southsideirish

QUOTE(BearSox @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So you say you would play old mediocre "vets" over young studs any day? Especially when you're a team that needs youth desperatly? Who are our young studs that should be playing over the mediocre vets we have? Please point them out to me. PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

QUOTE(fathom @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's what we're saying...find a manager who's a little more willing to stick with young players. And if Cooper isn't the one telling the players to throw with less velocity so that they have more command, then he better be on the witch hunt to find out why it's happening to almost everyone over the last two years. The "stressful innings from the WS" excuse can't be used. WHO!?!?!?!?! What manager wants to stick with young players over veterans when given the choice? WHO? A first year manager like a Joe Girardi? He wouldn't want to be in that situation again. That is all you are going to get. A manager looking for his first opportunity. A good veteran manager doesn't want to sit back and help young kids develop. No manager worth anything wants that. You are telling me Coop went to Jenks and Thorton and told them to stop throwing near 100mph and get more control of the pitch? They had good control when they were throwing near 100mph right? But Coop wanted them to have EVEN MORE control of their pitches and throw slower? Yeah, you're right. I don't know what I was thinking. It is all Coop's fault.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The Sox haven't developed players like the Twins do. That's part of the problem. What I don't understand is why guys like Wilder and Schaefer, who are largely responsible for the players in the system and their development get promotions. Part of the problem is that they trade young players they acquire/draft (Reed, Morse, and Olivo) and get something they need and has more valuable - a proven veteran pitcher (Freddy Garcia). Organizations view the development of players differently. The Sox seem to think of them as chips to get veterans. The Twins like to develop them and then lose them to free agency.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, who really knows. However, I've been told that Cooper stresses, which is funny to say after today, command on the pitches more than velocity. Stresses, ok, I can see that. I don't think he means stop throwing 100mph if you have control with it. Didn't Big Bobby do that? I don't believe Coop made him stop. There are other things involved in the equation besides the teaching of Coop. If you are that interested in it I think a little more research should be involved before fingers start getting pointed. I'm just sayin, I'm not sayin. QUOTE(BearSox @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's not that the young players don't like Ozzie, it is because Ozzie is a lot like Dusty and would rather play the "vets" rathar then the young-ins. You make it seem like Dusty and Ozzie are the only ones like this. If given the choice, any manager would rather have the vets than the young-ins - especially on a talented championship team. EVERY MANAGER! QUOTE(fathom @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think it's a two way straight with Ozzie and the young prospects. Ozzie is so much like Dusty when it comes to his love for veterans. What manager isn't when given the choice?

QUOTE(fathom @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> We've played below .500 baseball for far too long. The biggest reason I want to see Ozzie fired is that I don't want him around our young players when we go into full rebuilding mode last year. Let him go manage the Reds and take Erstad with him. Absolutely ridiculous. Young players can't tolerate Ozzie? That is a ridiculous excuse. If that is the case then I don't want those certain young players on this team. It is sad that you have to coddle certain young players. I doubt the Sox ever go into full rebuilding mode under KW.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 30, 2007 -> 04:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'd have no problem with Cooper being gone. There has to be a reason that these guys are all losing their velocities. This is true straight years that the pitching staff, as a whole, has underachieved. Couldn't velocity have something to do with the way they are training? Maybe we should look at our trainer and the types of workout he is putting the Sox pitchers on. You really think Cooper has something to do with the reduction of velocity? Why didn't it happen before the 2005 season? Did this happen to the minor league system while he was down there? Maybe, just maybe, there is another reason than Cooper. Just throwing that out there.

QUOTE(BearSox @ May 30, 2007 -> 04:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The only two people who should be kept on the current coaching staff is Coop and Razor.... And we might need a new GM with a new point of view and who would re-tool the whole farm system coaching and player-wise. This has been the battle cry every year except 2005 from every unknowledgable baseball fan that considers themselves a Sox fan. Before they won the World Series the battle cry included Reinsdorf. People are always calling for the GM's and manager's head. It is ridiculous. You don't win by doing that. An organization is going to have its ups and downs. What an organization needs most is continuity. The only way you don't want continuity is if these are bad baseball people who have s*** for brains. This is not the case and it was proved in 2005. These are good baseball people that you just want to throw away. Why? Because they are a .500 team on May 30th? Please - let the season play out a bit. Let's see who becomes available and if they can possibly acquire an Ichiro or Griffey or Freel. You don't just start blowing s*** up because of a mediocre couple of months.

