southsideirish

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 03:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> seriously though, how does this guy still have a job? Because he is employed by people smarter than you that actually know baseball and know what is actually going on with the team and around the team? Just a hunch.

QUOTE(GaelicSoxFan @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 03:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> /beginrant To all the people who want Walk's head on a platter, I have a question for you: who's gonna replace him? I know there are hitting coaches out there, but there's a reason why they're unemployed at this point in the season. They're bad. Eddie Murray was a great hitter in his career, but he couldn't get the job done as a coach. Or would the Sox make Harold Baines the hitting coach? Here's what the players are gonna hear from him: (crickets chirping) /endrant I can tell you it will be Manny Trillo. That is who is going to save this offense damnit - not new players - Manny Trillo.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 02:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> By your logic, Manuel, Nardi, and Von Joshua should still be employed by the Palehose. That is not true at all. That is not my logic. The White Sox wanted and needed to go in a different direction than Manuel. They no longer wanted the calm manager with no emotion. They wanted a fiery guy. In Nardi and Von Joshua I am not sure of the issues - but I am sure there were more issues than veteran players not hitting or pitching. There has to be more to it than that.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 08:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Then shouldn't Don Cooper be out of a job? The pitching is why the Sox didn't win last year, and its actually worse by the numbers this year at the same point in time. Don Cooper doesn't get any heat. Everyone bought the playoff tiredness, too bad it doesn't seem to affect other teams that make the playoffs way more often than the White Sox. Its not the coaches. Its the players. They are not that good. The White Sox have a few good individual offensive players. They really have no speed. They really have no lead off guy. They have no one who can bunt. They have no hit and run guys. They are loaded with slow guys who swing and miss a lot. KW needs to go back to the drawing board. Exactly! Lets get rid of freakin Cooper. So what if the starters are good - they are veterans for the most part. The bullpen freakin sucks and it has to be because of him. He is the one teaching the kids. Plus he is the one teaching them not to pitch will all the velocity, right? Get rid of him! Hang em! Sounds ridiculous. I completely agree with your entire post Dick Allen. Lets get some better players in here. I think one of the things that a lot of the Sox fans that call for coaching changes have similar to most Cub fans is that they all think coaching changes are needed and are the fix all end all. Get rid of Baylor - he sucks, bring in Dusty, YAY! Get rid of Dusty, he sucks, bring in Lou, YAY! Lou freakin sucks, why didn't the Cubs get Girardi? Boo Lou, HOORAY Girardi! Yet the team remains the same bunch of stink ass players as before and they keep losing. It is the same here with the fans that want coaching changes. The coach can change, yet the output on the field will be the same if you don't change the players. You people just want that warm and fuzzy feeling inside that a change was made because management heard you and they care about you. Yeah - ok!

QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 11:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Any trade I would make with the Mets would need to bring back Martinez Player G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG OPS E 2007 55 214 29 56 9 1 3 17 76 19 48 3 4 .331 .355 .262 .686 3 These are his AA numbers this season, not really that impressive until you figure he is only 18 and still has time to develop. Again I would rather get a package of some younger guys than just Pelfrey and Milledge. If Pelfrey was that good he would be pitching in NY now and the Mets wouldn't be looking for a pitcher. I would like to see Martinez, Guerra, and Milledge for Mark and ________. I kind of agree with you, but I don't understand the fasciniation with Guerra. Martinez and Milledge for Buehrle. I will take that. If they package Jermaine Dye with Buehrle maybe he can bring back a Gomez or Pelfrey. That would be nice.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 07:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ESPN commentators? You can't be serious? Yeah, that's why I like those Met prospects -- because ESPN has hyped them. No other reasons, really... Then why else do you like them? WHat have you seen of them at the major league level that is so attractive to you? Is it because of the couple of scouting reports that you read on them? I'm just trying to figure this out.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 10:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't think anyone believes that Greg Walker is causing our problems. But it's a logical change to make at the moment. Logical? To who and how? It doesn't seem logical at all. Actually a lot here do think he is causing the problems with some lift and pull approach that he teaches and preaches that no one has any evidence of. I think SS2K5 hit the nail on the head to tell you the truth.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 04:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Fixed. And yeah, I can't really dispute that. Let's just hope our GM doesn't make the same judgements based off of tiny sample sizes that you seem to be making. I am not saying they aren't good, but based on that I think that they are not equal to Mark Buehrle. Something else has to be placed in that deal. That something else is Martinez. QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 04:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And I think those expectations are well out of whack. Again -- it's three months for Buehrle -- not three months plus the extension -- for a combined 18 years of those top prospects. If Minaya liked Buehrle enough, he could throw gobs of money at him this winter. 18 years? How do you know? What if they suck - we may not want them. Buehrle for sure doesn't suck. They may not be the same contending team going into next season. Other teams may catch up to him. Other teams may throw more money at him. He is getting him in house for sure with the chance to work on a deal before winter. QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 04:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I didn't respond to it because I didn't feel I needed to. I don't really give a damn about hype. I judge each prospect on their own merits, and I read and hear what other people think about these guys. I make my own judgements about whose opinion I'm going to 'respect' (for lack of a better term) -- for example, I'm not going to believe and listen to Steve Phillips if he tells me Lastings Milledge is going to be the best player to ever step on a baseball field. So you are making judgements on them from others that would overhype them? You never actually see them except when they play ML ball and so far they have both sucked in that situation. So the only things that make you respect them so much is the fact that some people may be overhyping them. QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 04:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I like Milledge because he's a guy that both scouts and 'stat' guys like for his combination of tools and performance. I like Pelfrey because, well, it's hard not to like one of the top pitching prospects in baseball. Ditto Martinez. I like him too and I like Pelfrey - as far as prospects go. However, that does not translate to a sure thing - like one of the best LH SPs in all of baseball. It just doesn't. QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 04:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And since we seem to be getting into semantics here, here's what I initially said: I take 'bet' to mean if I offer $500 and, if the Sox don't get that package of players back, I'm getting $500 players back. But I understand that with me using the word "offer" in the next sentence, it's going to mean me just giving up $500 dollars. If it means me taking a hit to my manhood, though, for not giving up $500 dollars on something that I'm thinking one way and you're thinking another, then -- damnit -- I just don't know how I'm going to live the rest of my live. Might as well just pack it in, really... If I knew you personally I would walk over to your house and offer you 500 dollars....... Seperate statement from the bet statement - as long as we are talking semantics. You seem to be sooooooo very confident that it won't happen - then what do you have to lose. I never once said I was confident in that. I actually stated that is what he is worth and what they should be looking for. Pack up your manhood buddy. That's a damn shame.

QUOTE(Wanne @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ya know...all you want to do is friggin argue. You have your views....and EVERYBODY else has theirs. So if you buy what Walker says on air...good for you. IMO...he's covering his ass. Bottom line...NOBODY is doing their job...and that INCLUDES WALKER. I'm actually starting to think you're Greg Walker's wife or something. I'll give you your kudos - I do like to argue, but that is besides the point here. How is he covering his ass? Am I supposed to believe that a fan such as you knows more than these coaches and the White Sox management? I surely do not believe that. You can believe that if you like, but you would be sorely mistaken. There is a reason why you are not part of a major league team or management team - because you suck ass at everything baseball except for watching it. Greg Walker has asked me to marry him, but no, I am not his wife. I had to turn him down because I am not into that kind of thing. QUOTE(Wanne @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> BTW...that's an AWESOME point!!!! Ya know what comes to mind with that statement: http://frogstar.soylentgeek.com/wav/bmwrong.wav Because you were wrong and you can't argue it. Try looking at the entire statement and it all ties in. Thanks for playing big guy. QUOTE(DonnyDevito @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 04:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> it's painfully obvious the white sox gave up on the season long ago. what you mention would just improve the team and that's not in the best interest of KW's vision right now as he clearly wants the #1 overall pick next season. Just because you gave up on the season does not mean they gave up on the season. It may look like it when you have a bunch of rookies and benchplayers playing in the replace of starters, but I can't imagine any ML baseball player has it in him to just give up and lay down. I don't think you can make it that far if you have that type of attitude.

