southsideirish

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 08:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> KW's going nowhere. For the posters hoping that he'll be fired, that ain't gonna happen, because of what he's done for this team especially over the past couple of seasons. However he's coming up to an important time in his tenure as GM now. His motto has been an aggressive GM to make moves to help put us over the top, and our system has suffered because of that. Now he probably needs to do a complete 180, and build up that system and get this team younger and quicker. KW even said it himself when he said he wasn't happy with our system, and we needed to do a better job in the draft, hence why Duane Shaffer is no longer the man in charge there and Dave Wilder is. I think pitching wise we're getting better, but we need to stop taking safe college pitchers in the 1st round. We've hit on late - middle round picks such as B-Mac over the years which is good, we just need to do a better job earlier on in the draft, because our record there, especially over the past couple of seasons so far doesn't look too good. Right now I think if Ozzie would want our team to be modeled on anyone, it'd be the Angels. Good top of the order hitters, lots of speed, great pitching and a very nice bullpen. Instead we have a team that's loaded in the middle of the lineup, but when they're not producing our lineup is going to struggle to score runs because it's not that deep. And of course the bullpen has just been a MAJOR dissapointment. We acquired a lot of hard throwers, but they haven't gotten the job done. Compare that to a team like the Padres who always have a great pen, and Kevin Towes says the secret is to acquire "strike throwers". Don't you think the Padres pitchers can afford to throw more strikes and "allow" the batters to get themselves out? The ballpark is made for that - it is huge. If "strike throwers" worked for everyone then everyone would do it. There really aren't many secrets. Kevin Tower's philosophy works in SD. Would it work in US Cell? I don't think the Sox need so much a hard thrower, but at least someone that keeps the ball down consistently or has consistent sink to their pitches to reduce the number of fly balls hit. Wouldn't you agree?

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 07:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 30th in OBP, 29th in SLG PCT, for what's supposed to be a "slugging" team. 2006, 9th (291 doubles) 2005, 14th (253 doubles, last by six) AL Team Ranks ML Rank - 21 in 2006. So what does this mean? Shouldn't total bases mean more than doubles? Why are we looking at doubles in order to assess this team? The Sox were still ahead of the great double producing Twins and only 3 behind the other great double producing Tigers. Doesn't this have a lot to do with your home ballpark as well? There are a lot of things that can affect doubles. I think total bases is a better gauge. Where do they rank in that category? I know they must be in last this year because they suck in every possible hitting category - but how about over the last couple of years? 1 TEX 357 2 CLE 351 3 TOR 348 4 KCR 335 5 ARI 331 6 BOS 327 7 NYY 327 8 COL 325 9 NYM 323 10 WSN 322 11 ATL 312 12 LAA 309 13 FLA 309 14 LAD 307 15 MIL 301 16 SDP 298 17 SFG 297 18 DET 294 19 PHI 294 20 STL 292 21 CHW 291 22 CIN 291 23 BAL 288 24 MIN 275 25 HOU 275 26 CHC 271 27 TBD 267 28 OAK 266 29 SEA 266

QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 07:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> KW must go first for failing to assemble a solid base of talent. He has brought in a bunch of wanna be sluggers who cannot put the ball in play consistently. The whole scouting department is a mess and that falls back on KW. I dont care who the manager of this team is, if the players cant play the game we are not going to win. Who are these bunch of wanna be sluggers who cannot put the ball in play? Who is in this group. Please explain. Thank you. I bet you will mention a lot - if not all - of the same players that won the World Series in 2005 but are failing to produce now. Just a hunch. And that is KW's fault. Yep - your right. QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 07:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The Sox are last in doubles in the majors by an astonishing margin of 19. That hurts - where do they rank last year and the year before with almost the exact same cast members?

QUOTE(mr_genius @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 05:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> to all you newly found cub fans, just wanna let you know, your team is 8 games below .500 in the worst division in baseball. What is your point? A below .500 team may actually be the winner of that division. That division is that bad. Sad but true. QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 06:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The Sox are actually 2.5 games closer to a playoffs spot than the Cubs are right now. I guess I assumed you were asking about who had the better chance to win the division and not just the better chance to get into the playoffs.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 04:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You forget to mention the many horrible/bad moves KW made... tell me again how many times the White Sox have been to the playoffs under KW... 90 wins and no playoffs - wait 90 wins and third place? So if they were in a worse division for years where they could just win by default that would make him a better/winning GM? How so?

