Chisoxfn

My point is - they absolutely could have just kept Barnes and gotten the conditional pick - there was no need for the Spurs to be involved (other than the Bulls ownership or front office didn't want the cash). Now if they actually think they can use the TPE to get some assets at a later date or as a 3rd party facilitator - fine by me, but given past precedent with JR - call me skeptical.

I really think only way a trade happens is 2 fold: 1) Getz just decides he wants to move him and takes a much lower offer than he would have gotten last year 2) Robert starts to really put together a consistent 2-3 week run from here on out and closer to deadline teams see he is healthier and are willing to look past his early struggles to pay something much closer (not the same) as what Robert would have gotten last offseason. I am hoping #2 happens and I am not supportive of #1 as I think at some point Scenario #2 happens and that is when you should extract value for Robert.

Spurs twice - getting a FRP from Bulls and there is a 50% chance at some point in next 3 years Bulls fall into spot where they give up that pick. And again Spurs getting a pick swap for taking on Harrison Barnes. It is out in 2031 - so absolutely a chance that in 2031 Spurs are worse than Kings and it is worth nothing or two teams are in same boat -> but also a non zero chance that Kings are in middle of yet another rebuild at that point and Spurs being who they are a playoff team so Spurs end up with a pretty damn good pick just for being a faciltator. To me any one move in isolation may have a lower probability in terms of the outcome - but the upside in the pick the Spurs got from the Kings is massive (it could be a top 3 pick). You than make 5 or 6 of those moves in a 2-3 year window and you end up improving your probability / scenarios. Now in fairness - maybe Bulls will do exactly that and they think use TPE in-season or later in off-season will drive a better return than an unprotected pick swap out in 2031 (or whenever it is). But that swap is exponentially more valuable than what the Bulls got in terms of 2 2nd round picks and some cash plus a player who is going to be a back end rotation player at best.

I stand corrected - not a good deal. Bulls are going to suck for next year or two and they could have gotten an unprotected pick swap out in 2031 and were to cheap to buy it by taking on Barnes. They could have done other things to get under tax and Barnes is a solid vet who you could keep around for the season or until deadline or keep for a year and use when he becomes an expiring. They better leverage that tpe they got to facilitate some future asset cause getting an unprotected pick from an org like the Kings who has historically been bad is by far the best asset in the entire sign and trade (sans Demar).

We can all agree they should have done this last offseason…would have been a far better start to offseason, but thus far this offseason I can’t really argue much.

What happened with Duarte - his stats were pretty solid his rookie year.

Derozan to kings. Bulls get a couple 2nd rounders and Duerte. Harrison Barnes to spurs. I think I would have rather gotten the other guy the Kings were dangling and would have packaged him in season for some assets. At least Bulls making it clear they are going to be rebuilding. I know nothing about Duerte. I actually think Demar is a pretty solid fit with Kings and I wish him well. Such a class act and good dude.

That is why I like them for Fedde to be honest. If they aren't going to give up the top guys - maybe the roster crunch allows the Sox to move Fedde for a solid quantity of quality (but not high end) prospects.

I think this is an important nuance - I think if the Oriole's, with their budget constraints are moving those high end guys, they are doing it for someone who is under longer control than say Cease. Crochet and/or Robert would both better fit that bill.

I will say one good option is Spurs are interested and they give back our first in a sign and trade and maybe a few seconds or something. Demar and Paul two quality vets around the young and rebuilding squad. Reality is Bulls “tanking” means Spurs aren’t getting that pick next year anyway so that lessens blow from their side.

100 percent. A year ago and they get real value for Zach and Derozan is an asset and you get what you got for Caruso and maybe a bit more. You than sign and trade Vuc to facilitate. Would have been a significantly better starting point.

I hope we can facilitate a sign and trade. Hopefully they can get some form of lottery protected first (even with heavy protections)…kind of like when they got him first time. I think Lakers is likely destination. That or get some tpes to help facilitate other teams cap deals for assets or a buy low candidate. For first time in a while, I am actually moderately pleased with direction of Bulls (too bad it took this long). But in isolation I like every move they have made.

I agree with this. They are both left home and I think not playing good talent doesn't help in the long run. And with the expanded world cup qualifiers, there is no reason not to combine the 2 areas. I also don't get how a tourney in the US can have such poor quality replay systems. Even with that - there is zero scenario where that call should be upheld - but none of that matters. They had such few quality chances and basically were playing for a tie when reality is they have the skill to go up against a good team (and in fairness Uraguay is a solid team) and try to show who they were (shoot what was the downside in that - if they lost an exciting 4-3 open affair - I don't think any of us would be near as mad).

