Soxbadger

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 02:17 PM) I wonder if she were your sister or daughter or friend if you would feel the same way. My sister is an adult. She gets a say in her life. If its just a "terrible mistake" Id get over it, if it was a "pattern of abuse" then no. QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 02:18 PM) It is her choice, but it seems intentionally naive to ignore how DV frequently works to make the victim blame themselves and rationalize their abuser's behavior. Its naive to ignore the fact that when there is long term abuse (Rice has been with her since HS) that there are generally a lot of signs/indication. So you would think that if hes been abusing her for almost 10 years, there would be more stories/whispers. But if it fits your narrative, it must be fact. I clearly have stated I have no idea what has gone on, and that I think we should INVESTIGATE, before we jump to a conclusion either way. Sorry I guess thats the American in me.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 12:47 PM) "s/he'll change" "s/he still loves me" "s/he didn't really mean it, s/he just lost their temper" "I know I'm not perfect, I provoked him/her" We don't even have to guess at the potential rationalizations in this case. We have that tweet via the Ravens about Janay apologizing for "the role that she played." You have no evidence of what happened or why she said that. The definition of abuser doesnt matter, what matters is the fact that people seem to always believe that they know best for everyone else. Last I checked Rice and Turner were adults. At this point Rice does not seem to be a current threat to her life. If she wants to forgive him for what he did, thats her choice. Just like if someone forgives a spouse for cheating, etc. Their life, not mine. (edit) Does anyone have a shred of evidence of prior abuse by Rice? Cause in my experience usually there are more signs than just 1 sudden outburst in public.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 12:03 PM) How many punches do you need exactly to be considered an "abuser" in your book? Until the definition changes it needs to be more than 1 event. The word "regularly" means that it has to be common, not just 1 isolated incident.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 11:53 AM) Abuser and the victim. Person who abused? Is that better? It was pretty clear what was meant when talking about interviewing the abuser and the victim in the same room. But thanks for the lawyer speak. Sorry words have meaning. Once again, the "abuser" suggests repeated occurrence. If you wanted to appropriately talk about the situation Ray Rice would be the perpetrator and his wife would be the victim. Perpetrator does not imply repeated actions and the same point comes across. You almost never interview the perpetrator at the same time as the victim. But come on, youre smarter than this and actually knew the implications of your statements. I have no problem with people thinking he is an abuser, Im just saying as of today, there is very little hard evidence to support it. QUOTE (iamshack @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 11:54 AM) To me, it's more the dragging her out of the elevator that would make me skeptical, but I don't know anything about the guy. I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt that perhaps he just completely snapped. I dunno. Its impossible to know. Its merely speculation without some other evidence. I have no clue, but in my experience when someone is being "abused" usually other people had some sort of idea. Like her family/friends etc, generally come out and say things like "We thought something bad was going on". Its really really hard to completely cover up domestic abuse, there are a lot of signs. But who knows, she could possibly be keeping it locked way inside.

The term abuser implies repeated action. a·bus·er someone who regularly or habitually abuses someone or something, in particular. Your words, not mine. Anyone who has any experience with domestic violence knows that the term "abuser" is reserved for those who have done it multiple times. Not someone who got into a single altercation. /shrug

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 11:31 AM) Total strawman. No one, except you, has said this. Krush keeps referring to him as an "abuser" thats the implication of the term, sorry. /shrug

Its a lot harder to cut Ray Rice the beloved face of the Ravens franchise, than Ray Rice "abuser". I mean no one even is suggesting that maybe this was just a series of completely of bad events that led to Rice doing something completely out of character. No one is saying the guy doesnt deserve some punishment, but seriously people are portraying Rice as if he has been abusing her forever, with really no evidence to support that.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 11:21 AM) But didn't it only hurt them to get out of that contract? That makes no sense. Why would it hurt them? They were going to have to potentially pay him while he was suspended.