QUOTE(TheHolyBovine @ May 30, 2007 -> 03:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This is the point of the year, only you forgot about CF. This disaster is on Kenny. He needed a creative way to get another OFer this winter, and failed miserably. And I'm not talking about Crawford or Griffey...KW could have gotten Ryan Church or Scott Hairston (or someone of that ilk) for nothing in December. Eiher one of those solid guys would have made a huge differece; either one would have made the lineup more balanced, and would have made Erstad's sorry production more tolerable. But KW did the most conservative, unimaginative thing possible: He brought back Pods. I don't blame him for the pen...He got some power arms for nothing, which is what good GMs do. It hasn't worked out, but that's not for his lack of trying. The OF mess is completely his fault, and is a mistake worth losing your job over IMO...and I love KW. CF is a HUGE improvement from last year. He is actually one of the best hitters on our team this year. That is not saying much, but it's true.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ May 30, 2007 -> 11:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I still think we probably could have gotten a little bit more for BMac. But hey, I guess I can't complain about being proven wrong. More than Danks, Massett, and another young arm? For McCarthy? Brandon McCarthy? I didn't know he was that highly thought of? The Rangers got raped in that deal and you think we could have received more? WOW! Some people are just never satisfied.

Gotham Baseball has a rumor about certain Reds players being available since they are 10 games under .500 and 10 games out of first in the Central. Ryan Freel would look great leading off and playing LF for the Sox. Gotham Baseball Link Opinions?

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ May 23, 2007 -> 01:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I dont agree at all, maybe that of Ordonez post injury, but Dye has been slow out there in RF every year he has been with the whitesox. Ordonez was a better fielder for us than most seem to give him credit for. Dye does seem to catch any ball in his area but the problem is his area is smaller than most RF's. Maggs was slow and lazy in the field when he was here. I remember getting pissed off at him many times for his lack of hustle in the field. He used to love to make that slide catch, which he probably could have ran through the ball to catch it most times if he was a good fielder. His area is not smaller than Ordonez's. By the way how much is Magglio making and how much is Dye making?

QUOTE(Shamrock4Life @ May 24, 2007 -> 12:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> rick is ok, but not great. pretty good read and he even took a shot at ozzie in there, thats how i read it at least. unless jay made some comment about a 19 year old that i don't know about. What quote are you talking about in the article? A 19 year old?

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ May 23, 2007 -> 09:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> North to NYC? http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/colum...user=CTUSERNAME Please God let him go there for good!

QUOTE(TheOcho @ May 10, 2007 -> 08:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think Gooch needs more AB's in the 2nd hole before we start comparing him to Cintron's golf swing. Why can he hit ONLY in the #2 hole? That is messed up. I am really sick of him this year.

Why would Sweeney be demoted instead of Terrero for Thome? I could understand (not really, but for argument's sake) if Pods was ready because they both play the same position, but Thome is not playing the outfield. Why would you want Terrero in LF every day? Or Mack? Why do that? Sweeney looks like an everyday player. We know Mack isn't. We know Terrero isn't.

QUOTE(StrangeSox @ May 9, 2007 -> 05:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, that's clearly not what I said. At all. Thanks for confirming your severe reading comprehension problems. Again, correct! I like agreeing with you. You're welcome.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ May 9, 2007 -> 05:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The Sweeney comment wasn't directed at you, but the original poster who I quoted. Ignore that. Also -- you did say he wasn't very athletic. Also, this from Answers.com: So I guess you're half right. He didn't play, but it looks moreso due to injury. Either way, I think you'll be hard pressed to find many players with more strength them Thomas (looks) to have had coming out of college. But now I think we're just getting into semantics of what an athlete is, so... I never said he wasn't strong. He was huge and I was a fan of his from an early age, but that does not make him athletic. You have to be somewhat athletic to even get to a college football team or baseball team. I am not doubting his athleticism. I am just saying it is not in the Borch/BA area.

