspicious.

QUOTE(Rex Hudler @ Aug 5, 2005 -> 11:18 PM) All I have to add is that after reading three pages of this drivel, I am shaking my head..... If you don't like what is on TV, turn the f***ING channel!! Nuke, I can't recall reading anything as classless as this. It saddens me that you would take your time to call someone a dumb b****, a whore and whatever else, that you have never met and know nothing about other than what the media has reported about one weekend of her life. In all honesty, it makes me sad that someone is one, that insensitive about others and two, has nothing better to do than post such opionions on a message board. 1. I tried turning the channel and it didn't work. The airwaves are saturated with this non-story. 2. Am I insensitive? Only when someone makes a stupid decision. 3. You're absolutely right about having nothing better to do. The last night of a business trip is usually pretty boring.

QUOTE(FlaSoxxJim @ Aug 5, 2005 -> 05:03 PM) It's taking all of my dignity and decorum to not let loose with the patently offensive "First he nailed her.. then he hammered her!" joke. See how adult I can be. DUDE. I thought I had issues. LOL!!!!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,164830,00.html BRAVO Tony Blair. BRAVO!!!!!!!

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Aug 5, 2005 -> 09:45 PM) So she wanted to get laid. That makes her DESERVE to die? That's where I have a problem. You put yourself in a compromised situation like that and you reap what you sow. Lets end the sympathy for her and give it to those taken under more tragic circumstances.

QUOTE(Steff @ Aug 5, 2005 -> 09:42 PM) I see what you've posted about them... then I read this rant and I guess I'm just dumbfounded at how you can have two completely different arguments on the same situation. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, I don't know. What I do know is until I'm in those shoes I am not judging what happened to this girl, or any victim of a violent crime, and I definitely won't blame them. It's like blaming the rape victim because she wore a short skirt... Agree to disagree. One more point then I'll let this one go. I don't have 2 different viewpoints on this situation. I have 2 viewpoints that compliment each other. First of all, make no mistake these 3 individuals, if they in fact did what I think they did, are total scumbags and deserve to have about 50,000 volts shot through em but again, we all know where I stand on criminals. The point of this thread is that Natalee had it coming. There is no way in hell I can excuse what she did that night. Getting f***ed up and running off with 3 male strangers in a foregin country by herself is completely asinine. If she didn't know any better then she was a stupid, clueless floozy and if she did know better then she's really off her rocker. You play with matches you get burnt. Like I said earlier, any way you want to cut it the world is a little less stupid with her gone. If you want to talk about "asking for it", she may as well have been walking around Lake and Cicero in Chicago with a sign that says "I hate n*****s" like Bruce Willis had on in Die Hard part 3.

QUOTE(Steff @ Aug 5, 2005 -> 04:56 PM) Personal responsibility... what about their personal responsibility NOT to murder someone....... Steff, you've read enough of my posts to know what I think about these 3 assholes. That should be a given.

QUOTE(Steff @ Aug 5, 2005 -> 04:59 PM) Now she's a rich whore... Come on NUKE. Step down for just a second and realize that sometimes good people do stupid things... Sure doesn't mean they deserve to be murdered because of them. Would you call your sister, mother, cousin, etc... the same? Absolutely. I dont play favorites, I call em like I see em.

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Aug 5, 2005 -> 11:06 AM) So I take it that we're gonna be reading the book Cheat picked ("The Curious Incident of the Dog In the Nighttime")? Give us 3 weeks from today -- have a wrap up discussion starting like the 26th of August? That work for everybody? Done.

QUOTE(Wong & Owens @ Aug 5, 2005 -> 09:01 AM) Not to hijack this thread in the "dead horse" direction, but I am curious to know how many in the "it's her own damned fault, the stupid rich whore" camp would call themselves children of god in one way or another? Just a guess, but I think all of them..... I see where you're going with that and you're wrong. I dont preach morality, I preach personal responsibility and there was a total dearth of it in this case. I am the founder of the "it's her own damned fault, the stupid rich whore" camp and you didn't hear me mention morals or God or values once anywhere and you won't in the future. Steff. Call it speculation if you want to but people don't just go home with strangers they meet in a club for the purposes of talking about politics or the weather. To think either she or they had innocent intentions that night is naive at best.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 4, 2005 -> 10:47 PM) Oh man, even I feel dirty after laughing at that. Oh well, it seems I'm already on the express shuttle to hell. Dude, its true. Since they havent found the body after 2 months+ of searching I think its safe to assume that the fishies or the worms had themselves a "stupid girl" buffet.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 4, 2005 -> 10:29 PM) That is well-f***ing put. Nicely done. Hey, and maybe it's a good thing that Natalee Holloway will never have kids. Imagine how f***ed up they would be. LOL!!!! 3rd generation spoiled? Now thats a scary thought.

