NUKE_CLEVELAND

QUOTE(Texsox @ Jul 25, 2005 -> 08:33 PM) Basically what we are doing. But realize we haven't won. Since 9/11 do we have more or less freedoms? Since 9/11 are we running budget surpluses or deficits? Deficits to fight the war on terror. How did the USSR fall? Largely from economic pressures brought on my debt. Since 9/11 can you board a plane without taking off your shoes? Soon the DMV will be asking for identification before you can renew your driver's license. They will be instant experts on birth certificates from around the world. http://unrealid.com/ Won't this be pleasant as it takes days to renew your driver's license. We are suppose to be about freedom. I believe we've talked about spreading freedom around the world. Yet we are watching ours erode. This is winning? When you cannot walk down your own street without vigilantes stopping you because you may be an illegal. This is winning? When police can roll up to a subway stop and search anyone without probable cause? Our collective paranoia caused us to start war with Iraq and now our military is tied up there with what is shaping up to be a decade long effort while the Sudanese are dying. Was that about WMD or spreading freedom? Either way the terrorists have won. They are spread all over the globe and we're babysitting in Iraq trying to teach people to vote and protect themselves. People have been searched at airports without probable cause for decades but more people ride mass transit and nothing is done there. Does that make sense to you? It shouldn't. Walk down your street without vigilantes stopping you? UHH Last time I checked unless your street was a mountain trail crossing the border that's not happening. Why do these evil vigilantes feel a need to do what they are doing? Oh, because the government isin't doing anything about border security. But since the government isin't tightening security there then you should be happy as illegals still have freedom of movement across our borders. Leaving the borders unguarded is "winning" the war on terrorism according to your logic. Every day that goes by without an attack on our soil we are winning. Every time some tinpot dictator like Quadaffi renounces WMD and cites the fact that the US finally means business we are winning. Every time a country like Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Afghanistan hold free elections we are winning. You cite the Sudan as somewhere we should be while our military is in Iraq? Isin't that the UN's job? Oh wait, Kofi and Kojo are too busy defending themselves from their own corruption and hypocrasy to be bothered with starving people.

QUOTE(KipWellsFan @ Jul 25, 2005 -> 07:20 PM) http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/07/...l.ap/index.html I sure hope he wasn't just running to catch his train, which I heard some witnesses thought he was doing. Coulnd't find a link for that info though. I thought it was only 5 times? What makes someone so f***ing stupid to wear a big heavy coat in the middle of summer when the police are worried about assholes wearing suicide vests? What makes the same idiot even doubly stupid as to bolt from the coppers when they tell him to stop? Some people.

Chat's up and going strong guys. Stop in and say hey.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jul 25, 2005 -> 11:49 AM) We chattin' tonight? I'll be there! You know it dude!

QUOTE(Ozzie Montana @ Jul 25, 2005 -> 04:27 PM) Its good to see Dye is back in the starting lineup. Yeah, we missed him pretty badly the last series.

QUOTE(robinventura23 @ Jul 25, 2005 -> 01:53 PM) Sure would be nice to go to Baltimore with the Magic # under 50! Baltimore has been slumping lately too. They just got swept by the D-Rays if I'm not mistaken. This is a good time to be catching them.