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 04:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You forget to mention the many horrible/bad moves KW made... They are far outweighed by the good moves and his world series ring. However, if you want to remember just the bad ones - ok.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 04:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If he wants to spend that much money on an outfielder for next year, then hold on to Dye the rest of this year, get the high compensation picks, and then go after Ichiro. Bobby Abreu is a bad baseball player. He's lazy, and his power numbers make it look obvious he was a steroid user. Oh, and the last thing we need is another guy who can't his lefty starting pitching. I was reading a scouting report on Abreu the other day about how he looks like he's done. BTW, Jermaine Dye is likely to be the best power hitter, along with Teixeira, that could possibly be available come the trading deadline. You absolutely should expect to get good prospects in return. Ok I can agree with that. I like that plan and I like your idea. I don't watch Abreu enough to know that he is lazy. I heard that Texiera is kinda like Soriano last year - a whole lotta talk. Good prospects don't always pan out. That is the only problem I have with that. I want ML ready talent and teams are reluctant to give that up because it is cheap productive talent that they can keep for years.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 04:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thats not being a winner... thats being mediocre... besides from 05, of course. wow - ok then - how many rings does he need in order to be considered a winner? He has the best winning percentage out of any GM in White Sox history.The Sox won 90 or more games in back-to-back seasons for just the fifth time in franchise history and first time since 1963-65. Chicago also recorded 90-plus wins in consecutive seasons in 1954-55 and 1905-06. The 189 combined wins in 2005-06 are the White Sox highest total in back-to-back campaigns since winning 193 in 1964-65.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 04:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Rowand leaving and the White Sox not winning a championship last year is nothing other than pure coincidence, nothing else. Too much common sense in your post. I don't think it is going to float around here.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 04:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Didn't KW just unload Garcia and replace him with Danks this winter? He's not going to completely blow up the team, but I'm pretty sure that KW will "re-tool" the Sox. He unloaded Garcia because Garcia is not very good any longer and he knows it. That is not rebuilding though. Rebuilding is dismantelling everything to get younger cheaper and then let the losing begin. Losing is not in KWs nature.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Because for the amount of money that Abreu would take up, I'd rather get a few projectable minor leaguers and then go spend that 16 million dollars on 2 relievers and a 2nd baseman. So in other words F-U-C-K the real thing - lets go after cheap prospects who MAY be good. What if they got Abreu for half the salary then went after 2 relievers and brought up Chris Getz? I doubt we ever spend that much for relievers anyway. It doesn't seem very smart to spend that type of money on relievers. You usually don't get your money's worth. QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 04:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thats why KW will not be here much longer What don't you like about KW. The fact that the White Sox have the 6th best record in the major leagues the last 5 years. The fact that he has never had a losing season? Yeah - lets get rid of a winner. We don't need those kind of people. People that want to win all the time suck.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 04:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Like I and many others have said numerous times, this team needs a rebuilding. I don't see how anyone can realistically think we can compete with the Indians and Tigers, and even the Twins, with this current team and with such little trade bait we have... Rebuilding is not going to happen under KWs watch. Get that through your thick skull.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 03:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Dye for Abreu would be a lateral move (at best). We'd be better off trading Dye for a top prospect... Boo Dye and Abreu - Hooray prospects! I really don't understand this logic. Unless of course this prospect is major league ready - but then why would the other team do that deal.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 03:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If this was a winning team, they'd be above .500.... embarrising to see 100+ million dollar preform like garbage... If you want this to be a winning team and if you want the best for Fields you would leave him where he is at. If you want this team to lose and for Fields to possibly lose confidence or not be fully prepared for this giant step, then please by all means bring him up. Fields does not help this team win as much as Crede can - at this point in time.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 03:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Joe Cowley Thank you for the post. If they are mad at that then they are a bunch of morons. What do they want him to say?

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 03:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> On the Score this morning, they said members within the organization were upset that he didn't seem to care if he stayed with the team or not. If that is true then that is a bunch of bulls***. Who said this? North? That other bafoon - what's his name - Murph's old partner..

QUOTE(russ99 @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 03:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'd go for a Rowand for MacDougal (and a Sox prospect not named Fields, Sweeney or Broadway) trade. Erstad and Pods can platoon in LF if and when they're back at full strength. Maybe we could move Anderson in this deal, but I'd think the Sox don't want to give up on him yet. Borchard got three chances before he was dealt and B.A.'s really only gotten one. Maybe the Sox can give "pink" Floyd back to Philly. So the Jerry Owens era is over? F-U-C-K BA. He has a bad attitude, sucks ass, and is a moron. If he deserves another chance then it is not on my favorite team. Borchard was a totally different person and player. He actually cared and tried. BA sucks. I wouldn't give up Floyd for Rowand.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 11:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Now I'm actually kinda worried that this trade might happen. Sounds like the organization is pissed that Dye said baseball is a business, and if he gets traded, he'll go play hard somewhere else. Only in this organization can someone say the politically correct thing....and get in hot water for it. They are mad about that? What is he supposed to say? That is ludicrous! Where did you hear or read this? QUOTE(caulfield12 @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 12:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> With the irony that KW, Guillen and Reinsdorf are about the most politically incorrect. Over the years, we've parted with Durham, Foulke, McDowell, Howry, McCarthy, Widger, Wunsch...some, if not all, were pretty outspoken as players and-or as union reps. So to sum it up, "love" Ozzie speak, as long as it's not from the players themselves. I was happy to see all of them go besides McDowell.