QUOTE(Middle Buffalo @ Aug 4, 2005 -> 10:37 PM) I have three kids. When they are outside, so am I. That's wheter it's right in front of my house, or in the backyard. It's completely different than how I was raised. Sometimes I wonder if all the attention they (and a lot of other kids DO get) is what makes them so naive at 18. Like I said earlier, the problem you should have is with the media coverage. The girl obviously made a huge mistake. She paid the ultimate price. RIP. Rest in Peace. Pieces. Rest in Pieces. Anyway. You deserve credit for taking the time to properly supervise your kids and for being a good parent. Too bad there are so many parents who don't have such standards.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Aug 4, 2005 -> 10:27 PM) I just thought of another way to get at this, but I don't think I want to open up the can of worms, but what the hell... Nuke, you ever gone home with a chick on a one night stand who'd been drinking? Who's more stupid, that chick, or you? You both were asking for trouble, good thing neither of you found it, unless you are talking about the sex getting you in trouble. Point is, raging hormones and alcohol make you make stupid ass decisions. Period. Ones that you probably wouldn't make sober. It's a good thing you got friends that watch your back. Her friends suck, obviously, that's why she's dead. I've never done the one-night-stand thing. Thats the truth. Call me old fashioned but I think you should know a woman for more then 2 hours before you take em to bed with you.

QUOTE(Middle Buffalo @ Aug 4, 2005 -> 10:24 PM) I refer back to my earlier post. I'll tell ya one thing. When I have children you had best believe that I'll teach them to be smarter than that floozy was. Her parents failed her in that they didn't instill an ounce of common sense into her empty head. Natalee strikes me as a typical spoiled brat who couldn't function on her own for 5 minutes without someone right there making sure she didn't f*** something up. If parents are that aloof or that busy that they can't take time to properly raise children then maybe they shouldn't have them in the 1st place.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Aug 4, 2005 -> 10:22 PM) Anyway... have fun in Buttlanta. I'm flying back in the morning. Anyone who would travel here of their own free will is insane. People like me who were forced to come here because of business deserve more sympathy than Natalee "Born to lose" Holloway does.

All my bills are automatically charged to my credit card which, in turn, gets paid off every month. I've written 2 checks in the last 5 years and those were when I lost my ATM card and was waiting for a replacement.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Aug 4, 2005 -> 10:16 PM) Nuke, don't tell me you have NEVER done anything stupid while drunk (like posting on soxtalk...) I get what you're saying, but I think you're being a little harsh. She was stupid, and she paid the ultimate price, so why is that worthy of "you're a dumb b****, f*** off" treatment? The only reason you'd say that is because the media has exploited her, to the point you feel that way, IMO. I've done some things I later regretted when I was drunk, absolutely. But even in my most extremely schwacked moments I still have enough common sense not to run off with a group of strangers without some friends of my own there to watch my back. I know better and if she had an ounce of common sense she would still be alive and thats where the "dumb b****" statements come in. Frankly, she was a "dumb b****" and like I said earlier, the world is a little less stupid without her.