QUOTE(DonnyDevito @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 04:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> he may be but i'm glad someone was able to tell Coop how much he and the team suck. sure they know it, but the more they hear it, the more it will sink in. Really? This is silly.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 02:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If we could find a way to move the salary of either Contreras or Vazquez to open a rotation spot and get another piece somewhere in the field in exchange for them, that's actually starting to seem like a pretty good idea. I would love that idea. Damn that would be awesome.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You're making a judgement based on about a quarter's worth of a season for both guys. If you want to do that, that's your perogative -- I think it's quite stupid, though. That is the reality of it. During the MLB career they have sucked. Reality is greater than perception. QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'll admit that you did catch me with my hand in the cookie jar here. I'm not staking $500 just for s***s and giggles. I understand I made the offer here, so it's on me, but if you're so confident the Sox are going to get a package of two top 25 prospects (okay -- so Martinez is at 27) in all of baseball and another top 100-125 prospect (Milledge) for Buehrle, I don't see why you wouldn't want to put your money where your mouth is -- obviously not the afformentioned $500, but... I have no reason to. I never said I was that confident that they would. What I did say is that should be the asking price for one of the best LH SP in the game today. This is not your average hired hitman. You made the offer. Let's see if you are a man of your word and stick to that offer. Like I said - we have to come up with some sort of deal by what something comparable to those 3 are. It also seems as though you agree with me that NY prospects are more hyped up than any other prospect since you never argued that point. So just because they are top 25-27 prospects is kind of meaningless really - if you agree that they are more hyped than other prospects. Lets agree to a deal and we will go from there.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 12:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As a 21 year old. In 166 at-bats. But keep going... So? QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 12:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As a 23 year old. In 53 innings pitched. You're on a roll! Again, so? QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 12:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes -- that's what a prospect is. And if you evaluate them properly, more times than not, if they succeed in the minors, they're going to succeed in the majors. It's obviously not as simple as that, but Martinez is 18 years old (!) and already in AA. Thank you for definition time. More times than not? How do you evaluate them properly. As you and I both know - prospects miss way more than they hit. Now if you want to admit that or not, that is another question. 18 years old already in AA - WOW, hold me down. So far all of your reasons are based on age - quite honestly - I could care less. QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 12:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not true. Jose Valentin and Damion Easley are currently forming a nice little platoon, putting up an OPS+ of around 110. And hell, Ruben Gotay has a 121 OPS+ in 44 at-bats -- Ruben f***ing Gotay! It seems whatever they put at second turns to gold. Fine - they don't need Iguchi - don't include him - I don't care. Either way I would request the same package. Again, the Sox don't need to deal one of the best LH SPs in the game. They can command whatever price they want. If the Mets don't want him then they don't have to pay it and he may go to a rival that does want to pay it. Let them take that chance. QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 12:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Who's saying give him away? First off, I think the Sox should be doing everything they can to get Buehrle inked to a contract and, by April 2008, trade Contreras. But if they can't do that, they're going to lose him for two top 50 draft picks. If the Mets offered Milledge and that Guerra kid -- and the Sox were SURE that they couldn't resign Buehrle -- I'd take that deal, as those two are likely to be better than what you're going to get with the two draft picks. I agree with you on Buehrle and the COunt. Again with Guerra. f*** him - what is the bid deal with him? There is no way anyone could possibly know what he is. If all they get is Milledge and Guerra well then they are screwed. That is a f***ed up deal. QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 12:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You're arguing for the sake of arguing. I'd bet everything I own that the Sox don't get anything close to a package of Martinez, Pelfrey and Milledge. If I knew you personally I'd walk to your house and offer you $500 that the Sox don't get anything close to your fantasy package. Sounds good to me. We have to determine what you mean by "close to a package of" though. I can give you a paypal account to transfer the money into. You don't have to know mer personally to give me money. I would gladly take money from you or any other stranger that offered me 500 dollars. Sounds good. PM me and let me know your definition and I will let you know my paypal account. What do I have to lose? I am not offering it up. I either get 0 or 500. Sounds great. Win/win situation for me. Don't back out now - I expect a PM from you.

QUOTE(forrestg @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 03:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Laying down ??? Good question but is that how you have to state it.. I guarantee Larry Rothchild wouldn't get a question directed in such a manner. I grew up listening to whitesox announcer Elston promote our sox and the station that brodcast them. North isn't the only one that degrades the sox and their players to get what, a reaction, is that important.. The sox are played on 670 what can the management at the Score possibly gain by degrading our team.. A little false bravado.. I'm sure there is a thousand questions that North could ask that could be informative like delving into mechanic issues with the staff.. But because he's not a very good interviewer he agitates them. Listen the cubs play on 720 when I listen to the score where my team is heard I expect that the players, coaches and players are at least treated with some type of respect. I don't know how he remains employed at whitesox flagship station 670 the score. Bring on people at the score that have opinions but still promote our Whitesox. We all know the sox are playing badly but there is no need for inflammatory accusations..... Great points. I really don't know how this clown has a job let alone how he has become this media icon in Chicago. It is quite embarrassing really. NY heard him for two days and couldn't stand him. They could tell right away that he sucked ass. We have him for life it seems.How is that possible?

QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 10:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The White Sox going after Adam Dunn is almost too stupid to even consider. Not really - especially if you get him way before the deadline. He is a proven big league hitter. It all depends what you have to give up for him. If you get him and can't re-sign him then you can always shop him around to the highest bidder and get some young prospects that may fit what you need to rebuild better than the ones you gave up to get him. Who knows really, but it isn't stupid. It is never stupid to listen and consider alternatives, is it?

QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 10:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And KW... please keep trading young minor leaguer players for minor league veterans with virtually no upside. He got lucky with a few trades, but I am not convinced he will be able to rebuild this franchise. He made some great deals...but most of his recent deals have been garbage. Are you speaking of the Cunningham/Richar trade? From what I read Richar has great potential and a lot of upside. What have you read or seen different? Have you seen either play or are you just looking at scouting reports? I really don't think Kenny Williams needs or is looking for your confidence in anything. What are the garbage deals? QUOTE(gosox41 @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 10:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I hope you're right. I would love for him to reach the potential you think he has. By saying he has 'a ton of potential'can I assume you like him to be a #2 type starter or better? Bob - I don't know what he has. That's the point. Neither of us do. However - you made it clear that he is just about worthless - which I find kind of humorous. I made no distinction one way or another. I have read a lot on him that says he has great stuff - but he lacks control and sometimes confidence. Hopefully both those issues can be worked out. I have never read a thing about him that didn't say he had the potential to be really good. How can you project any player to be any type of starter until he proves himself in the majors? To do so would be silly.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 07:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Milledge, Pelfrey and Martinez is more than a king's ransom. You're talking about two starting outfielders and a middle of the rotation starting pitcher. And six, cheap years of each of those players -- again, for three months of Mark Buehrle. Minaya has no reason to give up those three. His starting rotation is putting up an ERA+ of about 130 right now. They get Pedro back in a month or so and have Pelfrey waiting in the wings. People might say they lack a top of the rotation starter, but Ollie Perez has pitched like he did in 2004, and John Maine has also been spectacular and has above average stuff to boot. With that offense, that's more than good enough. If Minaya likes Buehrle that much, he'll give him 5/$90 in the winter and give up his first rounder in 2008. We're not coming CLOSE to getting a package of Milledge, Pelfrey and Martinez. If you're expecting that, prepare to call for Kenny Williams' head after the move is made. Really? Do you really believe in those rankings? Don't you think New York prospects get more hyped up than almost any other prospect? Milledge has been in the majors and did nothing. Pelfrey pitched in the majors and looked awful. Martinez has potential - but hell - he has proved nothing in the majors. To get 3 months of Buehrle and we will even throw in Iguchi who is better than anyone else they have at 2B - You would think they would give these guys up. Especially if Buehrle signs long term with them. I think some here put way way way too much worth into prospects. You have one of the best left-handed starting pitchers in the majors - you best get more than a kings ransom for him. If not, look elsewhere. Don't just give him away. You don't have to trade him at all.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 05:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You never heard that Willie Harris was supposed to be a regular? How long have you been following the White Sox? He actually was a regular for a little while. I know he was, but I never heard that he was supposed to be before he was. Honestly - before he was the 2B I thought they were only thinking of him as a utility man/pinch runner. I thought he was placed at 2B because there was nothing else - not becuase they thought that highly of him. I also have a bad memory sometimes - so you could be right. All my life my friend. All my life. QUOTE(diegotony06 @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 05:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I thought Willie Harris was supposed to be the next Ray Durham when we got him. That worked out horribly wrong.

