southsideirish

QUOTE(LVSoxFan @ Jun 1, 2007 -> 09:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Anybody see the postgame with Lou when he lost it at the end? Talking about just get him some damn players who can catch a ball and run bases? When you see this kind of disintegration somehow our Sox problems, bad as they are, seem minor. I feel bad for Pinella, I really do. Taking that gig is like taking the Captain gig of the Titanic. Don't you think he was speaking specifically about Barett who made a baserunning blunder either in this game or last game and then couldn't catch a pitch from Zambrano and proceeds to throw the ball into left field? I think he was and he was almost excusing Zambrano for his behavior or giving Zambrano an excuse as to why it happened. Can you imagine if this happened on the White Sox? Everyone here would be saying Ozzie has lost the team, he needs to go, blah blah blah. I can't imagine what would be going on if this happened with the White Sox, but most on here would be calling for Ozzie's head. On the other hand, it happens to our cross town rivals and most here "feel sorry for" Lou Pinella. Very strange.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 1, 2007 -> 08:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> .229 battin average, .773 OPS...SEXY! Are you going by what he is doing this year only? GENIUS!!

QUOTE(SoxFanForever @ Jun 1, 2007 -> 01:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So we put our best arm in left, our best cf in right and the worst OF of the 3 in center? Where do i sign up? I believe he just messed up RF and LF. Switch those 2 and he has it right. Owens is not a very good CFer at all. In fact he is barely decent in LF. I don't think that OF is very good anyway. There is no run producer or HR threat in that OF and you need that. Now if you substitute Andruw Jones for Aaron Rowand I would agree.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Jun 1, 2007 -> 04:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think its obvious that we're going to end up with either Tim Lincicum or Matt Cain... How about Crede for Vizquel and one of their young 2B or Burris? That could be nice.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ May 31, 2007 -> 10:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I guess im the only one excited at maybe seeing Owens get extended time leading off? If that is true I am excited about seeing it. I don't want to see a combination of Mack and Terrero in LF and Owens playing CF. I want Tererro in CF and Owens in LF leading off on almost a daily basis.

QUOTE(spiderman @ May 31, 2007 -> 08:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Anderson should be brought up and be given another chance. Just a year ago, he was our future CF. True, he struggled, but if we're not going to hit, we need to have defense on the field. He did hit well in the minors, and we'll see how far he's in the doghouse as he plays CF better than anyone else who could be brought up. He can't hit, has an attitude problem, and is a complete moron. Besides that - yeah you're right he needs another chance - just not on my favorite team.

QUOTE(BearSox @ May 31, 2007 -> 08:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As much you don't want someone to get injured, it is kinda good now that Erstad will hopefully not get his 600 AB's this year, resulting in a 6 million dollar payday for him, most likely. Where do you get this stuff? Where is this supposedly 6 million dollar option you are talking about. Show me proof of it please. There is no such thing. Yeah, you're right - Anderson is the answer.

QUOTE(spiderman @ May 31, 2007 -> 08:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm hear to add some sombering thoughts. Enjoy his last 20 starts with the White Sox because chances are he'll pitching for a new team next season. Hell, he could be gone in 2 months if the White Sox can't get this going. He'd bring a boat load of prospects, and Kenny is going to have to think about that if the White Sox are buried by the Indians. I hope Buehrle stays. I really don't like the thought of him on another team. If we want to get younger we should try to get what we can for the 60 year old that is the number 1 starter for our team. If we can keep Buehrle as a one and have the rest of the rotation with (2) Garland (3) Danks (4) Vazquez (5) Floyd/Gonzalez/Massett then it is both realistically affordable and young. That is if Buehrle isn't looking for Zito money. If he is then forget the whole thing. I don't think he is though. I would rather trade Crede and bring up Fields, Iguchi and give Chris Getz a chance (not sure if he is ready, but I like his attitude, the way he plays, and his numbers), Dye and bring up Sweeney. That is if the Sox are going to start looking at young players. If they are going to trade to try to compete this year then I would like to find a way to get Ichiro, Alexis Rios, and maybe a bullpen guy to go along with Jenks, Thorton and Massett. I still have faith McDougal will get right as well.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ May 31, 2007 -> 09:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well in a bought of self preservation, we should have a new hitting coach if the Walkerball express keeps its suckiness in tact. You're right, it's definitely the coach's fault. No doubt about that. We can't blame every single player for hitting like complete crap, it has to be something the coach is doing. Great catch - awesome post.