QUOTE(Middle Buffalo @ Aug 4, 2005 -> 09:54 PM) Then Nuke's anger should be directed at the media. For some reason, he and others are attacking the VICTIM. My post contains plenty of scorn of the media. There's no reason why this idiot should get so much coverage. The fact that personal responsibility is so important to me is why I scorn the "victim" here. She was asking for it and with the way she acted at that club and she may as well have had the phrase " born to lose" tatooed on her forehead.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 4, 2005 -> 09:48 PM) The point is that she doesn't deserve all of this attention. Yes, it's unfortunate that this happened. But, she doesn't deserve all of this attention. There are plenty of people that are more deserving of having a 24-hour watch for them on CNN. Like Nuke said, helpless, innocent children get abducted all the time. They don't get the choice to take their mommy and daddy's money, go on vacation, get loaded, and try to get nailed by anything that moves. This girl made a piss-poor decision, and it cost her her life. Her fault, this deserves very little media attention. Focus on the bigger problem of child abduction. Once again, it's a sad thing, but she did everything to put herself into that situation. 99% of others don't take stupid chances like that, she did. BRAVO my friend and hence my total lack of compassion for her situation. People should save their sympathies for those who deserve it. All this idiot deserves is an epitaph on her grave that reads "Died of Stupidity".

So here's me sitting in my hotel room in s***-lanta flipping through the channels looking to catch some news and here's what I see. Fox News: NATALEE HOLLOWAY MISSING..........DAY 67........they go on for 10 minutes straight before I can't take it anymore and I change channels. CNN: VOLUNTEERS SEARCH FOR MISSING TEEN! Aruba search continues. I only hang here for 5 minutes because this is getting annoying. CNN Headline News: MISSING TEENS MOTHER RETURNS TO ARUBA! By this time I'm starting to get hot under the collar because I want to hear about other issues and by now we're up over 15 straight minutes of this nonsense. MSNBC: (REALLY getting desperate now). In a startling fit of journalistic originality they are interviewing some floozy that was with her that night ( way to look out for your buddy asshole ). At this point I'm ready to throw my bottle of Coors at the TV because I'm so annoyed. Only thing that stops me is I'm not at home. I finally give up on the news and turn on HBO ( i half expected to see Natalee Holloway again ) Here's my point. I'm sick and f***ing tired of hearing about Natalee Holloway. I'm sick of hearing one asshole after another whine about what a tragedy this is. I'm sick and tired of the media express fake empathy for the family and friends while they milk this NON-STORY for everything its worth. f*** NATALEE HOLLOWAY!! Oh wait, those 3 clowns she went home with already did. My bad. Natalee Holloway deserved what happened to her. She was a victim of Darwinisim. She was a victim of her own stupidity. Why should I feel sorry for a stupid floozy who took advantage of lax alcohol restrictions, got wasted in a club, in a foregin country no less, and went home with 3 male strangers, again this is in a foregin country, without any of her friends there to watch her back and purposefully eluding the people who were watching over the group? Why does someone who makes an insanely stupid decision like this on purpose get all this press coverage and all this sympathy when a staggering number of children go missing every day. 2000 to be exact. http://www.childprotectionsolutions.com/ With all the children being snatched off the street by sex offenders while passing from school, and all the kids who are taken from malls or parks or even out of their own homes, why does this ditz get all the attention? The reason is clear. Natalee Holloway is marketable. Natalee Holloway is rich, white, and good looking. It doesn't matter that she was also brain dead and devoid of common sense because rich, white and good looking sells. Alas, despite all regard for what really matters in the world the press will go on and on with this NON-STORY until the case is resolved somehow. Meanwhile, Natalee is fish-food ( or worm food depending on where she was dumped ) and IMHO the world is a little less stupid without her. Rest in Pieces........DUMBASS!

I've been here since last Saturday at a conference and this city is just totally horrible!!!! Trash everywhere, crackheads walking around in what was supposed to be a nice area near the airport, like a zillion cops prowling around doing seemingly nothing. Plus the weather sucks ass as well. I totally can't wait to fly outta here on Friday morning. YUCK!!!

The double standard couldn't have been made more clear by this incident. Its really a shame that other teams can hit our players almost at will while if we just so happen to hit another teams player the warnings and ejections start happening.

Damn Business trips!!! My brief hiatus is over.........sort of........I'll be hanging around chat some this evening even though I cant watch the game here. RIP EM!!!!!

EAT s*** SOROS! Article is in the Washington Post today but I dont have a registration there so I can't post the link but bottom line........this group that did everything, told every lie they could think of.....and smeared a lot of good people is no-more. ALSO...... Radio Air America is on the verge of folding due to lack of ratings and lack of money.