RIP EM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Jul 25, 2005 -> 11:17 AM) Nuke and Killa, I highly doubt that you've read "Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism" but it is a good read. http://antiwar.com/pat/ His book is drawn from an immense database on every suicide-bomb attack from 1980 to early 2004. Conclusion: The claim that 9/11 and the suicide bombings in Iraq are done to advance some jihad by "Islamofascists" against the West is not only unsubstantiated, it is hollow. "Islamic fundamentalism is not as closely associated with suicide terrorism as many people think," Pape tells The American Conservative in its July 18 issue. Indeed, the world's leader in suicide terror was the Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka. This secular Marxist group "invented the famous suicide vest for their suicide assassination of Rajiv Ghandi in May 1991. The Palestinians got the idea of the vest from the Tamil Tigers." But if the aim of suicide bombers is not to advance Islamism in a war of civilizations, what is its purpose? Pape's conclusion: "uicide-terrorist attacks are not so much driven by religion as by a clear strategic objective: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland. From Lebanon to Sri Lanka to Chechnya to Kashmir to the West Bank, every major suicide terrorist campaign – over 95 percent of all incidents – has had as its central objective to compel a democratic state to withdraw." The 9/11 terrorists were over here because we were over there. They are not trying to convert us. They are killing us to drive us out of their countries. There is more at the link. When people like Brig. General William Looney state: "[iraqis] know we own their country. We own their airspace... We dictate the way they live and talk. And that's what's great about America right now. It's a good thing, especially when there's a lot of oil out there we need." then that is a reason people accessorize with dynamite. The flaunting all over the globe toppling governments we don't like (Arbenz in Guatemala all the way to the CIA attempts against Chavez in Venezuela) -- stopping our participation in terrorism (if you read the US definition of terrorism, US military actions qualify) will go a long way to ending terrorism. I do agree with your assessment that terrorists do what they do because we have a large military presence in the Middle East. Osama Bin Laden has said as much himself. However, I still fail to see how you can sit there and equate military action against a bunch like the Taliban or Hussein with some jackass strapping explosives to himself and blowing up a crowd of innocent people. To further that point, suicide bombers in Iraq are now focusing most of their energy targeting ordinary civillians and local Iraqi police who might be shopping for groceries or directing traffic. Again. Terrorists deliberately target civillians while our military takes great pains to avoid civillian casualties. This is a bedrock truth that you always ignore. EDIT. If we up and pulled every last soldier we had in the Middle East out right now the world would fall into chaos. Every last moderate in the region would fall to islamo-fascists, the world's oil supply from there would be choked off and a worldwide depression would ensue. Oh, by the way, suicide bombings would not stop either.

QUOTE(Mplssoxfan @ Jul 25, 2005 -> 09:10 AM) What's lost in all this is that the NYPD is never going to catch a suicide bomber by searching bags. If you are a suicide bomber and you are going to blow yourself up anyway, is a search going to stop you from doing it? No! You are going to detonate a little earlier, that's all. The NYPD is, in general, doing a fantastic job deterring terrorists but this measure is both an immense intrusion on personal liberty and, ultimately, pointless. I couldn't disagree with you more. Even though they aren't going to search every person carrying a bag they are going to be in a position to observe everybody who is entering the stations and they can react when they spot someone who is acting suspiciously.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Jul 25, 2005 -> 06:40 AM) Nuke, Nuke, Nuke :headshake The terrorists bomb a subway in London, we start random searches on our subways. Police will roll up to bus stops and check people's bags. Cops will cruise the el-platforms and start checking random Americans. Anyone who wishes to ride NYC mass transit systems are now guilty until proven innocent by a bag check. And you are saying the terrorists haven't won? Keep your head in your ass buddy while the government rewrites the constitution and keeps eroding our freedoms. If we give up all our freedoms, the terrorists can't take them away . Sorry, but as an American I am quite proud of our constitution and the rights and freedoms it allows. People want to take those rights and freedoms away, and they are winning. I guess innocent until proven guilty and probable cause are parts of the constitution you don't believe in, and you support giving up. What other freedoms should we give up? The freedom to criticize the government (I guess only if it's a GOPernot), the freedom to assemble? If they bomb a library in Liverpool, will we start inspecting bags at libraries? If a bomb goes off on a crowded corner in Cairo, will be start bag searches on every crowded corner? Gas stations are an inviting target, will we need security at all gas stations? Is being guilty until proven innocent the price we will pay to be in public? If they use a gun, will we confiscate all the guns? Ohhh, let's not go there when the NRA supports so many GOPernots with my dues money. Why do we have such security measures at airports? Hijackers in the 60's caused that. Before that is was just come on in. Again, reacting to the terrorists. One goal of the terrorists was to change our way of life. They are achieving that goal and we are helping them. But Nuke, to make you happy, I'll agree we are winning the war on terror and the terrorists are losing. Every time we take another step to secure our lives, we win. When the police have total power to search anyone within our borders at any time, for any reason, it will be our crowning achievement and total victory over terrorists. Again. You are a f***ing hypocrite. You go on and on about how the government is eroding our rights when they implement security measures but you are one of the first ones to say the government isin't doing enough to protect us from terrorism and if we have a mass transit attack where random inspections are not in place then you will b**** on and on about how the government failed to protect us. Sorry Tex but you can't have it both ways. What is your solution to keep the terrorists from winning? I want to hear the wise one tell us how to stop terrorism without tightening security. ( Bracing myself to laugh out loud )