QUOTE(GreenSox @ May 30, 2007 -> 10:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It certainly is not a defensive improvement. And it looks like more of an offensive improvement than it really is because everyone else is hitting so miserably. So we take Erstad and his zero power and .310 OBP, instead of taking a risk on a young player. That's a poor decision, imo, because Erstad is so mediocre that is easily worth the risk to play a young player. As it is, Anderson improved in 2006, outplayed Erstad in the spring - but he isn't an ozzie-style player that hacks away at every pitch. And it doesn't even have to be Anderson - play Sweeney, play Fields, play Owens...someone with potential. It sure beats the guaranteed mediocrity of erstad. Anderson is such a bad player I can't believe anyone can still back him. Erstad outplayed him during the REGULAR season both hitting and defensively. Erstad is much better than Anderson. He may be mediocre, but Anderson is awful. Sweeney is not ready yet and he should be in the minors getting more at bats and getting ready to be a major league player. There is no need to rush him. Fields and Owens can't play CF so those comparisons are ridiculous. Should we trade Crede and play Fields? Possibly. Owens has the potential to be what? A less productive Scooty P? I think I will pass and keep playing Mack or Terrero in LF. Owens has the potential to be mediocre and that is as high as his ceiling goes. I find it strange that some here want to play the younger players just for the hell of it. They must be better than what we already have on the field right? WRONG! They could be a lot worse. Even if they are the same in talent they will make young player mistakes and lose more games for you that way. It could get a lot worse if you start playing all these younger players. A LOT worse.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How did this turn into an argument about his trade value? We were talking about Ozzie prefering veterans over young players. Someone brought up a great example of this. The great example brought this conversation on. I am just guessing. I could be wrong. QUOTE(Kalapse @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> El Duque has already missed a month due to injury. Oh yeah. Lets see how long McCarthy is out with a boo boo on his finger.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And Duque's pitching in one of the best pitcher's parks in the NL, and McCarthy in one of the worst pitcher's parks in the AL. I'm very happy with what we've seen from Danks so far, but I really think McCarthy will put up respectable numbers this year. I would say it's about a 60 pct chance that Danks ends the season with a better ERA than McCarthy. I will cheer for my favorite team's players and could care less about ex-white sox. You cheer for other team's players if you want. Kudos to you.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Let's see....he pitched a gem at Texas after we had been embarrassed the few games before it. Remember the Buehrle debacle with accusing the other team of stealing signs? He had a great game at Boston in which no one in the world gave us a shot due to having to make it up. At that point in the season, one or two games meant everything. If the Indians ever overtook the Sox in the standings, who knows what would have happened. So 3 games? OK. Yeah - McCarthy is/was overrated. We got at least 2 and maybe 3 good players for him. Good job Kenny.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> KW was pitching about the velocity about a week before the season started. Is KW the coach or manager? Thank you.

QUOTE(SoxAce @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Still? I can't remember when he was putting up better numbers than BMac in the first place especially in 05 and I'm not counting when El Duque was with the Yanks and when BMac wasn't even in the league yet. Pitching in the weak NL does help your cause as well for El Duque. This year.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's both....if you hear Cooper speak, he never says a problem with the pitcher is lack of velocity. He's always say it's command and movement. Even last year, they wouldn't say they were concerned with Buehrle's velocity. I don't know what the answer is....the loss of velocity across the board for our pitchers is one of the most irritating things I've witnessed as a Sox fan. If a pitcher has lost velocity you don't want to let them know it is a problem. He would never say that. I would look at their training program and who gives it to them. Maybe then we could see if there is a problem with that. The training program and how they keep themselves in shape is what has most to do with losing velocity. It is an explosive movement. They need to be in the right shape to be able to pitch. QUOTE(Dick Allen @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> McCarthy wasn't very good last year, but his ERA was lower than Vazquez's. So if he's bad coming out of the bullpen what does that make Vazquez? Last year Vazquez was not good. I'd still take him over McCarthy. McCarthy is an overrated piece of garbage who thought way too highly of himself.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, it cost us a few games during the tailspin of 2005. Thankfully, McCarthy was able to be a slump breaker, as he had some huge games when he finally got his chance. For as overrated as he was on this site, his contributions during 2005 are massively underrated. He has what, 3 good games? Yeah - massively underrated.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It damn near cost the Sox the division. El Duque finally had to be put to sleep for a while and McCarthy won some big games. Ozzie didn't want the young guy in the rotation last year either, so Vazquez gets picked up using up money that could have been spent on other things and the Sox best prospect in years goes away. So El Duque was tired? He needed a rest before the playoff run. He was great in the playoffs wasn't he? Without him we may have not got past Boston. Thank God McCarthy didn't make the roster. He is no good coming out of the bullpen. The way McCarthy pitched last year I didn't want him in there either. After seeing him pitch this year I am much happier with Vazquez over McCarthy. Good job Ozzie.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Many pitching coaches believe you get more movement if you don't throw as hard. MacDougal is someone who they told to try and get more sink on his fastball instead of trying to throw it at 97 mph. It worked last year, as he was getting tons of grounders. Javy Vazquez is another person who is trying to throw with less velocity in order to get more command. I agree about the negative impact of overthrowing, but Thornton is someone who just need to focus more on throwing strikes instead of blowing it by every hitter. Now command = movement? Which is it? You are all over the place. My thought is he is not telling them to lose velocity for command if they already have shown both, which both Jenks and Thorton showed last year. Do you think he is teaching them less velocity for even more command when they have already shown they had both last year?

