southsideirish

QUOTE(diegotony06 @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 05:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What looks riduculous is this team, and what reeks of unintelligence is our hitting coach, manager, and GM. Anyone who think this team will even sniff coming close to the playoffs, now that is ridiculous and reeks of unintelligence. At some point people have to be held accountable for their actions. It's just the way life is. If you have a job, and you f*** up at it by not doing your job for over 2 months then most likely, you get fired. That's just the way it is. So since this team has been playing like s*** since last july, then I think it's time for people to be held accountable. As for people who don't agree, hey that's fine. I have no problem with that. But to start saying people are not intelligent or sound like teenagers, when they are just expressing their opinion, then to me that's ridiculous and unintelligent. Kudos to your way of thinking. Good for you. I never said someone was unintelligent, what I did say was the opinion was unintelligent and sounded like a teenagers opinion. Sorry you disagree, but keeping 4 players is fantasy land thinking.

QUOTE(diegotony06 @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 05:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG Uribe 44 146 14 31 4 0 5 21 50 12 38 1 0 .276 .342 .212 Vizquel 51 190 22 44 8 1 0 14 54 13 23 3 3 .283 .284 .232 I just don't see how he would improve this team. And he plays in a weaker league. Tading for him would be a move backwards, not forward. How far of a move backwards can you go from Uribe? This whole argument is making me laugh. I don't care one way or another. I am just saying Vizquel is not at all worse than Uribe. QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 06:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I thought he never had any managing ability? The simple truth is he doesn't have the horses right now. This team is bad! You really think he would have to give up anything for an aging vet?

QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Jun 2, 2007 -> 05:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You still haven't explained how or when the hitting coach is responsible. When the entire team sucks ass for months on end and all seem to have the same terrible approach, there's probably something in common. If he isn't responsible for a terrible offensive approach and production over the last 100 games or so, when is he responsible? How do we evaluate his job? How do we know when he is or isn't performing well? What is this approach you speak of? I see many different ways they are making outs with many different approaches. I think he should lose his job if he is unorganized, he loses the players, the players don't like him or are not buying into what he is saying. There are many other reasons that go into firing a coach besides just looking at stats. A fan can not evaluate his job - so we can't - you can't - you don't know what is going on in the clubhouse or how he is relating to the players. Asking for a change in a coach as a fan is a cosmetic change - something that will look like a change to the outside world - but on the inside it will remain the same and is actually no change at all. To some that is all they want. Make it look like a change is happening. Make the fan feel all warm and fuzzy inside like something is happening for the better and everything will be ok. A fan has no idea what is right for the club - how could they? QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 06:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> A long and looping swing can jam. Bat drag through the zone can jam even if you cheat on the pitch a bit. This is why they miss straight as an arrow fastballs over the middle of the plate. OK, so now Walker is teaching long and looping swings? As far as I can tell from when he talks this is not what he teaches at all. Maybe this is an organizational problem starting in the minor leagues? WIll changining the team's major league hitting coach really have any sort of affect on this?

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 03:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Williams is the GM. Having the worst farm system in major league baseball can be laid directly at his feet. At the major league level, I agree that he's been adequate -- no terrible moves of late and no great ones either. But the minor league system is a debacle that may doom the Sox to irrelevance for a decade. It's not unreasonable to call for him to be fired for that. Really? The worst? QUOTE(gosox41 @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 02:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So the hitters need to adapt. Is PK going to be benched if he starts getting base hits to RF because he's not pulling the ball??? Experienced hitters need to make adjustments on the fly. That's what good hitters do. Z Bob Plus, if this is the case and they only pitch our hitters low and away then how do our hitters ever get jammed. I mean our hitters are so pull happy with their lift and pull techniques that Walker supposedly preaches to them that I am amazed our hitters ever get jammed by the inside pitch. Yet, they do. Very strange.

QUOTE(diegotony06 @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 04:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm with you. I don't understan the Vizquel love. Just what we need someone to make this team older and slower!! He is slower than Uribe? I don't buy that.

