Soxbadger

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 12:41 PM) It's Nova for Brunson. Thanks for the information. After 10+ years I was pretty confident you wouldnt say something like that unless you were almost positive (obviously nothing is for certain in life).

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 04:25 PM) I'll bet money an underling gets blamed and fired to save Roger's ass. Maybe theyll hire a new "compliance" officer who is "independent."

Im not really sure Goodell is going to step down and Im not really sure the NFL will force him to. At this point they just need some sort of diversion, maybe quickly pass the new drug rules and re-instate Gordon etc. Basically just need to change the news cycle and people will forget about this, like everything else. Goodell is a lot bigger whale than Ray Rice, you may catch him, but it would be really hard unless he voluntarily resigns.

If you never had to worry about a broken or scratched screen then they wouldnt sell as many products.

Im not going to blame Cutler for the Holmes play. It wasnt the best play call (Forte had been kind of good) and it was 1 on 1 with the Bears wr having slightly better position. I think that its overall a better strategy to go to Forte or Bennett, but not really going to blame that entirely on Cutler.

You also have to account for the fact that Jay Cutler is being paid over $15mil where as McCown is being paid $5mil. Would the Bears be a better team with a cheaper QB and more money invested in other positions? My answer is yes, but that is just my fundamental belief in how to run a football team. There are very few players that I feel can justify that type of commitment in a salary cap league, especially given how many injuries there are in football.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 11:00 AM) How many hail mary TD's / big plays did he get just heaving the ball up for Jeffrey to make some insane catch. Jeffrey went off in quite a few of McCown's games. Good for Cutler too but some of those just insane catches came in McCown games from what I recall. This is the entire point. A marginal to bad QB like McCown could succeed in the Bears offense because he simply didnt make horrible decisions. When in doubt hed throw the ball in a place where at worst it was an incomplete pass and sometimes his ultra talented WR's would bail him out. Im pretty sure that no one thinks McCown can throw better than Cutler or has the same talent as Cutler. (edit) And I hope Im wrong. Cutler can easily fix himself if he wants. First he needs to work on his footwork. Second he needs to make better decisions. Those arent impossible, its just frustrating that he doesnt seem to ever take that leap. Because if he does, he could easily be a top 5 qb.

McCown is the perfect comparison. The Bears system made him last year, the Bears didnt need to pay tons of money to a QB. They just needed a guy who was smart and could get the ball to talented players. I dont think McCown is overall a good QB. And in a bad offense/system hes probably going to be terrible.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 10:49 AM) I was arguing your point about a ton of last second snaps and presnap panic, that is not something I saw when our primary unit was out there (and you ignore it completely in the above). It was the calmest I've ever seen Cutler at the helm. Im not ignoring it. We just have a difference of opinion. At no point on Sunday was I like "Damn Cutler is at the same level of control as McCown." So it doesnt really matter if its the calmest youve seen Cutler, I was comparing Cutler to McCown running the offense. Youd think that a guy with over a year in the system would be as in control as the backup who played 5 games.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 10:45 AM) The only time I saw panic at the line is when both Marshall and Jeffery were out and Holmes/Morgan had no idea where to line up. If you only saw it 1 time, then you were watching a different game. Hell after some change of possessions he was manically calling for the snap with under 3 seconds.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 10:39 AM) Probably weren't watching the game last week but Cutler was more in control of the offense and the huddle as I'd ever seen. He made one terrible throw. It happens. Unfortunately, they had some other miscues that magnified that terrible throw (including the Marshall fumble...some bad play calling...and Bennett / Marshall running the wrong route and not sitting in the proper zone on the other pick. Oh and I believe the Bills were a top 5 pass defense a year ago. Sucks to lose but I'm not about to throw the season out the window just yet. I dont think Ive missed a minute of a bears game since 1994. You can go back to last years thread when they were talking about re-signing Cutler, I wrote plenty about why it would not be a prudent move. You can make excuses for the guy all you want, but the fact is, if he is going to get paid that type of money, its his responsibility to get better. Oh and he still doesnt care about his footwork, which is something youd think he would really work on.

Who isnt blaming Ray Rice? It just doesnt matter how much we blame the person, if they are an abuser/criminal. They usually dont care. Which is why its up to the police/prosecutor to protect victims.

I dont know if she is in a dangerous place or not. If shes in a dangerous place than its really not the NFL/Ravens we should be yelling at, its the police/prosecutor/judge who are not pressing charges and are letting a potentially violent/dangerous situation continue. Its their responsibility to protect her. And yah outcomes make a difference. If you speed and get home safe its a lot different than if you speed and kill a pedestrian. Same action, different outcome. Unfortunately that is how the world works.

