southsideirish

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jun 28, 2007 -> 10:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Add Betemeit and I'm in. Although I would make that deal without Wilson. Still, I've proposed trades since the days of SoxNet that would bring Betemit to Chicago and I'd love to see him here. I would love to see the Betemeit and Kemp deal to Chicago for Contreras that you keep talking about. LOVE IT!!!! I think Kemp is going to be outstanding and Betemeit, if he can play shortstop, would be a great pick up. It would be a great move. QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jun 28, 2007 -> 10:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Cron was a roving guy and I think they wanted him to go back to doing such. I can't specifically speak but I know in the past he indicated he was interested in being more of an assignment guy who went around and than just managed a team for half of a season (but I don't remember the exact details of it anymore). Maybe someone else remembers better than me. Thank you. I would say that answers it. I was speculating things in my head that maybe they didn't like the way he took control of his team during and after the fight. I was trying to make sure it was nothing bad. It seemed like a big drop off from AA manager to Rookie League manager.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 28, 2007 -> 10:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Contreras and Dye for Kemp and Billingsley... get it done KW Kemp and Razor will be fine once they are on the same thing. What does Kemp have to do with Razor? Razor was the manager of the Charlotte Knights last year. It was Chris Cron (who is no longer their manager, Rafael Santana is) - the 2006 Birmingham Barons manager that he took a swing at. By the way, why was Cron demoted from AA Birmingham Barons manager to being the Rookie league Great Falls manager? What happened there? Does anyone know?

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jun 28, 2007 -> 09:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Absolutely sucks? Done developing at 22? I guess since I gave you an inch, you had to take it a mile. Noah isn't what the Bulls need. He plays defense and can rebound well -- things we're paying another guy $15 million to do and spent a high draft pick to acquire the other guy. And yes, I'm confident saying Noah won't be a good offensive player. What screams out to you that he'll develop an offensive game? That pretty jumper of his -- is that going to change into a JJ Redick shot in the next couple seasons? Or how about his footwork on offense? I'm sure his post-game is going to get a heckuva lot better, what with that thick frame of his. But I guess we'll have to talk after the season -- I'm willing to bet that Noah has a similar but worse season that Thomas did, decent on defense but a lot worse on offense. You said he is done developing since he is 21/22. Where did I take a mile from an inche? Ridiculous. His footwork is not as bad as you make it out to be. His shot needs a lot of work. He is a very hard worker and I think he will improve greatly. You state things as if they are fact when they are all opinion. He will improve this team and help this team win. Hawes would not. Hawes is going to take years to develop. QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jun 28, 2007 -> 09:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hawes? Yeah, I'd take a guy who can come off the bench and have some semblence of an offensive post-game, sure. Because the Bulls currently ZERO guys who can do that on the roster. And defense isn't the only part of the game, either. The Bulls currently have lots of guys who can play defense, few who can put the ball in the hoop. Now that I've digested this a little bit, I'm really not that mad -- passing on Hawes isn't going to be some franchise altering decision. And in reality, the decision must've been between Noah and Hawes -- I don't think either J-Wright or Thorton were options, and if the Bulls did take either two, I'd think both would be considered reaches at that point. And the offseason hasn't started yet, either. I can't imagine Pax sitting with the roster as is, without a guy who can score with his back to the basket. I still would've rather had Hawes, and part of my anger is because B-Wright and Brewer looked like they had shots of falling to the Bulls and (eventually) didn't, but I don't see this as an awful pick. So offense is the only thing you are concerned about? Hawes is very skinny and has moves in the college game but it is unproven in the pros. He is very passive and is a very poor rebounder offensively and defensively. Those things do not lead to helping a quality team win. The Bulls are ready to win now. They don't need another player that they have to develop in order to win. He has nothing that will help this team win immediately. He is not even Brad Miller yet - that is his upside. That is the best he can possibly become. You can not teach agressiveness. He doesn't have it. I am honestly shocked that Zach Randolph was traded for sooooooooooooooo little and the Bulls didn't try to get him. That is a 20 and 10 post up inside scorer that is established in this league and would have fit perfectly with the Bulls. To see him go to the Knicks for Channing Frye and Steve Francis is ridiculous. This is what the Bulls needed most and it is like they didn't even make an offer. This upset me more than anything. I am actually cool with the pick. This trade that didn't happen pissed me off.