Its really clear to me - they still run a system that tries to basically play to a draw with a hope of squeaking out a win. In the history of the US - when you didn't have high end talent, that strategy wasn't horrible cause playing a wide open game is going to result in you getting destroyed. But these aren't those teams. Now the players absolutely deserve blame - but these players are far more skilled than past cycles and Behralter system is not a fit with this talent level. It is doing same thing - its making things closer on there end when now they can and should outclass more teams (not the top 15 teams in the world - but outside of that - they should outclass everyone else - the talent and skills are absolutely there). I hope the redcard doesn't become an excuse, because with 2 years between now and the World Cup - this is the exact right time to pull a soft reset from a coaching perspective and there is plenty of time to get it corrected. Use this as a real wake up call (since the last world cup wasn't good enough).

We know I probably like Pat the least of everyone on this board...but I can't blame the Bulls on that deal and I wouldn't be surprised if they get really good surplus value on this 2nd deal. The interesting guy is White - he is in a really good place right now - but I think his next deal will be a bad one. Bulls probably are fine holding onto him for another year - but if we are rebuilding Coby could be an interesting player to dangle - as teams around the apron will value what he brings to the table plus how he can fit in without blowing up their budgets. Ayo is kind of in a similar spot. And in fairness - the Bulls could and should hold them now, but I could see a scenario where they are actually dangled at the deadline to maximize their value.

That is why I think if I were the Sox - I might try to get the market for him now vs. wait until 30 days. If you get a really good offer - don't hold out for the amazing offer cause the risk that something goes wrong in next 30 days is not minimal.

Ditch Behralter. 3 shots through 85 minutes - bad call or not this team should be better than that and outcomes at this level matter.

Wtf were the refs seeing in that var. awful.

At this point - we got to just pray that his arm stays healthy and/or we strike on a team looking to jump the market and get a kick start. Looking in direction of San Diego or Seattle or someone else who wants Crochet not just for the post-season and to get a start on him now, but who might also put a bigger premium on his cost control over next few years (maybe a team like Milwalkee, Braves or Pirates could fit into that conversation.

I kind of don't think much of 2nd rounders to be honest. But this move seems decent enough. Don't know much about him, but he's young so at least lines up with the idea of trying out some young parts. I really am curious how true the rumors are on Lavine. If they are what everyone is saying - which absolutely could be the case given how much time he missed last year, than I don't see why you would trade him. They are building a team to play up tempo which should be a good fit for Lavine to showcase himself better (but reality is this could be Klutch trying to drive his value down so much so he can get to his destination of choice). If I were the Bulls I have to think long and hard about how willing I am to do that (this whole - you'd have to attach a FRP to deal Lavine - well at that point he's staying and I'll try to build back his value - cause he is an efficient scorer and in the right set-up is a really good #2/#3. But he clearly IS NOT a #1.

Do the Clippers have anything worthwhile to sign and trade for Demar?

I don’t like Pat much but I get why they did this and if Cowley is right and we see them move on from Lavine, Vic and Demar than I am pretty happy. Took too long to kind of hit a reset.

Dump the coach

The other thing I would do right now if I were AK - is be an individual who facilitates trades. Maybe they can get in on helping Golden State get out of Chris Paul (and Vuc could be part of that deal). Buyout Paul or let Paul be the veteran mentor until he is moved at the deadline or you buy him out than. I'm sure there are other places too there where they can add some assets. I'm also not sitting here demanding they end up with the #1 pick in the upcoming draft (would be great) - but be in a position where you are in the top 5 (which I think is doable given the route they are headed). And get plenty of more assets so you start to build up some flexibility (easier said than done - but NBA is interesting - when you can operate as a 3rd party facilitator there is a certain amount of assets you can buy up at a reasonable ST cost).

I agree with the above - however, I think even with Derozan that is a team that is going to be bottom 5. If it were me, I would go all out to move the mid 3 and even Patrick Williams, I would lean to if I could sign and trade him I may opt to do it. Now if no one ends up giving him a big number, than maybe you do exactly what they did with Ayo and White and than the hope is he does mature (and I have learned some of these young guys really do take until their 2nd contract before they emerge) and so if you can get them at a more fair deal in that 2nd deal it could be really nice. I might even take a flyer on a Wiseman who probably stinks but why not. I do think veteran prescence is important though - but I also think this is where having a Billy Donovan who is well respected and solid leader as a coach is actually a good fit. I also think moving away from Derozan is important to get a team that will pay with pace which finally fits more of the up-tempo style they want to do. In terms of Buzelis - I like his general shooting form so I think with time he will develop that 3 point shot and the one thing I give AK credit for is, initial results from the new shooting coach were pretty solid.