The other part about McCown is that he always seemed to get to the line in plenty of time to make reads/adjustments. I swear Cutler takes more panicked snaps under 5 seconds on the play clock than any other qb.

What that means is the other person doesnt agree to your request, so instead of walking away or doing the right thing you decide to break the law and use violence. The other person doesnt have to stop their behavior, you have to make the correct choice to not hit them. Doesnt blame them at all. Because I never said they were doing something wrong. I mean at any point did I say the other person was in the wrong? Or are you just completely making that set of facts up. Just because someone is being annoying, doesnt mean you have the right to hit them, nor does it mean they are doing anything wrong. I get annoyed by people who are completely within their rights all the time, still annoys me, and I still may ask them to stop. If I then break the law and hurt them, its not their fault, its entirely mine. /shrug

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 03:36 PM) This is not a legitimate comparison to this situation, and really demeans what actually happened between Rice and his fiance. It turns this into a "She was asking for it" type of defense. Where did I say she was "asking for it". I dont believe anyone is ever "asking" to be hit. Nor do I believe anyone has the right to hit anyone else. Soo you are really reaching to defend your position, because I dont believe that anyone should hit another person, unless its in self-defense. Which is why the comparison is appropriate, because in neither scenario was the violence allowable. /shrug

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 03:17 PM) He certainly committed a crime. Whether he gets convicted of said crime is another story, but I think he would have a hard time getting out of this one. But if I am a good person and for some reason my neighbor cranking Boy George at 1 in the morning bothers me so I go over and stab him to death, instead of putting me in jail, I should go to some classes to work on my behavior? If not, what is the cutoff? To me if this was a one time isolated incident, I would have figured, he would have come to his senses after he knocked her out, but yet he dragged her by her hair out of the elevator. If he is capable of doing that, why wouldn't he be capable of doing it again to anyone and why shouldn't he be considered a menace? Murder and battery are not equivalent. If Ray Rice murdered his fiance, Im pretty sure they wouldnt have entered him into a domestic violence program So lets make a legitimate comparison. You are out one night with your friends drinking. One of your friends gets annoying and you tell him to stop. He keeps going. Youre drunk and not thinking straight, you knock him out. The police come. Your friend is like "Hey its not really his fault, we were both drunk and acting stupid, 1 time incident." Should you go to jail? You knocked a human out, are you a menace? A bad person? QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 03:19 PM) I doubt anyone has changed their stance on domestic abuse since February. What proof do you have that everyone was OK with this then, just because there wasn't an on-going long thread about it? Just for the record, for now until the end of Soxtalk-dom, I have always felt like anyone who punches their significant other in the face, is fully justified in having their employer fire them, and never allow them to work for the company again. I also have no problem with other companies not being willing to hire people who feel the need to punch their significant others in the face. I felt that way in Feb. I feel that way today, and have always felt that way. I never, ever seen a need to make excuses for someone who does this, and I won't. He should have been cut, terminated, and/or suspended when this first happened. I also very seriously doubt that anyone on Soxtalk would have been upset if Ray Rice had these same things happen to him in Feb, just because they hadn't seen a video of it. The strawmen you are creating in this thread to have something to argue about are just jaw-dropping. The passive-aggressive support for Rice here is just sad. Youre entitled to your opinion. I have no problem if Rice is terminated, suspended, whatever. I think its sad that most people actually dont care about the victim and care more about patting themselves on the back about how much they stand against domestic violence, but that will never change. And I dont think Ive once supported Ray Rice. Ive merely challenged people to look at the situation rationally instead of like a lynch mob. You can always take your time to review/investigate and then make an informed decision to execute. You just cant execute and take it back.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 03:05 PM) Do you understand how news works? Wasn't much to post about in February, NFL hadn't a terrible error in judgment at that point. /shrugs. How wasnt their much to post about in February? We knew about the "abuse"then. If youre such a domestic violence crusader you didnt need to see a more explicit video. Where were all the people telling his fiance not to marry him, that hes an "abuser" etc? The suspension came out in July, once again, where was all of this? Its just like the beheading videos. I dont need to see a reporter having his head cut off to know how brutal it is. I am just as outraged seeing it or not seeing it. Same with back in February where literally no one cared about this.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 03:02 PM) I was once hit head on by a driver with no insurance, who totaled my car. I went to his court appearance. They said they were going to drop the charges because he had no prior record. I asked them how anyone could possibly get a prior record if that was the policy. They just looked at me. As for domestic abuse, I mentioned earlier I have a friend whose daughter was a victim. She went back with him. At his hearing she said she didn't remember him hitting her, so everything got dropped, like it never happened. Rice is a bad person. He not only punched her, he knocked her out, and then, apparently not realizing his mistake, dragged her around by the hair. Did he commit a crime or not? I don't care if people like him. Did he commit a crime? Well it depends on how you view the American justice system. I view it as simply, you are innocent until proven guilty. Since he was never found guilty, I have to say he is innocent. Doesnt mean he is a good person, or that what he did is right. It just means that a prosecutor and judge (who had more information than I do) believed that the best route was to get a deal where Rice would have to work on his behavior, instead of trying to take this to trial and putting him in jail. Was that a good decision? I dont know, but its no different than the NFL's original decision. Once its done, its done. To me its akin double jeopardy, which is something you either believe in or not.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 02:55 PM) I love the completely false narrative that people only started caring yesterday. As if they weren't shocked in February watching Rice drag a lifeless body. As if people weren't outraged over Rice getting such a small suspension. As if the outrage wasn't so loud that Goodell had to publicly apologize, something we never thought we'd see. As if the nfl didn't completely rewrite their rules due to the public being so upset with how they've handled things. But yeah aside from all that it's just spur of the moment rage. Its not a false narrative at all. There have been more news stories/coverage in the last few days than in the other months combined. So much so, that there is a whole thread dedicated to "Ray Rice" in this forum. Where as all that posting back in February?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 02:48 PM) This is kinda ironic though since the police/prosecutors decided to sweep it all under the rug, too. He's not getting a trial, he's able to walk away a free man without ever being charged. Not really that ironic. Most people dont get charged with crimes for 1 single incident, especially if the victim doesnt really want the charges pressed. He had to enter a plea deal, which is what would be the likely outcome for most people given the same circumstances. QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 02:49 PM) I don't buy this at all. About 5 years ago I decked a guy in a bar who was being a dick and messing with friends of mine. I was drunk, I got pissed off, and I acted, unfortunately in that way. Before that, I had never hit another person in my life. I'm one of the least confrontational people you'll ever meet. I snapped. Rice, while drunk, could have just snapped too. And I think the point is, its not right to hit another human, but before we put them in jail and throw away the key we should really make sure they are a BAD person, not just someone who was in an unfortunate position and made a terrible mistake.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 02:40 PM) Except for a video, showing the girl getting punched in the face, knocked out, and drug around like a caveman. I am not quite sure what more that needs to be seen. There is plenty of room for venom for Rice, and the NFL and Ravens, and it has been directed towards all three. Everyone knew this in February. The video released in February showed Rice dragging her around. The only thing you didnt see was the punch. But anyone who has half a brain knows that a punch to knock someone out cold isnt a love tap. /shrug Im so fauxraged right now, just wait till next week when something else captivates the minds of Americans to get mad about. I mean s***, youd think Ray Rice was War Machine (ironically that story isnt getting half as much coverage).