I remember these same complaints about KW and Reinsdorf before we won the World Series. KW is not a winner and his trades suck. The David Wells trade blows. We gave up the great Kip Wells, Josh Fogg, and Sean Lowe for Todd Ritchie! Dude we got fleeced. Oh no, not again, we gave up Jeremy Reed and Miguel Olivo for Freddy Garcia? We will never win this thing with KW and Reinsdorf. Reinsdorf has to sell the team before we win anything. You mean we just let go of D'Angelo Jimenez for nothing? He was a winner! Jose Valentin is a winner! WE SUCK! Then, just about 2 years later the White Sox are World Champions. Unbelievable, because Jerry still owns the team and KW is still the GM, so what changed? Maybe our fans just suck and are whining complaining little sissy b****es that should leave the coaching and GMing to the people that know what they are doing and actually know their own players. I understand second guessing, but wanting and wishing for people to lose their jobs make some of you so called fans complete asswipes. I could even understand not liking a player because he sucks ass, but to not like a manager or coach because a player is not doing the job he usually does? That is a little messed up. Most of our guys that are struggling are proven good hitters. They are not hitting so the Sox are not winning. It has very little, if anything, to do with the manager and coaches. They are not on the field hitting, pitching, and fielding. QUOTE(caulfield12 @ May 9, 2007 -> 05:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> For those 50% of you trying to fire Ozzie today, who exactly do you want? Let me guess, the anti-Ozzie, so that means Joe Girardi, right? Someone who will bring "law and order" back to the Sox clubhouse...because that style works so well with the likes of AJ, Crede, Buehrle and Rowand? Girardi is fine with a young team, just like Manuel was...but for a veteran team? If we're going to rebuild completely, I wouldn't be totally against it. But I would rather start over with the Twins' scouts and Ozzie as manager than with the Sox scouts and Gardenhire as manager. Girardi would never take this job. I totally agree with you on the scouting, but then we also have to change our whole philosophy of the type of player we are looking for and the way the kids are taught/coached in the minors.

QUOTE(StrangeSox @ May 9, 2007 -> 05:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 2nd and 3rd? Yeah. And I updated it a little, so there were two more 2nd year guys. I clearly stated that Cooper had been with the organization for a long time and that he was in his fifth year as hitting coach. And you must have a reading comprehension problem because I also clearly stated that new coaches doesn't equate to winning. I was refuting your claim that old coaching staffs lead to winning. You are completely right on all accounts. 2nd, 3rd, and 5 year coaches = new. Clearly that is correct. Old coaching staffs do not lead to winning, exactly, I don't know what I was thinking. How could I even begin to debate these ideas. I was completely wrong in my way of thinking. How could I possibly have a different opinion than yours?

