Soxbadger

QUOTE (Rex Hudler @ Feb 13, 2013 -> 08:47 PM) I disagree wholeheartedly. How many companies require a college degree for certain positions? How many give major preference to degreed candidates over one without a degree? You yourself said the paralegal knew more about law, but has a barrier to entry to become a lawyer because she can't afford to do the schooling. It happens in all walks of life. You said you want what's best for these kids. What about the kid who gets drafted and millions, isn't mature enough to handle it and blows his money and is out of the league by 22. Is it is his best interest that the NBA had no entry requirements? Hell no. If you want to make the argument about the NBA developing their own farm system like baseball does, have at it. But as it is, a kid that has to go through a year of college before he can have access to millions isn't hurting the kid. In fact, in 99% of the cases, it can do nothing but help him, assuming he can actually play at that level. The crime is the college coaches who coddle these kids, don't make them go to class and learn responsibility and discipline. Oh, and Go Hoosiers!! Rex, Once again, if a NBA team does not want to draft HS players, they dont have to. But the NBA is making a rule to prevent "companies" from hiring these kids. Thats collusion. You cant do that in most industries. And even then, even if the position says "College Degree Required" if you are the best, if you are the Lebron James of that field, they are going to make an exception. I would like to see evidence that someone who had 1 year of college is better at not spending their money than someone with no college. You cant just assume that. What I can say with almost absolute certainty is that 90% of the people on this earth will never make $10million in their life time. So if you are offered $10mil+, it is insanity to put that off for a year even if the risk is .0001%. Its insane. Or if we are worried about kids making bad decisions with money, why not set up a NFP that provides investment to these kids, that helps them, that teaches them how to save money etc. This isnt about the player, its about NBA owners making an extra million each year. Those are guys who are for the most part already worth millions. Why does the NBA need to protect Jerry Reinsdorf or Mark Cuban from making a bad investment? These guys know what they are doing. Why do they even need more help to screw these kids?

QUOTE (Rex Hudler @ Feb 13, 2013 -> 08:33 PM) United States President! That is a govt restriction. I am asking for a restriction created by a private industry like the NBA or NFL.

Its unfair. The system is created to take advantage of the disproportionate negotiating power of the NCAA/NBA versus an 18 year old kid. Even worse (imo) there are biases that have played into how different sports are treated. Baseball- 18 you can be drafted and make money. Hockey- 18 you can be drafted and make money. Soccer- 18 you can be drafted and make money. (Adu played at 14) Yet NBA and NFL are different? I want to encourage more kids to go to college, not to go to Europe. I want what is best for these kids, even if it costs the NBA a few million each year. The NBA can afford to make those mistakes, when one of these kids make a mistake, it likely will change their entire life for the worse. I just dont think thats fair, given the substantial difference in wealth.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Feb 13, 2013 -> 05:29 PM) Ha, bad copy and paste. Allowing high school kids to declare let them screw themselves in a different way that wasn't really fair. Guys declared for the draft and hired an agent because they thought they were good enough but most of them aren't. So now the kid made a horrible decision based on bad advice and he can't go to college anymore because he killed his eligibility. They never really had a chance because they tried to skip a step competitively. There were more people that did that than blew out their knee like Noel. Drafting kids out of high school just isn't good for anyone unless you're that one guy out of thousands that can handle it. The NBA just isn't going to stick their neck out on something like that for the rare guy that can handle it. A year in college isn't that big a deal for most of these guys, it's not like they have to actually pass courses and if they're good enough it's a minor roadblock at best. The only guys that get hurt by it are the guys that weren't good enough in the first place or the rare person that gets a career-altering injury (which again, likely isn't the case for Noel). You are explaining exactly why the process is unfair. First of all why should these 18 year olds not be able to hire agents/attorneys to give them good advice? In what world is that fair? The NCAA, NBA and colleges have hundreds of lawyers on their payroll. Yet an 18 year old hires an agent to try and figure out whats good for his life, hes banned from college athletics forever. The entire point of the system is to create an unequal playing field where the first chance for these people to actually negotiate for themselves is what 4-5 years after they have entered the NBA? I understand why you set a system like this up if your the NBA. I just feel that people need to speak out against it. The only people who this rule saves are those who would have declared and not been drafted. But if we really care about the kids, why not make it like baseball, where you can get drafted multiple times? Oh yah because that would give more leverage to the kids, and we dont care about them. QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Feb 13, 2013 -> 07:37 PM) Does it work different in Illinois? In California, she could just take the baby bar and then sit for the bar exam. No requirement to go to law school. Yes Cali is basically the outlier. In Illinois you have to go to an ACCREDITED law school. Im guessing that Chicago Law Schools are over $30k a year these days.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Feb 13, 2013 -> 05:00 PM) Yeah, they really are. My clerk knows more about the law than I do because she's been involved with cases in a few specific fields for 30 years. Yet she could never be a lawyer because she didn't go to law school. Our estate planning paralegal knows more than any ep attorney in our firm. Hilariously she does all of the paperwork, the attorney doesnt even look. Yet she isnt qualified because she doesnt have the time/money to go to law school. QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Feb 13, 2013 -> 05:06 PM) Isn't that the point? They're keeping guys that aren't qualified to contribute to the NBA out of the league. You can count the number of guys that were ready to contribute right out of high school on one hand. It's far easier to send them to college for a year for further development and evaluation that trying to figure out if that high school kid actually has talent or is just way more athletic than the 6'5" centers he's playing against. It's a way to reduce the guesswork in drafts and not spend assets on guys that may or may not be any good. Some of the guys that WERE picked might have been significantly better off if they had developed for a few years in college. We'll never really know if Ndudi Ebi would have turned out better if he spent a year or two at Arizona. For every Nerlens Noel that got "screwed" by this (I used the quotes because he'll still likely go top 5 anyways), you probably had 2 or 3 guys like Korleon Young that blew threw whatever money they earned and have to try to find a real job now. Im not sure what you mean "this is the point" as you quoted 2 different points. The first point is about the fact that there is no "public policy" concern. Regular people arent going to die because they went to a NBA game and Kwame Brown was playing. But they surely could die if a "Doctor" doesn't know what they are doing. As for the part about the NBA protecting their investment, that is exactly the point and why its completely unfair to the 18 year old. The NBA is a billion dollar corporation, it should be the one to carry the risk. Otherwise it should have to pay into an insurance fund for kids in college who get injured so that they have some money. This is a subject Ive been strongly against for like 8 years now. I really hate barriers of entry.