QUOTE(Soxfest @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 04:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> KW made his bed and I want to see him squirm out the this disaster HE created! That's great. I wish this on everyone involved with my favorite team. Genius I tell you, genius. Let's not hope everything can get better somehow, lets hope things keep going the way they are and KW can squirm. Remarkable. You don't think he had a good plan with the bullpen guys he was picking up? It didn't work our, but the plan made sense and it seemed like a good one at the time. The first month the bullpen was lights out and everyone was loving it. Now the second month they are getting lit up and people are calling for KW's head. Do you think he knew it was going to be like this and still did those deals? Getting Pods to re-sign was not the best, but he didn't have many options. He was looking for a speedy leadoff hitter and the others in that category were getting ridiculous dollars. If he thought Jerry Owens was ready to step in I am sure he wouldn't have done that. Erstad was not a bad signing at all. Toby Hall was a very good signing. Are the Sox missing Garcia? THey got a ton in return for McCarthy. I just don't understand what you think he should be squirming for?

QUOTE(RibbieRubarb @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 03:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm not comparing the team to Cleveland. I'm using your overreaction as an example as why reasonable and knowledgable Baseball people don't just "Blow a team up" when they are playing bad for less then a year. Your theory is still silly. Keep only four players?!? Exactly. Firing coaches and Gms are what Cub fans hope for and think will change everything and make everything right. Pinella is in for Baker and the same s*** is happening. When you have the same types of players and bring in the same type of players as before your team will remain the same no matter what manager or coach you bring in. The theory of getting rid of a coach or blowing everything up just for the sake of doing so is riduclous nonsense and very silly. These people are all playing fantasy baseball. All my players are up for trades and available to the highest bidder. The only four untouchables I have are Buehrle, Jenks.... That just looks ridiculous and reeks of unintelligence. It sounds like a plan a teenager (sorry to stereotype) may have. Someone that thinks they know everything about everything, but actually knows nothing about anything. QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What's with all this Vizquel bulls***? His name has been mentioned numerous times over the past week and it makes no sense at all. He's 40 years old and producing like he's 40, yeah that .552 OPS is f***ing hot. The guy is a lesser player than Uribe at this point in his career and will be a free agent at the end of the season, talk about a terrible fit. Yeah he is having a bad year, but to say he is lesser than Uribe is bulls***. Uribe is terrible and lately can't even play defense. If he can't play defense then he is worthless. Vizquel can at least do that and do the little things well.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 2, 2007 -> 04:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Greg Walker himself said on an interview that a team that looks to pull and hit home runs would be categorized by a team that scores a lot of their runs on homers, has a low batting average, low OBP and a lot of strikeouts with few hits. Greg Walker himself said in an an interview that he does not preach the lift and pull approach and he has no idea where this term is coming from and why it is being labled on him.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 2, 2007 -> 04:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So if Konerko say opens up his stance one day, on his own and he starts to pull everything to the third baseman and strikeout on the low and away pitch. Walk shouldnt say a thing to him, because he is a vet. Thats rich. Its not like we have a bunch of rookies on the team. If he cant help with mechanical issues with hitters then why is he paid. Where did I say this? Helping is teaching? Looking at tape is teaching? Wouldn't that be more along the lines of organizing? Is Konerko being taught to lift and pull everything by a major league coach? Is that what you are saying? Because if you are - then that is rich. QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 2, 2007 -> 04:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't drink either, sorry. I just want you to come up with some sort of idea to make things better. Will it happen? No. Will we get better? No. Will your boy Greg Walker even have a job after this year? I highly doubt it, even though what we think doesn't matter. The whole point of message boards are discussion about something you care about. When that something sucks, you come up with thoughts and discussion about it. Things don't go from bad to good without change, and if you had your way, we'd never change anything, except the players. Give Walker a lifetime deal, it's not his fault the players don't perform. Sorry, this time "I asked the question first". I have let you dig your own hole of looking stupid without you answering any questions, now I'll wait for you to actually answer and laugh at what you say. The point is to discuss and have possible solutions. I agree. Give Walker a lifetime deal. I agree. What was the question you want me to answer for you SCF?