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 02:38 PM) Appeasing spousal abuse isn't my thing /shrugs Exactly my point. Either you believe in protecting rights or you dont. I dont just get to say "Well I really hate X so they dont deserve a trial, they should just be executed." You may not believe it, but the time where we need to be most vigilant about protecting our beliefs, is when it is the most heinous of criminals.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 02:34 PM) Would anyone disagree with me if I said that the reason why this turned into a lynch mob is that it wasn't handled remotely appropriately until recently? Nike, i mean, Nike, didn't cut him loose until today. How is that even possible? The NFL being that dumb and tone deaf I get, but Nike? What is the appropriate response? No one has any of the facts. I would say the appropriate response would be to ask the victim, what she wants. To investigate to determine if this was a pattern of abuse, or a single incident. And then once you have all the facts to make a ruling and stick by it. And if you have some sort of animosity towards how this was handled, I would think the venom should be at the NFL and Ravens. Why not say the NFL has to donate a lot of money to DV, why not say the Ravens do? Why not have the Ravens forfeit the season, or actually hit the people who "failed to appropriately handle it". That seems to be logical and an appropriate response.

Im pretty sure no one wants to "acquit" Ray Rice. Im pretty sure people want to "investigate" before we "execute". Not really a crazy idea, especially given the fact that this occurred half a year ago, and now all of a sudden everyone just knee jerk reacts. /shrugs You have to protect the rights of the worst the same way you protect the rights of the best. Believe that or dont, its a philosophical debate that you have to live with yourself. But itd be pretty hypocritical of me if I just completely forget what I stand for every time there is a "bad" guy who needs to be "punished". Lynch mobs arent my thing. Strangesox, Laugh all you want. But please do not take some sort of "protect defendant's" stance in the future and not expect to be shown for the hypocrisy. It is what it is. The worst deserve the same rights as the best. Im shocked someone as "liberal" as you doesnt believe in such a core idea of justice.