Alvarez presented it differently, but thats why I said it was a rumor. All sorts of stuff about new conferences Nebraska, Iowa, Wisconsin being in the same division.

Its the reason they made me a lawyer

QUOTE (SexiAlexei @ Feb 13, 2013 -> 04:20 PM) And wasn't there a huge discussion on here last year that his ACL tear was not a result of him playing injured? Imo (and im not a dr) its inconclusive. Jenks, we just have a difference of opinion. I believe it is the coaches responsibility to protect the players and to know the players. If that player is going to play injured to the detriment of the team, its up to the coach to say no. I have no idea what really happened. Im just reading between the lines. And (imo) there is an apparent difference between how Rose was acting last year (trying to tough it out regardless) and this year. Now maybe its just in Rose's head. But this is something Ive expressed concern about for a while, so Im obviously looking at it from that perspective.

What are all these industries that have rules that prevent companies from hiring people at any age? The only professions that are generally regulated this way, are professions where the public interest is involved. And the reason the govt argues that they have the ability to regulate is because regular people will be hurt.

These arguments present false premises. If you pass the bar at X age, you can practice law. A similar comparison would be if the NBA had a skills competition and if you were good enough, you could go to the NBA. So while there are "standards" most of the time they are not based on things like "age" or "HS class". For example, I could have graduated college in less than 3 years. That would have put me a class in front. Would it make sense to say that I have to wait 1 year to go to law school because I was in front of my class? Would it make sense after law school to say I have to sit for 1 year because I was to young? The answer is no. So while you can argue that generally other industries have "skill" requirements, most of those "skills" do not include things like "age." Unless its something that by law you can only do when you are a certain age (ie bar tender). I just do not see why a basketball player should be subjected to similar requirements as a lawyer or doctor. And honestly, I dont believe that anyone should be subjected to those requirements. Lawyer requirements are a joke, its nothing more than a barrier of entry to try and prevent other people from becoming lawyers. But once again, id be fine with something like the bar, where if a basketball player can show proficiency in the sport, that they can play in the NBA. Because the point of the bar, isnt to protect lawyers, its to protect the public at large. And Im not sure what we are protecting the public from when it comes to basketball players getting paid at 18 as opposed to 19. That is merely just an attempt to protect the NBA from bad investments.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Feb 13, 2013 -> 03:50 PM) This is an argument about not playing while injured, not whether playing another 5-8 minutes and being "overworked" contributed to some of those injuries. Either way, he was healed and rested as much as he could be going into the playoffs. That's what sucked so much about the injury - he was FINALLY healthy. And yet he still had a freak injury. I think you are missing the argument. Its about Thibs overplaying players who are injured. Deng had a torn tendon, that is an injury, yet Deng played top 5 minutes in the entire NBA. That just does not compute. And Rose was never 100% last year. Thats why he got injured, because he WASNT HEALTHY. That is why (imo) his camp is not rushing him back, last year Rose "manned up" and tore his acl.