QUOTE(ChiSoxyGirl @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 09:58 PM) I also just finished it. I really liked it--it was a sort of dry effortless humor. Look forward to the discussion. I agree totally with the cover reviews. It was a great satire on the celebrity pop-culture. It really picked up a lot of steam once Tender's handlers got a hold of him and I was laughing out loud during the Superbowl sequence.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 10:51 PM) Why should America be blamed for Rwanda... it wasnt our mess... we werent the ones who conquered it and split the people up. Than just leave. We are wealthy and powerful so all the worlds problems are our fault............didn't you get that memo?

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 09:20 AM) I know you don't have the advantage of listening to Chicago sports radio, but ESPN's Bruce Levine, the "intelligible" baseball dunce...er...source, is reporting this deal is really picking up and quickly. He thinks this has a very, very good chance of going down. Personally, I think Kenny is trying to hammer out two things: 1) Can he make this happen without having to deal Marte 2) Does he have a puncher's chance of signing Burnett to a long-term deal--something I endorse with PK sent packing after 05' anywho Marte can go for all I care.

What a b****. :rolly

QUOTE(KipWellsFan @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 09:01 PM) This thread is just one bit of proof on that argument. Many in this thread are conceding that there is going to be another terrorist attack and I believe most of these people were Bush voters and I believe Bush was the one who said something to the effect of we're fighting in Iraq so we fight them there not on our own turf. Not to mention how much Al-Qaeda has grown and been legitimized as a real organization since Bush took over. Bush has started a War which can and will never be won the way it's currently being fought and extremists are loving it. Wrong Again. God forbid we take measures to protect ourselves. Just because we are fighting terrorists overseas doesn't mean that we stop taking precautions to prevent attacks here. :rolly Al Quada has been driven underground and its membership decimated by fighting with US and coalition forces. Those in leadership positions are being killed or captured at a steady rate, their foot soldiers are either being shot down or locked up in Guantanamo and they, in desperation, are turning to children to fight their battles for them. http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/arti...iting_children/

QUOTE(Texsox @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 08:50 PM) LOL Perhaps you've been living in the military too long to remember real life. So we aren't changing our way of life? Of course we are. Give up freedoms instead of getting blown up. We have changed and are willing to give up any rights and liberties. Read this thread. Random searches where we use to not have any. And this is in response to what? The terrorists in London. They f***ing won. They got us to change our life and live in fear. I stand by my statement. The terrorists have won. They have struck terror into our lives and changed America. I'm not saying that it isn't the correct path to take. We probably had too many freedoms. WRONG WRONG WRONG!!! Bin Laden himself has admitted that he cannot hope to defeat us on the field of battle so his aim is to destroy the economies of the west. Those are his words. What happened after the London attacks? Oh yeah the stock markets of the US and Britain went straight up. God forbid we take measures to meet a new threat BEFORE it hits us or Tex will start whining about his rights are being stripped. Then you're the same ones who whine that the Government hasnt done enough to protect us after the fact. f***ing hypocrasy.

QUOTE(KipWellsFan @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 08:44 PM) Al-Qaeda is kicking Bush's ass. Is that why the Taliban is recruiting children to face off against US troops? LOL! :rolly

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 08:21 PM) I disagree. School vouchers are winning wide spread support across the nation. Every poll & media survey suggests Americans are in favor of the idea. The fact that Daley (a Dem mayor) is one of the more outspoken supporters of extending it to parochial schools means it's already an issue local democrats are linking into. The teachers unions are facing much greater pressure from private education companies than vouchers. Vouchers would likely keep the kids in school rather than continue the growth of home schooling. Did you know you can educate your kids K-12 now with Stanford University? It's true. As for school prayer inititiative I agree bucking up against the ACLU is not without peril for Democrats but this doesn't have to come right away. It would be better for Dems to support the vouchers for several years so that some test results can be compared. That would give them a solid argument on whether spi helps or hinders the process. Assuming it helps that would weaken the strength of the ACLU on the issue. Today it was just announced that the Teamsters & services workers unions are breaking away from the AFL-CIO. That's a clear sign they are fed up with status-quo. This might be a wakeup call to the Dems they better start listening. Unions in America are in shambles. Their membership is hemmoraging, their money is drying up and nobody listens to them anymore ( think of all the millions they spent to unseat Bush ). The final nail in their coffin is coming in the form of a law that would force Unions to seek the consent of their members before spending money on political activism. That would serve to silence them once and for all politically because nobody wants their union dues going to support politicians. As for school vouchers I agree that they are gaining political support but Democrats and their puppetmasters in "Big Education" as I call it ( teachers unions ) will never EVER support it.