QUOTE(StrangeSox @ May 9, 2007 -> 05:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The Sox won the series in Guillen's second year. It was Walker's 3rd season. Cooper was around the organization for a long time, and he was in his 5th year. Seems like it was some relatively fresh guys (to their positions at least) that won it here. I'm not saying that new coaches = winning, just showing that new coaches can win it all. 2nd, 3rd, 5th = New? Yeah - you're right, I am agreeing with you. Fire them all and bring in the new. I can totally see your point of view. QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ May 9, 2007 -> 05:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wikipedia says Thomas was a standout in both football and baseball. To even play one year at tight end at Auburn, I'd imagine you'd have to be fairly athletic. Saying Thomas "wasn't very athletic" isn't right... And to disclude Sweeney from the 'athlete' group is stupid, too. From the looks of it, I'd say Sweeney is every bit the 'athlete' that Anderson is, if not moreso. If you want to say Sweeney has more baseball 'smarts' than Anderson, I guess that's reasonable, but I'm not sure how, as a scout, you project 'baseball smarts'. He didn't play, unless you have a different definition of play than I do. I never said he wasn't very athletic. I said that he isn't in the Borchard/Anderson athleticism category. When the hell did I not include Sweeney or even say he wasn't an athlete? Borchard, Thomas, and Anderson were being compared. Sweeney wasn't even in the conversation. I don't even know where this conversation is going anymore.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ May 9, 2007 -> 04:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So what you're saying is that the Sox shouldn't have drafted Frank Thomas? After all, he played football just like Borchard did and was an athlete... BTW -- can we have a poll for what was the 'best' Ozzie moment of last night? I think you can put up three solid options... -Intentionally walking... wait for it... Nick Punto. -Matt Thorton can't get Josh Rabe out -- apparently -- so Ozzie brings in Aardsma. Gardenhire predictably responds by bringing in the hitter he wanted at the plate all along, Jason Kubel. -Not walking Justin Morneau with -- again, wait for it -- Jeff Cirillo on deck. What a pathetic all-around performance last night. Ye gods... We suck. Frank Thomas played one season as a TE for Auburn and was not very good or athletic. His athleticism is not the same as Borchard's or BA's QUOTE(StrangeSox @ May 9, 2007 -> 04:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'd prefer both better players and a new manager, actually. I doubt either will happen. hitters was a typo. That is the way good teams always get better right? A whole new coaching staff or a new manager. That always solves everything. I think you will find that a good organization keeps a staff together for a while and does not get trigger happy and fire someone at the first sign of disappointment. Then again the Cubs seem to be able to pick up the hot manager every 4 years. That seems to have been working out great for them, so maybe you are on to something here. Your right. Fire the manager. Get some new coaches in here!

QUOTE(BigSqwert @ May 9, 2007 -> 03:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So the fact that he had a better batting average, more HRs, more RBIs, more walks, more runs, less strikeouts, and a better OBP last year as opposed to 2005 makes him similar to Tuffy Rhodes? Get a clue. Your right. He is outstanding. I don't have a clue what I am talking about. He looks great in every game I watch him play. QUOTE(StrangeSox @ May 9, 2007 -> 04:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Doesn't matter. Ozzie still had to face this situation and failed. It's like giving excuses to hitters that can't pitch over errors. Your right, but at the same time his players failed in situations they were faced with. But your right, lets fire the manager, we don't need better players. hitters that can't pitch over errors?

QUOTE(fathom @ May 9, 2007 -> 03:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's the manager's job to make strategical decisions, especially in close games, to help give his team the best chance to succeed. If he really thought that facing Morneau in that situation was the best option the Sox had, then unfortunately, he's about as bad of a manager as some of us believe. The Twins have two dangerous hitters right now, and he let both of them beat us in crucial situations. When every game is close like we've had, not only do you need good pitching and defense, but you also need good managing. He hasn't been as bad this year as he was last year, but last night was a poor performance by Ozzie. Ozzie would have never had to face that decision if Tadahito could throw it to first base without pulling Paulie off the bag.

QUOTE(BigSqwert @ May 9, 2007 -> 03:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And everyone else is overreacting? Heh The 7 RBIs in 2 innings vs Houston last year was luck. A game here or there does not make a solid player. It makes Tuffy Rhodes or Jerome Walton.

Yeah, you all are right. It is Ozzie's fault that this team is hitting .220. It is Ozzie's fault that Iguchi can't throw the ball to first base without pulling Paulie off the bag. Yeah, I can see where you guys are coming from. It is all Ozzie's fault. Oh, wait, maybe it is all Greg Walker's fault because he is OBVIOUSLY teaching them some ad habits. The managers and coaches get way too much credit for winning and losing. The constant bickering and whining on this message board about the coaches is flat out ridiculous. How can you blame the coaches whent he team is last in the league in hitting? The only way you win with a team like that is superb pitching and defense. If Iguchi could make that throw without pulling Paulie off of first last night then that would have been a win for the White Sox. Too bad he couldn't do that. Too bad he hasn't done a thing since 2005.