QUOTE(robinventura23 @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 03:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Speaking of that, I actually would still rather have David Riske. That's saying a lot these days. PUKE!!!!!

QUOTE(Maverick0984 @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 03:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Overrated? Everyone here is conceding he isn't an all star player but it is his intangibles that are great for this team. What about that is overrated? That doesn't even make sense. Please stop with these intangibles everyone! What intangibles does Rowand posess that will make the entire lineup start hitting better and have the bullpen start pitching better. He is not the reason or solution. He is a nice player - yes - but not a reason or solution for this team. Plus, like others have stated, they can get him for nothing when the season is over.They just have to sign him. It doesn't make sense to give up McDougal for Rowand. It just doesn't. Unless McDougal is hurt in someway that can't be fixed - then by all means get what you can for him. QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Right, Aaron Rowand is good at making diving catches on the fringe of the outfield grass and infield dirt. The best - the jedi knight has mystical powers that can do anything. QUOTE(Maverick0984 @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 03:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> whose name rhymes with ashbashquashugal. Carl Everett?

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 03:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually if Jose Mesa gets one more out, Thome would have a ring already. Joe Freaking Table That is a damn shame.

QUOTE(WHITESOXRANDY @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The truth is that if all it takes is a bullpen arm to get Dukes, the Sox should do it. The guy could end up being a great player for a long time and maybe...just maybe a decent enough guy. And, if he doesn't ? It's not like they gave up anything special. On the other hand he could possibly disrupt your entire clubhouse and team and have what could have been championship years and created enough turmoil and distractions to turn them into mediocre or bad teams. So he could cost you that way - not just in players you are giving up. I am just presenting both arguments here. I wouldn't know which way to go with this. He is a hell of a talent, but you are getting a lot of baggage with him. Tough tough decision.

QUOTE(South Side Fireworks Man @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't understand why so many people seem to despise a player giving 100% and playing hard all the time and contributing to the team with his attitude and leadership. I guess all that matters is the stat sheet. I don't despise him at all. I love Rowand and I love his attitude, but to think that is all this team needs or he is the reason for the losing of last season is far far far from true.

QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You must have stopped watching games after the all star break last year because the hitting was was very mediocre in the 2nd half. Oh - my fault - the pitching was there in the 2nd half? I could have sworn that was still awful as well. The only reason they had any chance at all was because of their hitting.

QUOTE(29thandPoplar @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> southsideirish: May I say in the short time I've been here you are one of my favorite posters. I tend to agree with your views but its not just that aspect. You tend to present a balanced viewpoint and it is obvious you have been a fan that has seen the ups and downs. Living down in the neighborhood, sometimes we hear things. Some of it is nonsense and yes there is a fair amount of bar chatter which turns out to be shall we say embellishment. But I quoted that part of your post for a reason. There are guys who are in and around the neighborhood who work for the team and have their ear to the ground, no they are not in the GM room so it is unfair of me to say they "know" something. Generally though the group that works there is pretty close knit, Reinsdorf likes to have a "family" atmosphere. Those people do have a sense of whats going on and things get said, things get passed along. Anyway I do know this, Williams right now is boiling. He is prob. as pissed as he has ever been and he has been quiet because he doesnt want to say the wrong things to the media, thats how pissed off he is. Talk about a competitive guy. I have been fortunate enough to spend a bit of time around him here and there over the last few years and he chooses his words carefully in public but he tries to be as direct and honest as possible. What this means is its my somewhat educated guess this bullpen shakeup is the first change, and not the last. Well duh I think fans know that. The SunTimes article today on JD and Abreu was interesting. Lets face it the Sox were hoping Sweeney would be ready to go for '08 and he may be but they have their doubts as they feel he was overmatched at the plate. He may need more time. Whoever the ST writer was who wrote that story, he quoted a Sox source saying that rumor has some legs. One thing you can bet, Guillen does not care if a guy is from Venezuela or Mars or Pluto but he wants guys who can get on base. Sox have been woefully weak in that dept. Among other shortcomings. Thank you. I appreciate that.