Chisoxfn

By the way....I agree with all the thoughts regarding the issues...I just thought it was staggering how poor the percentages were even when Ryan does go to Jones. To me that shows a far bigger issue. How the heck is such an explosive receiver that bad in the red zone when they do throw to him. They must be telegraphing everything. I can't imagine the rope on Sark will be very long this year. I'm presuming Falcons HC was betting a 2nd year in the system (and even for Sark a 2nd year in the NFL) would see major red zone improvements. If they cleaned that up, their offense would have been pretty darn prolific a year ago...certainly doesn't look good after one game, albeit the Eagles were really creating havoc on Ryan (he didn't have a clean pocket too often, especially in the red zone).

For as great as Mack is, his Raiders defenses have largely been doodo as well. Hard to imagine with such an elite player on the unit.

Has he forgotten about him or can he just not figure out how to get him open? I think I heard a stat that over last season plus week 1, Ryan is 1-21 with 2 interceptions when throwing to Julio Jones in the red zone.

While it is very TNF, there is no reason it should be. Not like they played this past Sunday.

Doesn't Carfax have like a guarantee? In this case, shouldn't carfax be somehow on the hook for the "lost" value due to their report being delayed? Or are they saying that is already disclosed that such delays exist and thus don't take blame?

I think it is actually a little more akin to last season's rumors about the Sox acquiring Machado a year early (and giving up assets to do so) with the intent to him agreeing to a long-term extension. None fit exactly but getting Mack took more than just using up cap-space.

This is the main reason why I can get behind the deal. The theory now is the time and you are making that "huge" investment at the 2nd most important position in football.

A counter-point on the Jags was 2 years before this past season (so now 3 years ago), they were the darlings in the NFL after making major splashes in FA to surround with Bortles and everyone expected them to take 2 steps forward. Instead they took a step or two back as part of their growing pains and than finally launched forward. I guess my point is, if we follow their pathway, than we just gave up 2 massively high draft picks for a team not ready to contend. That was why in an isolated vacuum, I said this deal was done a year too soon...in an ideal world, Trubisky elevates his game this year and gives us the right signs that he is the franchise QB (plays well to the tune of an 7 or 8 win seasons but with major arrow pointing up)...and than we go out and get a Mack. Doing it a year early to me doesn't change the upside (upside is the same as I believe the window really starts more a year or two years from now (and I believe that with or without Mack) and thus making the move now is more risky because the certainty I have in that window is much smaller (as in...will that window work or am I hitting "reset" on the franchise QB). If I'm Pace, it doesn't matter as that "window" is fixed and tied to my contract so for him I don't necessarily see any additional "downside" risk. He will not lose his job over the Mack trade, it will be whether Trubisky pans out or not as Trubisky will be the key to them truly ascending up. That is where a strong president could potentially help. Plus the NFL doesn't work in a vaccuum and a player of Mack's caliber doesn't come available every year, so you can't just build your team in a vaccuum so I certainly understand the decision to bet now and not wait (cause you never know whether you'll ever be able to add that "dynamic" pass rusher later).

I also think that "coaching" style kept them in a lot of games as well. By and large Fox played to try and keep the game close. With that we probably hung around some games we shouldn't have and ended up winning, but also lost some very winnable games. We also really had minimal offensive weapons so I don't think it was "purely" a system thing and I think part of the reason we ran the system we had was a lack of belief in the weapons and experience necessary to "open things up". I think Nagy has the ability to take this franchise to levels it hasn't seen/explored in a long time, but I still think that vision takes time, but optimistically hope we see flashes of that emerge this year and than some and maybe we do squeak into the playoffs, etc.

Technically, when they got Cutler he was an ascending young QB with all of the talent in the world. It was the right move and they should have done it every time. I actually think that move was significantly better than the Mack move. The Mack move might ultimately have the better result (even significantly better) but from a pure "decision making" perspective, on paper the Cutler trade was a brilliant and necessary move. Unfortunately it didn't work out and that is part on Jay and part on the front office(s) who handled Jay with such ineptness. Either way, moot point. Pace seems to not be making those "same" mistakes as we've made all the "right" on paper moves to support Trubisky. Again, results might not pan out, but the right moves have been made on the offensive side of the football at the very least. While I can see the vision for the Mack move, I don't see it as a slam dunk no-brainer in the sense that real downside risks exist and the true ability to unlock a consistent contender will be on the offense improving. The defense to me is what it will take to be an elite team....good offense + elite defense and we are talking potential superbowl team in the future.