QUOTE(quickman @ Jun 28, 2007 -> 08:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> this is typical whitesox bull. We overrate our players and the rest of baseball knows it. I'm not buying this at all. You can't hang your hat on Javy or Conteras? Please! That is ridiculous. Tadahito is starting to hit and play better. I think you will get some teams interested in him mighty quickly. Once Jermain Dye gets healthy and proves so then he will have a lot of interest. Plus if by overrate you mean market and sell our players for the highest price possible - yes I hope the White Sox do do this. If they don't I would be extremely pissed off. The rest of baseball decides what they will pay. Just like the teams that paid the price for Freddy Garcia and Victor Zambrano. Just like the teams that pay the free agent contracts to Zito and AROD. You don't need all of the teams to be willing to pay that price - you just need one. The rest is selling and posturing, which is what every good GM and agent does. It is silly to want or expect anything less from your team. QUOTE(quickman @ Jun 28, 2007 -> 09:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You are so right, we overrated mcarthy and made him look good enough and found a donkey to take him. Thats great, Buerhle though is pretty much a known commodity. Is he worth two high prospects? Not to most people but maybe fabricating or embellishing who may be involved in wanting him they may get more. I think my comment was just meant to say its how the whitesox work. There is always some sub plot hanging out there that needs explaining. Nothing is simple with this team. Always questions, comments, contraversies,always something. Its just always been that way. You make it sound so bad. It is not a bad thing.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jun 28, 2007 -> 08:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm sorry, but Noah is what -- 21, 22 years old? If he hasn't learned how to properly shoot the ball as of right now, I don't think he's going to learn. Dude has no offensive game. None. So you are done developing at 22? That is f***ing ridiculous. I don't even know where to begin with your comment there. So the dude, when he was healthy in 2006, was a candidate for #1 overall. He is hurt and can't perform as well and he absolutely sucks in 2007? Give me a break. He is a good pick and will only help the Bulls get better. He has a bright future. So who did you want? Hawes? A guy whose upside is Brad Miller? Offense is not the only part of the game.

I hate to say I told you so, but I did tell you so. Steve, are you angry yet? Could this be the end of Ben Wallace in Chicago? He and Noah are similar players. Can they trade Wallace and Gordon and get something in return? QUOTE(GoRowand33 @ Jun 28, 2007 -> 07:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I like Noah regardless of everyone saying we have no low-post threat, I think Tyrus and Noah are a great combo that still have time to develop into low-post threats Plus Noah is a hard worker and he knows his flaws. I am sure he will do everything he can to become better. He is not like Tyson Chandler at all in that regard. Noah also played injured this year for about half the year and the whole tournament. That could have affected a lot. He was a canidate to go #1 overall last year. This year he fell a bit. Kind of like a Matt Leinhart situation. I like the pick a lot.

Shouldn't this be the 4th best 2B. He is not listed as a SS on Scout.com - he is listed as the 4th best 2B.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jun 28, 2007 -> 03:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, Richar and Uribe are probably about equal on defense...sure. Hold on a second here. I am not stating that Uribe and Richar are equals, far from it. I am simply stating that throwing to the wrong base and making mental errors sounds like Uribe to me. I have never seen this kid play to say how he equals Uribe on defense. Calm down there hitless.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 28, 2007 -> 03:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> While we're foolishly waiting around for any type of update, what's everyone's percentage in terms of Buehrle re-signing in the next 2 days? I'm at 30 pct now. 99.9% he re-signs