"I woke up this morning feeling like I had a horrible nightmare, feeling like I'm mourning the death of my closest friend. But to have to accept the fact that it's reality is a nightmare in itself. No one knows the pain that the media & unwanted options from the public has caused my family. To make us relive a moment in our lives that we regret every day is a horrible thing. To take something away from the man I love that he has worked his ass of for all his life just to gain ratings is horrific. THIS IS OUR LIFE! What don't you all get. If your intentions were to hurt us, embarrass us, make us feel alone, take all happiness away, you've succeeded on so many levels. Just know we will continue to grow & show the world what real love is! Ravensnation we love you!" This was all for the victim, none of it had to do with Ravens getting out from that contract. Le sigh.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 05:13 PM) Obviously... all the men "riding in on their white horses" to save this woman are actually doing her more of a disservice by assuming she is not capable of making any of her own decisions. I think its more the fauxrage of the last few days. I have no problem with people who in February said all of these things. I just find it interesting that most people didnt care for half a year, and now they are all outraged. This didnt just happen.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 05:06 PM) Understood. So I suppose we shouldn't let them get married either, because he may have been forcing her against her will. Look Shack, when youre dealing with women, you cant let them make decisions. They arent capable of understanding the consequences of their actions, so its up to men to tell them whats right and wrong. Clearly fans and the NFL understand the relationship of Rice and Palmer better than they do, so it makes perfect sense that the NFL and fans have to step in. Especially because in the last months Rice and Palmer have had a lot of profile issues.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 04:52 PM) Employers don't need to have their employee go to court for anything in almost all cases to fire them. People have been fired for MUCH less. Absolutely true. But not many times do employers/employees sit down, come to an agreement about the punishment and then months later have the employer arbitrarily change their mind. If the Ravens immediately cut him, itd be different.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 04:36 PM) Does the employer have the right to fire you without justification? I'm truly asking as I don't know. Right now Rice can say he had no legal action taken against him. Why should the business take action when the courts didn't Again don't take this as I agree. I think he should have been prosecuted. But since he wasn't, I don't know the justification. Many states are at will employment which means you can be fired for no reason or any reason provided its not an illegal reason. NFL players have a contract so their ability to be terminated is based on whatever agreement that they signed.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 03:58 PM) As someone who is familiar with our legal system, you will surely realize that people who are breadwinners are sent to jail all of the time. We as a society don't not punish people just because it could hurt someone else. If Ray Rice was sent to jail that would be an entirely different argument. But in this specific case, both parties were charged and Ray Rice ultimately worked out a deal where he was not (correct me if Im wrong) even found guilty of a misdemeanor. So to the best of my knowledge he was never convicted. But that all played out months ago, none of this is new knowledge.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 03:55 PM) I have yet to hear anyone complain about the San Fran player who BEAT UP HIS PREGNANT WIFE and wasn't suspended. Hell, he was allowed to play yesterday. As long as we focus all of the lemmings on Ray Rice no one will look at the other actual bad things that are going on, or the fact that no one in the NFL actually cares, they just care about their image, and Ray Rice got caught on tape.

QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 03:52 PM) No, they are punishing Ray Rice, because Ray Rice committed a brutal assault in an elevator for the public to see. You should make sure to mansplain to the women's groups how to feel about how we shouldn't punish Ray Rice, because it may hurt her. Make sure to use your great puns. Domestic violence puns are hilarious. /shrug Can I not make holocaust jokes either? And believe me, I work with plenty of victims of domestic violence, cant recall any who told me "You know what I want, I want a random group of people that have no clue about the situation to impact my life because they know best". If you believe this is about domestic violence, I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. This is about money. The second the Ravens didnt need Ray Rice, they got rid of him. Had they cared so much, they would have gotten rid of him months ago. Instead they had a pr blitz about Ray Rice being "better". Cause you know, this is how it always goes. We have a trial, then a sentence, and the years/months later when people decided to get fauxrage about it, we just arbitrarily change the penalties. LOL I sincerely hope I never live in a system where that is at all palatable.

QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 03:39 PM) I guess I'll speak for myself when I say that her financial stability is not worth the physical abuse, and likely verbal abuse. There are no winners here, but Rice should not have the privilege of being an NFL football player after performing such a violent act. Hopefully he takes this extra time to spends it on addressing his issues. Your perspective. I have worked with many people who have gone through a lot of terrible stuff. If you arent them, you cant really know their perspective. Whether Rice's wife is suffering from battered women syndrome, I dont know, but what I do know, is that she has seemingly forgiven him months ago. To now fire him, is completely disrespectful to her. Its akin to saying she is a child and she doesnt know whats good for her. Which you would think would really infuriate the women's rights groups, because this is basically a group of men telling a woman "You dont know whats best for yourself sweetheart, let us men decide." QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 03:41 PM) I wondered out loud here back when the new punishments were first announced if it'd have the effect of making some DV victims even more hesitant to come forward. "Yeah, my husband beat me up again, but if I report this one, he's going to lose his $50M contract" This is actually a legitimate concern for many victims of domestic violence. If they are dependent on their significant other to earn a wage, its really hard to put them in prison and then be homeless. While Ray Rice's wife may never have this worry, such a high profile act will definitely having a chilling effect on domestic violence being reported. But at least we got a scapegoat to make us all feel good for a week.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 01:38 PM) He's got some African in him? What's that even supposed to mean? Im pretty sure the implication is that Hawks fans dont want to watch white grinders.

I just like how all the people who are so supportive of his wife dont get that this actually hurts her economically and that in no world would she want Rice's contract to be terminated. Its pretty much a slap to her face (pun intended), because not only is she a victim, she now suffers economic harm as well. But hey, lets not think about this logically, instead lets just get our pound of flesh. If anyone actually cared about his wife, they would give her 50% of the salary he would have made, or hell donate the money to a charity to help battered women. But nah, Ravens will pocket the money, Rice will get paid a lot less by someone else, and all of the people who yelled for Rice to be "punished" will pat themselves on the back for being awesome.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 03:22 PM) In my view, beating one's significant other should result in some outrage, and I have no problem with it resulting in someone losing their job, along with appropriate legal punishments as well. I have no problem with anyone doing what they want. But acting like this is the "normal" reaction is absurd.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 03:21 PM) So if an employee is charged with rape and gets sent to prison, many corporations keep him on the payroll? LOL. Ray Rice was sent to prison?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 03:18 PM) He's made plenty. Now she can stop the phoniness of being on his side to collect his check, divorce him, take half, and move on to a healthier and happier situation. Not sure you understand how it works. But she could have left him while he still had the contract and been entitled to more than had his contract been terminated. In no scenario does this help the victim, it actually hurts her. But get the torches folks, we got a effigy to burn.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 03:17 PM) The difference is most employers don't know you beat your wife. That is why you keep your job. Of all of the places I have ever worked, and I have worked for some real bottom feeders, I can't think of any that would have continued an employees hiring status after a video like that. Eh I disagree. Many huge corporations dont give a f*** how slimy the guys are, as long as they bring in money. I mean they dont fire guys for not paying child support, for raping, for whatever, so not really sure why this is any different. Well besides for the fact that everyone just decided this was the fauxrage of the week.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 03:10 PM) Just take a cap hit. He gets nothing. He was dragging her by the hair after knocking her out, what did they think happened in the elevator? But props to TMZ for getting justice served. Yeah justice served. His wife (the victim) now doesnt get the benefit of his huge contract that was just terminated. SWEET SWEET JUSTICE. LOL

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 02:37 PM) Uh, no. Losing your job isn't an overreaction to punching someone in the face and knocking them out. Im not really sure most people would lose their job over this. Its slightly different because the NFL is high profile and therefore there is public perception, but generally speaking most employers dont really give a f*** what you do on your own time. Many companies have plenty of dirt bag wife beaters. /shrugs