Soxbadger

Ill try and give a fair perspective. 1) Reed was considered one of our best if not best prospects. The reason that we probably chose to trade him instead of Borchard, Anderson, Sweeney, is that Reed looks to be a Kotsay type of hitter (most common comparison). Also there were some questions of whether or not he could be a centerfielder, or eventually would have to be a corner outfielder. Reed looks to be a player who will consistently hit +.280 20 hr, and depending on where he is in the line up approach 100 rbis or 100 runs. He will be an average to above average base stealer, maybe getting 25 sbs, I think they have said he gets thrown out to much but Im going from my own mind. Also, because he is going to Safeco, some of these numbers may go down, it just depends on how he adjusts, and what his main focus is when he reaches the majors. If he just tries to hit for average and get on base, he could be a great compliment for Ichiro at the top of the line up, as he has good plate discipline. 2) Olivo is a solid catcher, who has potentially great to All-Star upside. He has a very good bat against LHP, and eventually should settle into RHP. He seems to need work on some times covering the outer half of the plate, but other than that he is a pretty good offensive catcher. He also has a great arm, and could become one of the better defensive catchers in the league. His biggest problem will be adjusting and hitting in Safeco, as it was reported the trade was hard on him, especially since he seemed to be comfortable with the Sox. If he doesnt settle in with Seattle, he may slump, especially since Safeco is not as good of a hitters park, and Seattle is not as good of a hitting team. With the Sox he batted 9th, which relieved him of almost all pressure and he was able to thrive. There have been questions about his game calling, but I think that is more smoke than substance. 3) Morse I know the least about, but prior to this year I do not think he was doing that well. He seems to have turned the corner, and articles about him talk about his large frame and whether or not he will eventually be moved to 3b. Its hard to project whether or not he will ever make the Majors, hes 22, so he has to start making his move up the chain now. I think the Mariners got a good trade, time will tell, especially since alot depends on this season. SB

I think the point of the thread was to show how our newly improved pitching staff compares to everyone else. Putting Garland into that would make no sense, as we already know that we are not as good as the other top 3 when he is there. No need to beat a dead point. SB

As for last year with the Braves: 2nd in RBIs with 126, 6 behind Sheffield with 132 4th in Runs with 101, behind Chipper, Sheff, and Furcal 3rd in total bases with 305, behind Lopez and Sheff 3rd in home runs with 36, behind Lopez and Sheff Lets look at 2002 2nd in Runs with 91, behind Furcal. 2nd in TB with 287, behind Chipper Jones. 2nd in RBI with 94, behind C Jones 1st in HR with 35. (Yes I have looked at the stats here they are. Sheff had a whole 6 more RBI's than Jones did, and Giles did not beat Jones in any category including runs.) Notice how outside of BA, Jones is in the top 5 on the braves in almost every category, in 2002 his OPS was 3rd, in 2003 his OPS was 4th. In the last 2 years he has been more consistent than Sheff and C. Jones, and to say he didnt do enough, is to not understand that outside of Sheff and Javy Jones was for sure the best offensive player they had, and played a premium defensive position at GG level. Why is Jones slumping? Its hard to tell, it might be injury, but it is more likely that the Brave's lineup is horrendous this year. The loss of Lopez and Sheff who were on fire last year, has really put the line up in a tail spin. C. Jones has been brutal, so that leaves really only 2 offensive threats in the line up Drew and Jones. Jones has been moved lower in the order, giving him almost no protection, thus he gets worked and falls into a slump. If put on a team where he will get protection, expect his average to go up to .270-.280 his career range. Most thought this would be Jones "huge" year, with over 40 hr, but the loss of potency in that line up has really hurt him. A lot of people thought Konerko was done last year, and Jones has significantly out performed that slump. Add to it that Turner Field is a pitchers park, and Jones could make a major impact on a team like the Sox who play in a more hitters friendly field, with a better line up. Buy low, sell high. For the last 3 years, he would of been considered untouchable, now the Braves are in a bad position and they want to unload him. SB