QUOTE(gosox41 @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 05:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't know for certain any more then you do. I haven't seen him but I've read alot and have seen his numbers. I hope he turns into a consistent 20 game winner, but I have a bad feeling about this guy. Also, the Sox didn't draft this guy. Imagine if we had drafted a guy with some potential and then traded for a potential future 15 game winner be it Floyd (which I doubt) or someone else. Having a strong farm system gives the team a lot more flexibility. Bob You mentioned Floyd specifically and kind of put him down. You wrote it as if it were fact - not opinion. I think he has a ton of potential. I don't know what he will be, but I would not judge him on it just yet and I didn't - you did. Give him time and don't jump to any conclusions.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 05:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Message to Uribe? Plus if Gonzalez goes down we have a relief infielder to bring up and try out. Oh God I hope Uribe is gone. I think it is more of a plan to get Iguchi out of here though. I would be happy to get rid of either player really.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 04:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What was the scouting report on Brian Anderson? Wasn't he supposed to be starting in CF tearing up the AL? Wasn't the scouting report on Jerry Owens a couple of years ago saying he should be in someone's OF in 2007? Wasn't Willie Harris supposed to be a regular say 4 or 5 years ago? You also should read the old scouting reports on Pablo Ozuna. He was once ranked as one of the best prospects in baseball, until they found out he was a few years older than they thought. If KW is truely "going for it" like he constantly says, a line-up filled with rookies isn't going to work. Maybe the guy does start his rookie year when he's 25, but he ain't that great. Who are the 2 organizations that think he'll be a starter in 2008? You just said it most likely wouldn't be the Diamondbacks, and I have yet to hear KW's take on him? So then you are backing me up on this idea - a fan that reads a couple of scouting reports knows very little if anything about a player, but a couple of organizations that see him as a starting 2B in 08 knows more - correct? Or - I'm sorry - maybe you have actually seen this guy play a lot in person and you are making your judgement on what you actually have seen in him. First - I never heard anyone say he would be tearing up the AL. SEcond I never heard anyone say Owens was anything more than a 4th OF at best. Third- Willie Harris was supposed to be a regular? I never heard that - ever. Fourth - I have heard many changes in age that affect the way an organization looks at a player. That happens. Plus who said I wanted or that KW wanted the line-up to be filled with rookies? If you look at my previous posts in any thread you would know that this is definitely not what I want - I can't speak for KW. I would bet the White Sox are planning on using him as Iguchi's replacement in 08. Speculation, opinion - yes - just as is yours.

QUOTE(beautox @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 04:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Now with the sox picking up Richar, I would deal Iguchi and Mark to the mets. Buy low on milledge and demand Fernando Martinez and Deolis Guerra. There will be plenty of teams looking to us for mark, we should get what we gave up for Garcia and then some. Martinez and Guerra would create a second wave in our up and coming youth movement along with DLS. Guerra is a long ways away, so i would try and get Stoner or Smith thrown in too. What is with this Deolis Guerra. Getting him would not make or break any deal I would want with them. He is way too far away to even know what he is or will be. Get Milledge, Pelfrey, and Martinez and the deal is done - pretty simple actually.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 04:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Forgive me for not being too excited about a 24 year old putting up decent numbers in the PCL. I'm guessing KW is hoping this guy can be Pablo Ozuna- like, I'd be shocked if he's counting on him being a regular as soon as next season. His scouting report seemed to think he would be the replacement next year for Hudson. So I'm guessing he is not Ozuna like and that he would be starting in 08. The report also stated that he would be in the majors in 08, but most likely not with the Diamondbacks if they move Upton to 2B. If 2 organizations think he will be a starter in 08 I think they would know more than, say, a fan that read a scouting report or 2. Just a hunch. QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 04:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah why would anyone deal with one of the best farm systems in baseball. classic

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 04:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ya, that was the one thing I thought about. It makes you think when they deal a middle infielder for yet another outfield prospect. It could be that Richar had expressed some sort of desire to get an opportunity and they granted him it or it could just be the Dbacks really like Cunningham and think they are getting a bargain. Who knows. Don't they have a lot of MI prospects as well - one of the reasons Richar was playing so many positions was because he was be blocked at a lot. So they deal from a surplus for something else they have a surplus of? It is nice to know KW is out there talking though. It seems like he likes to deal with AZ. Maybe there is something bigger in the works and this just happened to fall in KWs lap as they were talking about another player - possibly Dye?

I thought they addressed the amount of SBs in the scouting report. He had nagging/painful leg injuries - but nothing serious - which prevented him from stealing a lot of bases. After reading that I wasn't disappointed with his numbers.