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Brandon McCarthy vs. El Duque August 2005. How did that work out? I think El Duque is putting up better numbers than McCarthy still. McCarthy is a young stud and El Duque is regressing?

QUOTE(BearSox @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> where do you see a comparison? well, I could give you one. That shows how bad our developmental and scouting systems are. We were talking about Ozzie and not playing younger kids. You said look at the Braves and what they do with their younger kids. Ozzie learned from Bobby Cox so I imagine they would be similar. Now show me a similar young stud that Ozzie didn't play that Bobby Cox did and would have now.

QUOTE(BearSox @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Did I say we had any? You said which manager wouldn't use Vets over prospects. Like in 05/06 with the Cubs. You have a young stud on one side and a degressing vet on the other. Who do you choose? We are talking about Ozzie. You think Ozzie would not play a young stud over a regressing vet? Give me an example. Show me our young stud and our regressing vet. Do you mean our mediocre young kid and our mediore vet? I think Ozzie will choose the mediocre vet because he will not make the stupid inexperienced mistake over and over again. Now please show me an example of where Ozzie did not play a young stud over the regressing vet - without that your argument is for the crapper and is nonsense.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yep, I absolutely believe they told Thornton that he can be more effecitve at 95 mph with control than throwing 98 mph with less control. Thornton used to be wild as hell with Seattle. I even heard Aardsma say earlier in the year that he was focusing more on command than overthrowing. Jenks has often stated that he's not as concerned about his velocity as he is his command. Cooper's not the only position coach that teaches this way. Hell, Rothschild is the opposite, and his pitchers always get hurt. Griffey Jr. should be nowhere near this team from 2008 and on. Ichiro's going to get a ton of money this offseason, and when exactly was the last time that he lead his team to a good season? Also, don't buy into the hype with our minor league pitchers. Gio is our best pitching prospect (even he projects to be a 3, at best), and guys like Russell, Faustino, and Eggy still have a long way to go before they can be pencilled into the Sox rotation Overthrowing is not the same as throwing your max velocity. Overthrowing does not equal more velocity. In fact if you are overthrowing it will sometimes hurt your velocity. I am surprised you didn't know this. Thorton pitched effectively last year on the White Sox throwing near 100mph while under Coop's teachings. I believe Coop teaching command first - but if you are throwing 97-100 with command I don't believe he is teaching them to hold back and get MORE command. That is assinine. Ichiro is going to get a lot of money and he more than makes up for it from all the Japanese fans that buy his stuff. A bad team with Ichiro will go nowhere. A good team with good pitching and defense and power behind him in the lineup will go far. You can't blame ONE PLAYER for a bad baseball team's record. It may work in basketball, but not baseball. I don't have to buy into it, other GM's do. Hell, not even all GMs, just the right GM. Just like the one GM bought into Jeremy Reed. Just like certain GMs buy into the hype of certain Mets and Yanks prospects. I don't have to buy into it, but the right GM does and most likely will.

QUOTE(BearSox @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hey Bobby Cox and the Braves are horrible. They sucked for the 14 years or whatever it was where the would constantly put in young prospects. Are you honestly comparing their young prospects to ours? Plus they seem to trade a lot of them away as well to.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And now we're at a point where the veterans we've traded for are either old or their contracts are done. Now, the lack of developing our minor leaguers is killing our depth at the big league level. From what I have been reading our minors have some good pitching depth. Isn't young pitching what every team wants? Don't you think the Sox could part with couple to get some veterans (Ichiro/Griffey) to replace the ones they will be losing? Let me know if that sticks.