Bats right, but over his career has higher batting average against rhp than lhp. Just because a player bats a certain way does not mean they will necessarily be more effective than another player. Match ups are important, but every day players should be able to hit both rhp and lhp, regardless of which side of the plate they stand on. (Edit) Then why do most Braves fans consider Jones their best offense and defensive player? That is if he did not do much last year. SB

233 home runs and 6 GG at the age of 27. Andruw Jones is really really terrible player who I would not want to see on the Sox. ::rolls eyes:: Hes never missed more than 6 games in any season. You may not want to trade Maggs for Jones, but to just be blindly dissing Jones shows nothing more than idiocy. Go look at Beltran's stats, hes struck out over 100 times 3 years, and hes never put up the power numbers Jones has, has not won as many GG as Jones has. And they were born 1 day apart. Now why do so many have a hard on for Beltran, but hate Jones? It makes no sense, especially when Beltran is going to get a monster contract, and Jones is already locked into a home town discount contract. But Jones sucks. SB

Its not really that Olivo was the best player on the block, it was more that alot of fans felt he was one of our guys, and when you lose a player like that its sentimental. Who knows when his contract is up, maybe we resign him. Thats what every other team says lol. SB

He overstates our demise and potentially how we could lose for this trade. Next year we will be looking at holes in the starting rotation, RF, and catcher. The rest of the team is locked up, with the Indians being a potential spender, JR will spend to keep pace with them. His MO is not to try and beat everyones brains in, but stay competitive. Whoever is the biggest threat, we will spend to their level. We spent like the Indians when they were the top, we spend like the Twins now. The team that has to win now is the Twins, because a few years ago they were on the cusp of being contracted. The Sox are the staple team of the AL Central, without it, there are only mid to small market teams. Regardless of if we finish 2nd or 1st, Reinsdorf will make his money this year, which might just give them the desire to go out and make an offer on a player like Mulder or Berkman. Who knows, but if anything our salaries for next year give us some major room for improvement. SB

18 starts. We paid for him to win more than 12 games, and I think that he can put a run of wins together with his hopefully imrpoved run support. SB

I think it also had to do with the Sox willingness to take on salary. It might not have been Valentin for Garcia, but it would of been less than Olivo and Reed. Garcia did the Mariner's good with how well he pitched, it was a gamble on Seattle's part that paid of. SB

Back then I was one of the few saying Valentin should be traded for Garcia. Now look at what we had to give up... We could of had Guillen and Garcia for very little if we were willing to pay them. Now we had to trade Olivo and Reed. Puts things into perspective. SB

Yeah Garcia is probably pissed he got traded to one of his best friends and relatives teams. Im sure him and Ozzie are really upset. lol Its called keeping your options open and being a professional. By saying the right thing, he may make himself much more money. "I never want to be back in Seattle" Means 1 less team that might push your price higher. In a bidding war, you need 2 teams, Freddy probably sees Seattle as a good place to drive the market up, but probably wont resign. If he wanted to be a Mariner for life, he would be one. Last I checked in the offseason he was almost nontendered. Hes come along way. SB

I think the Sox really like a guy named Brian Anderson, and felt Reed was a similar type player. SB

His nickname on the Mariners was "Chief". SB

This trade is some what of a suprise, but makes sense when you look at a few things. 1) Garcia was considered the best SP available, we did not settle at all. We went out and got a guy who every 5th day will give us a chance to win, whether our offense is there or not. 2) The Sox at this point may feel that Reed is not needed in their system so they should take advantage of his value now. Borchard is doing well, but with Anderson looking good, they still have outfield options without Reed. 3) It was clear Sox pitchers were not comfortable with Olivo anymore. Whether right or wrong, if our pitchers were unable to pitch with confidence to Olivo, it was better that we went out and got a Garcia type player Now I hope that there is an announcement that they are going to work on resigning Garcia. SB

The good news is, Maddux doesnt seem to be able to stop the Sox either. SB

Walker 2004: $12.5M 2005: $12.5M 2006: Team option $15.0M or $1.0M buyout Also complete no trade clause it appears. Supposedly the Rockies want to deal with the Reds, but the Reds need to find a place to move walker. I mean if you can get the Rockies and Reds to eat $3mil a piece, then Walker is a nice player. But in whatever deal, unless its Yanks or Red Sox, significant cash will be moved. Hence why he can be had so cheap SB