QUOTE(toasty @ Jun 28, 2007 -> 03:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> that's not a rumor, that's crap I agree that article seems like a bunch of crap and like he made it up as he went along.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 28, 2007 -> 01:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually, this is something we've been talking about for over a year now in regards to Kemp. I'm not going to say who said it, etc....just trust some of us that know about the situation. Civic told you all you need to know. I am not trying to start anything here and I believe you when you say you talked to this person and he said that. However, Kemp didn't punch anyone. What Civic said about AJ not punching Cora is meaningless. It turned out that Kemp never punched Cron at all.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jun 28, 2007 -> 01:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The day before he was traded, he made three (two were uncredited) errors in the field, from wide throws to first, to drop relay throws, to mental errors such as throwing to the wrong base. wow, sounds like a SS I know very well.

You guys that think he stinks with the glove - have you actually seen him play or are you going by scouting reports? Just asking - because maybe there is a chance that he improved. I would really like to see this kid play.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 28, 2007 -> 01:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> AJ was an asshole on another team yet he's a peach here, FWIW. The Sox don't shy away from problem children. They thrive in fixing them so I'd take the above opinion as all oponions should be taken. Thank you Steff. Good point. The problem is that Fathom is stating his opinion as fact by using a source and not stating it as opinion. I am trying to get what he is talking about and who this person that told him this is. Confusing. QUOTE(103 mph screwball @ Jun 28, 2007 -> 01:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Perhaps Cubs fan should be filtered. I find being called that much more offensive than a@@hole. You are what you are. Deal with it.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 28, 2007 -> 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nope, I'll just go with what I was directly told, and that is in regards to Kemp being a massive asshole and the Sox would never welcome him into their organization. Told by whom? Why is asshole ok to say on this site? Isn't that vulgar?

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Jun 28, 2007 -> 12:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry I don't buy that, I think Yi will have more of an instant impact than Noah will... Also, I have no idea where you hear that Yi is passive, he cuts to the neck and takes on double teams without worry... I guess just because one is white and the other chinese, they aren't aggressive? Why is race an issue? I never knew that white and chinese people were not agressive people. I watched scouting reports on him. Yi does not even play like a big man and he is a terrible rebounder. He is not a back to the basket big man low post scorer that the Bulls desperately need. He is more of a Nowitzki, but not as talented. Yi may be more of an impact player, but that doesn't make him a better player. The knock on both of these players - Hawes and Yi - is that they lack the agressiveness it takes to play those positions. I don't know what you have seen or read that has stated otherwise. QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 28, 2007 -> 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Noah and Ben Wallace would be the worst offensive big man duo ever, he simply DOES NOT fit the Bulls roster at all. If the Bulls had a big man like KG he would, but not with Big Ben. And I stand corrected on JamesOn, thanks for the link to that comment by K.C. Noah is young enough that they can teach him some offense. Plus Ben Wallace is not going to be here forever.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Jun 28, 2007 -> 10:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> UMMMMM STEVE NASH!!?!??!!?!??!??! yes... Noah is my last resort and my anger... seems like they really like Hawes, and if Yi falls he's a no-brainer. It actually seems like you are going to be angry because Noah looks like their pick. They are in love with this guy and he fits exactly the type of player they like. He really isn't like Tyson Chandler at all. Spencer Hawes and Yi do no help them at all because of where they are at as a team. Those two need time to develop in order to be effective in the NBA. They are also very passive and lack the agressiveness it takes to be a big in the NBA. They would be wise to see what it will take to get Zach Randolph from Portland. Supposedly Portland is trying desperately to move back into the top 10 of the draft after they take Oden. I believe they are looking to draft Mike Conley Jr. with that 2nd pick. If the Bulls take Mike Conley Jr. with their pick then I would bet on a trade with Portland is in the mix.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jun 28, 2007 -> 11:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just speculating, but I wonder if Buehrle will ask for a no trade clause or limited no trade clause (ie, Buehrle can only be traded to teams in St. Louis). If I were him and had a child on the way, I wouldn't blame him for wanting to stay in one place. I believe the "Trade and Sign" stuff is just Soxtalk speculation, but White Sox generally do not have a problem at least giving limited no trade clauses. He definitely should. That should be a no brainer. I highly doubt that would even be a sticking point. QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 28, 2007 -> 11:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The White Sox will never take on Kemp and his attitude issues. Can you please explain what his attitude issues are. A fight against another team is hardly what I would call an attitude issue. I can't find anything that states that he is difficult or hard to coach or a bad person in the locker room. What exactly are you talking about?