Big 10 rumors: No more FCS games New conference alignments Possible 9-10 conference game schedule

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 13, 2013 -> 03:01 PM) Except LeBron. I do not believe him to be a human being. Hes not an exception if hes an alien. Thats why I said "humans" there are a few non-humans in every sport.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Feb 13, 2013 -> 01:59 PM) But Rose played the least amount of games in his entire career last year, missing what, 30+ games? He was as fresh as he'll ever be in the first week in the playoffs and he still got hurt. Personally, I think the playing time thing is rubbish. I understand the complaint if they were playing 3 games in 4 nights and playing 45+ minutes each game. But that's got nothing to do with their health and more to do with an ability to give 110% (!) effort in the 3rd and 4th games, to the point that the team is at a competitive disadvantage. I haven't seen Thibs overwork his players to that point yet. The bold is where I disagree. If you look at the game logs from last year, many times after he played around 40 minutes, he would then miss a week or a few weeks. When you play through injuries and you dont let them heal 100%, there is a potential that you do permanent damage or that you slow down the recovery time. Players are humans, humans break down if you overwork them.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Feb 13, 2013 -> 02:08 PM) Some players do (I remember them specifically mentioning it when Willis McGahee got hurt), but IIRC the policies only pay out in the event of career ending injuries, not temporary injuries that simply cost you money because you fall in the draft. It depends on the policy. These are not normal things. Willis McGahee had insurance, not sure who it was through, I would assume Lloyds of London. They insure a lot of "odd" items, and those policies are all very specifically tailored. You could get insured for temporary injury, but the premium would likely sky rocket. Given the fact that a lot of these players are not wealthy, they just may not be able to afford to proper coverage.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 13, 2013 -> 08:42 AM) I'll be honest, his refusal to recruit bothers me way more than this does. Agreed. QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Feb 13, 2013 -> 09:41 AM) I've heard fans say this, and media pundits say this, but have any of his players ever complained about it? Im not sure what a player would say. Some guys want to play through injuries, Deng could be saying that "he has no pain" and "he is fine." But part of being a coach is that you have to draw the line for your players. I just feel that Thibs has a tendency to push that line farther than other coaches. It may not lead to injuries, it may make no difference, but it just leaves room to question. Especially after Rose was severely injured last year, after people were questioning whether Thibs should be sitting Rose/Deng more. You protect your valuable assets. Thats my opinion.

Yeah they really dont have any incentive to accept early if there is earnest money that you would forfeit.

That sucks and its an example of why I think a player should leave early if he can get life changing money.

Isnt that what Rose was doing last year? Or what RGIII was doing? Its all fun to be a man, that is until you get injured and are never the same.

You bid the offer, they should take your money and run.

I think Rose's camp is thinking about what happened to Rose last year when he kept playing through injuries. The Bulls are getting a bad reputation recently about how they are treating injured players. Whether that is right or wrong, theyve been making guys who are hurt play a ton of minutes.

This is Rose's first major injury right? Sometimes that spooks a player. AP had already been through an injury, so he didnt have as much fear, but he even talks about how you are afraid to make moves because you think you are going to get hurt. Im not sure whats going on, I just dont want Rose to get hurt again. When I dreamed he did, I really felt bad for him, like devastatingly bad.

If they want cash they better expect to give a discount. If youve been pre-approved for funding at that level I usually think thats just as good as cash. They get paid by the bank, they dont have to worry.

Good Im glad they made him wait. The dream was basically that he had been rushed back, so Id rather they play it extremely safe as the Bulls are likely in the playoffs.

Uh so reading this thread I just realized I had a bad dream last night. I guess because it seemed real (just watching a basketball game) I didnt even think about it, but Rose came back and hurt his knee again. It was pretty sad. I must be subconsciously worried.