You can get Larry Walker right now for 10 baseballs and a pitcher who is willing to throw 100 innings in coors field and get lit up. SB

Yes im willing to give $9mil to the best defensive CF, who will hit .270 30 hr 100 rbi, and 100 run every year and is still 27 years old. Worse case scenario, he turns it around, and we trade him to another team for SP. Look at all the teams hot on Beltran, if you dont think being in the Sox line up can get you better pitches, just look at what Uribe is doing. Now imagine Jones who is far more disciplined and a far superior hitter seeing those same pitches. Part of Jones' slump is hes unprotected, therefore pitchers are just working him hard, and since he doesnt take walks thats a problem. If hes protected, no ones walking him when Frank's on deck, hes hitting way better. Lee was having that problem earlier in the year, but he had more discipline so had an above average walk rate and still high obp. SB

Jones contract is about what the Sox wanted to pay for Maggs, and its 2-3 years shorter than they would have to give Maggs. Also I assume Atlanta will eat some of the money over the remaining years, which should put Jones at about 9-10 mil annually. For his production and OF ability, that is a good price, seeing as Konerko makes $8mil and isnt nearly the weapon Jones can be. Also, wouldnt we all like to get something for nothing. But unfortunately trading is a two way street. Jones has been Atlantas best player since he was 20, now they are going to send him away for a rent a player or prospects? That doesnt fly well in a place that expects to win every year. (lol Jones k's looking, he needs a change of scenery, and im not saying id prefer Maggs over Jones (thatd be a much harder argument), just we arent going to have Maggs next year, so we need to start making plans. Lee, Jones, and Rowand is a better place to start than, Lee, Rowand, and Borch, Reed, etc. SB

Maggs is leaving next year, Jones would be a replacement for Maggs. We lose Maggs for 3 months this season, and then gain 3 years of Andruw Jones. Otherwise we are going to get 2 draft picks. Its not like Maggs is signed long term, or has said hes going to sign. This is purely, Maggs is in his walk year, we need to get something before he goes. SB

Well there is a scenario, where the White Sox would take on money and could trade for Jones and Ortiz. Braves need a 1b bad, we send Konerko, Rauch, Borch or Reed for Ortiz and Jones. The Sox would take on a ton of payroll, but what else would the Braves be looking for? Also Braves are on TBS right now if you would like to catch a glimpse at Jones. (Lol Brando posted the same Konerko idea) SB

Jones is already signed for the next 3 years at the highest being 13.5mil So we would never even have to worry about a contract, especially cause Atlanta will probably eat some of the salary. Hes a long term solution, that plays a position that is harder to fill. Id love to have Crawford I just dont see him being traded. SB

If you look at it from the Atlanta side they have no interest in dealing with the Sox unless we offer them something like a Maggs for Jones and Ortiz. They dont need nor really want Rauch, so if we are going prospects for Ortiz we are going to have to vastly overpay or throw in Cotts (left handed reliver that they need) Its fun to read these threads and then go read Atlanta fans opinions on the same subject. Some of them still think Jones is the best player in baseball and needs to turn it around, others think that Jones time in Atlanta is up. Regardless, no one there is smoking enough crack to say Rowand is even in the same league as Jones. Jones will probably hit 500 home runs before his career is over. Rowand will be lucky to hit 250. Jones will win 4-5 more GGs Rowand will be lucky to win 1 There are only 2 things Rowand will ever arguably do better than Jones, obp and avg. Both things Jones could vastly improve one day with better pitch selection and a better line up to protect him. Jones Scouting From Espn Rowand If the links work, notice how Jones they consider best CF in last 30 years, and talk about 40 hr and 125 rbis. Rowand is a nice player, but its time to realize he is not Jones, Jones is something special who very well could outproduce Beltran for the next 10 years. SB

Okay if you seriously think Rowand is on the same planet as Andruw Jones, then I cant argue with that. Put Andruw Jones in the 2 hole, and he goes crazy. Hes had one bad year and hes 27 years old. Thats 1 year older than Rowand and look at his career stats. Come on, be reasonable. SB

This was his option free agent next year. Id expect $3mil from Atlanta per year for Jones. SB