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 28, 2007 -> 11:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The White Sox will never take on Kemp and his attitude issues. Can you explain what his attitude issues are please. I can only find this one thing on him.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 28, 2007 -> 11:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's a public relations thing for the Sox, because if they can't get a contract agreed up in the next 24 hours, they can tell the fans that they gave him the chance to re-sign, but they just were too far apart on the numbers. My biggest fear with this situation is that we trade Buehrle and end up keeping Contreras for the next two years and also have to get rid of Garland this offseason. I highly doubt KW will put himself in another situation like this year where he has to deal with all these rumors during the season about whether or not the player will be re-signed, traded, or finish the year with no contract. Kemp will never play for the White Sox. Also, Dye's quad isn't responding to treatment right now, so it's likely he'd never pass a physical. Why would Kemp never play for the Sox? Because he took a swing at the Birmingham manager? Ridiculous.

QUOTE(EvilJester99 @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 09:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Now Bill Melton just said that Buehrle's agent came to the Sox and said they want to try and work a deal... TIFWIW. So then is he lying to Levine or just not stating the whole truth?

QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 04:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You can base it off of his behavior in the past. Look up the story Neil Cotts told about their road trip as an indication of Mark's general attitude on life. Should be in one of the the no-no threads. So you base this on Cotts' story? He is a common everyday down to earth type of guy. So am I. However, if somoene is offering me 50 million or 70 million to do the same exact job but in a different place, I am probably going to take the 70 million. 20 million dollars is a lot of freaking money. How this is even a discussion I don't know. We are talking millions here. Not thousands. You are talking a 40% difference.

QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 04:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No. There's no reason to get that upset and resort to calling others retarded for making guesses and discussing what Mark's thoughts might be based on logical inferences and Mark's past actions and thoughts. Dude, it is not upsetting, it is frustrating. It is like listening to the dumbf***s that call the Chris Ranje show after the game and give their opinions and trade offers. It is really frustrating. What are Buehrle's past actions and thoughts that have brought you to this conclusion about him? You don't know him or ALL of the actions he has had in the past. You know he has a child on the way. That changes everything IN A HURRY!

QUOTE(chiguy79 @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 04:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Obviously we can't state Mark's opinion...only he can do that. But as IAMSHAQ suggest we can draw inferences that money becomes less important the more of it you have, is pretty much the point we are trying to make. You can disagree with that and that is fine, that will be your opinion. But you pretty much pointed out that your opinion is the same as ours. Again, head hitting wall. Money becomes less important the more you have? I don't think you would know this unless you are in that situation. Have you ever heard of "the more you have the more you want?" It all depends on the person. How can you possibly have an opinion of this unless you actually know the person and what is going through his mind? You can't.

QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 04:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He was pontificating on what Mark's motivations and thoughts might be, not what they are. You jumped on him (and others), responding with flippant, caustic remarks and direct insults. Can you see why? They are silly remarks taken from left field. If you don't know the man or know what he is thinking then why would you make a statement about it or have an opinion one way or another about it. It is silly to comment on it if you are ignorant or lack knowledge of the situation. It is just silly. So can you see why someone would become frustrated and respond with flippant, caustic remarks?