I agree with you. Packers with Rodgers will always be a tough beat (best QB in the league means you compete and can contend as long as he stays upright). Vikings are legit good (elite defense combined with good weapons at wideout and a more than serviceable QB). Lions have a solid to good QB and decent players. Probably most suspect team as I think their ability to be anything but solid is dependent on major improvements in their offensive weapons and/or defense and I don't know how possible that is. The NFL always has a bit of crapshoot but the NFC North is one of the strongest divisions in the league with three quality veteran QB's (one of which is the arguably the best QB in the league) and you have one elite defense in the league and maybe a 2nd one (albeit, I think the Bears are probably a year away from that albeit, I can certainly see scenarios where they take major steps forward...I can also see scenarios where our secondary falls apart and becomes a sieve). Fuller becomes a contract year wonder and Eddie Jackson get hurt, etc.

It actually didn't change my near-term view much. Yes, defense gets better...but I still think there is risk of Mack having a bit of an adjustment period (whether be injury or just getting up to speed with the guys) and I also presume Roquan will take a bit of time to get ready. But the main reason is, I think the offense is going to have growing pains. Mitch is young and its a new system and Robinson is coming back from missing a whole year and Miller is still a rookie, etc. I like our talent though and LT think things go well. I don't see us as a playoff team (if I were to bet), however, if we make the playoffs I think we go deep because it means Mitch and the O played well and I believe in our D being the type that plays well in the post-season (and our ability to run the ball is a plus). Very excited to watch this years season and excited about where the franchise is headed

I pretty much agree with everything you said.

I think that is because Rams backloaded it cause they have no cap space now after paying so many guys. Hoping bears did not back load this deal.

What is the cap hit on this per year? We front loading some?

Amazing how fast this whole thing has played out! I wonder how much or how little Mack will play in week 1? Hope we don’t rush him and have some injuries show up.

Any hesitation I had went away when I learned we were getting a 2nd round picks back too. What is the condition for that 2nd raiders pick to come back to us? Based on Mack’s performance or more based upon where the bears picks fall in the draft. My main original hesitation was fact that two firsts plus handing over a massive contract is a very steep price to pay and from a depth perspective not having those first round picks the next couple years will impact our overall depth. We won’t have many picks the next two years.

One reminder...Vegas revised their Super Bowl odds from 100-1 to 60-1. Raiders purely moved to 25-1 (and no one has them as a super bowl darling). Just saying...there is still a lot to prove and there is still a decent chance we will have the worse record in the NFC north. Saying it more so that people don't jump off cliffs when we have the inherent growing pains associated with new staff + so many new faces.

How fast until Mack can play?

Long term I like the direction the arrow is headed. Now we need to hope the on field production of the team backs that statement. Sucks we don’t play in AFC. NFC is so loaded.

I meant it more that I think we are a year away from needing to make this kind of move. That said generational talent like Mack doesn’t always come available so I certainly understand the move. I just think that our offense will still have growing pains and even defensively Mack and Smith haven’t had any real practice in our system. I still view us as a 7 to 10 win team largely due to inconsistencies on offense.

I agree. I feel like this move was a year early. Taking more risk than I'd like but could certainly pan out. Hopefully it does.

I won't speak to the M's, who had stunk for a long while prior to signing Cano, but below are the Angels w/l the 10 years prior to signing Pujols. They were consistently one of the best teams in baseball and a perennial contender/playoff team. Over a 10 year window they averaged 91 wins (909-711 record over that time; +198 games over .500). Post Pujols and Hamilton they became far more mediocre (even than they had a 98 win season back in 2014 followed by an 85 win season in 2015). Year: Wins 2011: 86 2010: 80 2009: 97 2008: 100 2007: 94 2006: 89 2005: 95 2004: 92 2003: 77 2002: 99

Is anyone watching castle rock?

He sure doesn't get many guys to square him up. His stuff is so good. I think he's just becoming a better pitcher, albeit, his ability to be effectively wild is very strong (stuff is so good and his ball is so live). Of course I've long been one of Rodon's big advocates. The only thing that will prevent him from being a front of the rotation guy would be his health, followed second by his command. The nice thing is, he's pitching deeper into games, etc.