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 2, 2007 -> 04:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you dont think that this team tries to pull just about everything this year then I guess you just show up here to argue with people and you dont actually follow the team. We just happen to run into Cy Young every game. Its just a simple coincidence that the pitcher spots us low and away. They are pitching us there just based on plain luck. No plan of attack, just pure luck. Then what you are saying is that our team from the GM down - because he is watching the games too - sees this and our ENTIRE TEAM refuses to make an adjustment? They are not adjusting to what other teams are doing? You believe the White Sox as a team/organization is this stupid? Really? YOu think that you see something that the rest of the organization doesn't? Or do you think they all see it and still go on doing the same crap anyway for no reason at all? If it is the second then what makes you think they will bring in a hitting coach that will tell them to do something different? If the entire organization sees this and doesn't want it changed why would they bring in a different hitting coach to change it?

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 2, 2007 -> 04:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What do YOU think they do? Why do they have a job if they don't teach, that's the whole point of coaching isn't it? Are they there to be the players friends? Really? You think they are teaching veteran players like Konerko, Dye, Thome, and Erstad? You honestly believe this? What are the coaches teaching these players? Please tell me this. PLEASE!

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 2, 2007 -> 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I am not comparing Bevington and Manuel to anyone. You are the one with the silly argument of how it cant possibly be anyones but the individual players fault. Except for the fact that we went through this routine a few years ago when we got rid of Valentin, Carlos Lee, and others who were "problems' and were selfish. We revamped the players already. Now we are back into 04 lift and pull wait for the home run mode again. But you are right, lets get rid of all these players and get new ones. And then when Walk ruins them also, we can then finally fire him. Its so easy to have roster turnover, but its so hard to find a guy to work on mechanics of hitting. Maybe you can tell me what a hitting coaches job description is Captain Apologist. Where did I say get rid of all these players? How about a couple? How has Walker ruined them? Did he teach Erstad to lift and pull - because I didn't notice him doing that. Will he teach Owens that? Oh - wait just the ones doing terribly bad right? Walker is really teaching our players to lift and pull? He is teaching them bad mechanics? Do you really believe what you are saying? QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 2, 2007 -> 04:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> LOL. Cubs fans are too busy not watching the game to care about the coaches or players. Stereotype Cub fans ignore everything of relevance and make bland statements with no point to them and talk about how they aren't players and shouldn't care about anything but the beer. That is you, not me. I don't watch the games? I don't drink alcohol. The stereotypical Cub fan blames the coaches and management because it is the easiest thing to do. It is the easiest thing to blame the coach and management for everything wrong and go out and get new ones. It then makes it seem like there was a change in atmosphere to the dumb fans of the team. That would be you.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 2, 2007 -> 04:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why have coaches? These are major league players, not high school, college, or minor league ball. You don't teach players in the major leagues, they should know. Major coaches do other things - or do you think they really teach? Just asking - because maybe you believe they do teach. I am not sure - do you?

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 2, 2007 -> 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You have made every point the dumb fan ever makes to defend bad. Congrats, you are the stereotype Cub fan. I'm sure Walk could fix their problems, unless of course the players don't want him to. It is all on the players, after all, just like it's all on the employees at your job. Really? I thought more Cub fans were like you. When something isn't working FIRE THE COACHES!!!!!! Those are the stereotypical Cub fans I know. Plus the stereotypical Cub fans are the ones that think they are part of the team. You're not - you're a fan. It is them/they - not us/we - unless you actually play for them and are a fan at the same time - which I am sure you are not.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 2, 2007 -> 04:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Your not making points, your just blaming the players. It doesn't work that way, if it did coaches wouldn't exist. And what does my batting average have to do with anything, it's not my fault they aren't hitting. It's all on the players, right? They right. We are not playing. They are. It is not our offense. It is their offense. It is our favorite team, but we do not play for it. Maybe coaches are there to do more than just teach. This is not high school, college, or minor league ball here. What are major league hitting coaches teaching them?