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 03:15 PM) No. There is a BIG difference. The religious zealots in the GOP don't give a crap about liberty or freedom. They have an ideological sense of good & evil (sin) & they seek to legislate that into law playing on the fears & anxieties of average Americans. The Democrats can be more religious so as to EXPAND liberty & freedom. School vouchers & prayer initiatives are SAFE issues that can start to pare away the religious voters from the GOP. They can likewise link that liberty & freedom to what some in the GOP would call evil media & entertainment. Thus you appease both groups. With more support they might then be heard when they talk about how global trade practices hurt America. Which in my opinion is the MOST important issue facing America today. I'm sick of hearing about religous zealots in the GOP. That is a product of the leftist media trying to portray our party as a bunch of bible-thumping crackpots and it's just not true. I will grant you that the GOP does have a fairly strong religous wing and yes they do have a lot of influence but not everybody subscribes to that. Using myself as an example, I'm as hard core a Republican as they come but I haven't seen the inside of a church in forever and Id rather preach personal responsibility than someone's pre-concieved notion of morality. On to this post........Your "safe" issues as you described them are not at all safe for Democrats. They can't embrace school vouchers because the (teachers) unions that you want them to turn back to ( which is a huge source of money for them ) would rip them to shreds. They can't support prayer initiatives because the ACLUites who control their every move would balk and that would be that. The Democrats are probably going to have to get used to being the minority party because they can't go anymore to the left without alienating crucial swing voters and can't go more to the right without alienating their base. 2ND Edit. I need to talk about the trade part you mentioned as well. I have seen the Democrats answer to the trade imbalance and you know what it is? Protectionism. Senator Schumer's answer to the trade decifit was a bill laden with protectionist initiatives which got him labeled as Senator "Smoot" Schumer on CNBC. I laughed. The Democrats solution would start a global trade war and if you think the economy is being hurt by global trade practices now just wait till you see the damage done by protectionism. That's why nobody listens to them. Their policies come straight from their union puppetmasters who know more about street fighting than economics.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 05:15 PM) The terrorists have won. We're scared, we'll change our way of life because of you. We'll give up anything if you'll let us live. Ok fine Tex. Lets stop screening bags at Airports, stop screening cargo at the ports, open up the borders and remove all checkpoints on our side, disband the CIA and FBI. Having all that around just tells people that we're scared and that we'll give up anything if terrorists let us live. I really tried to make a statement as asinine as yours which probably just rolled off your tounge and I think I still came up short. :rolly

QUOTE(knightni @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 06:16 PM) Two games in a row he's given up a run in the 9th. Is his back still hurting him or is he just coming back down to the real world? Should Marte/Politte/Cotts/Jenks get a shot at closing a few games? Would Wagner/Batista be more important to this team than Burnett/Schmidt? Dude, he had 2 inherited runners today. I think he did quite well.

QUOTE(Jeckle2000 @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 04:27 PM) That did piss me off hearing people cheering that at the end of the game... What a bunch of morons! One thing that burned me up was the WGN camera crew kept showing this one f***ing Boston fan tool with a rally cap on.

QUOTE(Da Sox @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 04:24 PM) I hope this can be the start of a winning streak...but HELL YIZZAH With KC coming up and MB going to the bump next thats a distinct possibility.

EAT s*** YOU BEAN TOWN BASTAGES!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS OUR HOUSE!!!!!!!!!!! YOU CAN'T COME IN HERE AND WIN A SERIES FROM US, WHATS THE MATTER WITH YOU?!?!?!?! GIMMIE A HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

QUOTE(Adam G @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 04:01 PM) Listening to DJ ramble on is like nails on a chalkboard to me. :banghead Either a beer run or he needs a bathroom break. LOL We joke around about that in chat all the time.