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 2, 2007 -> 04:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You have yet to make a point why Walker should still be employed. You just keep blaming the players and pointing out how last year we were so awesome, when in reality our offense the last 3 months sucked and was a big reason why we sat at home in October. We? I don't take the field, do you? Our offense? Again, I don't play for the White Sox and I didn't know you did either. So you think Walker had/has everything to do with the suck part of the offense and nothing to do with the awesome part? If that is the case then yes he should be fired. Players should only get credit for the awesome part and the hitting coach should get all of the credit for the suck part. I totally agree with you - fire him immediately. YOu have changed my mind.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 2, 2007 -> 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Take a gander over the last 7 years of runs scored, batting average, and all. Notice that only the last few had Walks stamp of approval on it. Notice for the most part, its pretty much about the same. Year in and Year out. Well except for this year. Teams fire their hitting coaches. It happens all the time. In fact Walker said that there are only 2 other coaches that are still in the league since he came on. I know he did. So what does that matter? I don't think he should be.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 2, 2007 -> 04:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How was Ward at fault. How was Von Joshua. Papa Jack. Walt Hrniak etc etc etc In fact why did we fire Terry Bevington, Jerry Manuel. because its not their fault that the team couldnt play well. When did Terry and Jerry go to bat or pitch for their players. Are you honestly comparing Terry Bevington and Jerry Manuel to good coaches? I don't have a reason for you - I am sure those situations are different. I don't see this situation the same. Why don't you tell me why those were fired. I think Walt Hriniak was having trouble getting through and relating to some players if I recall correctly. That is a reason to be fired. Is this the case with Walker? Do you know the reasons the others were fired? Please shed some light on the situation for me please oh great and knowledgable one. QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 2, 2007 -> 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As soon as you explain to me when it IS the hitting coaches fault. I have answered some of your questions, you ignore mine since you have no defense for Walker. Btw, why did we NOT hit the 2nd half last year and miss the playoffs? Oh yeah, it's because the first half of the year lift and pull worked and the 2nd half other teams adjusted and our hitting coaches philosophy didn't. If you look at the one you replied to I asked first. Answer away. That answer is ridiculous. Are you telling me other teams adjusted and the Sox haven't adjusted back? By the way, what is your batting average? I don't think I have seen you out there hitting. Just asking.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 2, 2007 -> 04:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well when your team is last in baseball in every major offensive, can't hit the ball the other way, can't score men from 3rd with 0 outs, and has a payroll more than the Devil Rays....it might be a sign your hitting coach isn't doing a damn thing worth anything. I can't REALLY make an argument here though, no matter what I say, you'll fall back to the ignorant "it's on the players" crutch. I'm not sure why I am even responding actually. What would YOU do to fix this? Fire all the players? Good luck, and who would replace them? We going to put Rogowski at 1st? That was a coincidence. They started hitting because the players grinded more and tried harder, hitting coaches don't affect anything, it's all on the players. lol. I don't know how I would handle it, but I wouldn't fire Walker because veteran hitters who hit well before are not hitting under the same hitting coach. That is assinine. Why did these same exact players hit well last year? Any reason? Can you riddle me that bat man? QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 2, 2007 -> 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What can a hitting coach do to deserve being fired? Is it EVER his fault? I'm just curious, your logic is an everlasting blame of the players after all. The coaches don't go between those lines and play. Turn it right back around and tell me why it is the hitting coach's fault in this instance. I;m just curious on your logic that it is the hitting coach's fault when the same players and hitting coach were here a year ago and hit well.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 2, 2007 -> 03:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So if the entire team all at once slumps for 2 or more months its not the hitting coaches fault. Then why employ one. Konerko had a couple of hitting coaches before Walk, and hit just fine. Dye hit well before he came here also. Crede had one good year. AJ is no longer an all fields line drive hitter, he is a myopic pull and lift hitter. If it isnt the hitting coaches fault, why did we fire Ward, and Von Joshua. Why doenst a team just keep a hitting instructor forever then. In 05 the Indians hit like crap, not as bad as this disaster. But bad. They fired Murray and just took off. Why is it the hitting coach's fault? They hit the last couple years under Walker didn't they? Do you think he is telling them to do something different? So you think firing Walker is the solution? You think they are going to get their heads out of their asses and start to hit once Walker is gone? Why would that be? So all these players hit good last year and they can't hit this year under the same hitting coach, except for A.J. because he is a myopic pull and lift hitter (which he has been since he signed here by the way). Maybe those other guys were idiots and that is why they fired him. How do I know? I was not around that team or in the clubhouse. How do you know? QUOTE(lord chas @ Jun 2, 2007 -> 04:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> well when you have iguchi on third with no outs and no one can even put the ball in play that is the result of guys trying to pull everything with home run cuts. And Walker is telling them to do that from Chicago? Right? OK - I am with you. Now I want to fire Walker. Good job.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 2, 2007 -> 03:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wow somebody defending Greg Walker. Now I've seen it all. I love it though, when in doubt, use the generic "blame the players!" arguement. Based on that bit of ignorance though, no coach or GM should ever lose their job, they aren't playing the game!! *rolls eyes* Bad ones need to go sure. Tell me, since I am so ignorant, how Walker is at fault for Konerko, Dye, and Thome going 0-50 and for Crede hitting like crap. As soon as you figure that out please post that little gem.

QUOTE(lord chas @ Jun 2, 2007 -> 03:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> greg walker is flat out stealing his paychecks Greg Walker hits for this team? What is his batting average? Hasn't he been the same hitting coach for Konerko and Dye the past 3 seasons now? Wasn't he the hitting coach for Crede's career year? For Podsednik's great first year? Yeah - he must be telling them to do something different this year. I can see why he would want to do that. Plus the players seem to really hate him with a passion. They keep saying bleeping Walker told me to go up and do this and it just isn't working! How about putting the blame on the players? Nah - that would be pointless. QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Jun 2, 2007 -> 03:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Where is the armchair owner thread? KW needs to go. Yeah he has needed to go for a while now. Even before they won in 2005 people were calling for his head. It is about time they finally kicked his ass to the curb. Probably the worst GM in baseball. Get a clue people.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 2, 2007 -> 02:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why insult my own intelligence though? It's like people thinking we'll go after ARod this year. You are part of some group that may go after A-Rod? The Sox have went after A-Rod twice already, why wouldn't you think they would go after him again if he is indeed available? If you want to be mr. negativity then go ahead - even make yourself feel better and tell yourself you are just being realistic (which is a joke). However, you and everyone like you could keep it to yourselves. It is easier to be negative and be right, which is what most negative people seem to care about - being right. There is also the common negative person's battle cry - "I don't think this will work, but I would love to be proven wrong." Most on here hate Jay Mariotti and his negative bulls*** about the team we love, but at the same time a lot of posters seem to be exactly like him. As far as Buehrle - he seems to be different than other pitchers the Sox have just let walk or traded away. I could be wrong and the Sox may not give a crap about re-signing him, but I believe they will make every effort possible. Many here were wrong about not being able to re-sign Paulie as well. I hate the negative attitudes.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 2, 2007 -> 11:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Or maybe just some of us know how JR feels about signing pitcher to long-term contracts and what Buehrle's value is going to be on the open market. Every situation is different. How about not guessing about every thing and thinking the worst. That would be nice, wouldn't it?

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 1, 2007 -> 11:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Considering there were about 6 misplayed balls by Cubs players in today's game alone I don't think he was speaking of any one player specifically. After watching the Murton/Jones/Soriano suck train today I don't see how you can infer such things from Lou's post game comments. It sounded like he was just pissed off after watching a group of mediocre players wearing blue pin stripes boot balls all around Wrigley for 3 hours. And define "most". Is most the 3 or so posters who said they felt sorry for him? Kind of a small sample size don't you think? How many of those same players did both a base running mistake and did not catch a ball in yesterday's game. Barrett is the only one I can think of, but you may have watched more of the game than I did. I should have made myself more clear. If this was Ozzie most here, in the media, and other places would be calling for Ozzie's head and stating that he lost the clubhouse. They would want this entire coaching staff gone including the GM - which a lot - if not most - on this board are calling for already. This is not the case with Pinella and there seems to be no reason for that. Cubs fans are sheep, I will grant you that, but there is not a more "sky is falling" type of attitude than that of the majority of Sox fans and it drives me nuts. I love my team but I can't stand the majority of the so called "die-hard" fans that we have. There always seems to be wrong with something on this team or in the organization that the majority of our fans just can't let go. It is always the negative first. That attitude freaking sucks. Just look at a lot of these posters - enjoy the last 2 months of Buehrle - no chance in re-signing him. These same fans have no knowledge of what is going on behind the scenes and just want to think about the worst. Plus who cares about players we lost and are now on other teams? F-U-C-K EM! Root for the players on your favorite team - cheer for them to do good and forget about the lost players. Most of the players we lost suck as anyway. Very few have turned out to be anything at all, but yet some can't let them go.