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QUOTE(Wedge @ May 22, 2005 -> 07:52 PM) Exactly, that's probably the best way to determine if somebody is an ace: draw a comparison. If you consider Maddux or Glavine aces, then I think you have to give it to Buehrle. Maddux is not longer an ace by any means. But he was an ace for a decade and one of the best pitchers in 20-30 years. Not many can touch what he has done in his career. How many times did glavine pitch over 200 innings with an era under three? Glavine has not always been an ace and either has maddux but they both were for along period of time.

QUOTE(Soxfest @ May 22, 2005 -> 07:01 PM) MB is an ace Sunshine Disagree sunshine.

We do not have one ace let alone four.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ May 22, 2005 -> 05:08 PM) Half of Ozzies pen is lights out. The other half is suspect at best. He's gotta watch who gets the ball in a close game and if we're gonna be close all the time then these 3 that aren't that effective better grab their nuts or pack their bags. I know, this pen excites nearly everyone but me.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ May 22, 2005 -> 05:01 PM) How many games had Maddux won at that point? In the 60's if i am understanding it right.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 22, 2005 -> 05:09 PM) I hope you weren't one of the many posters here that predicted a breakout year for Crede after he had that 2 minute hot streak earlier in the season... Hardly...

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ May 22, 2005 -> 05:03 PM) Is there a group of fans that hate their players more then sox fans do, I'm going to say no. Nearly every other message board is like this actually. Only difference is on most of them you cannot call the players dirty c***s and pieces of s*** like you can here.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ May 22, 2005 -> 05:00 PM) Yes, It's an odd numbered Year. One-pitch Viz sucks. And the Twins win... The relievers that they used today... ERA 2.76 1.96 1.02 1.20 We can't match that. They won the game today for the Twinks. If ozzies going to manage like he's got a lights out pen, he shouldn't be handing the ball to guys with ERA's over half-a-dozen You are acting like that is a bad idea.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ May 22, 2005 -> 04:51 PM) EDIT: And Jason, how about Polanco for Crede and Vizcaino... Or, Polanco + a reliever. Alright, I hate making up trades, but I still like Polanco. Bell still has another year on his contract and it's not like they would move him to second since that would be utley's job when polanco gets moved.

This has nothing to do with this but anyway...

f*** you spivey.

Ground out to third holds both runners. One down still first and third. Come on double play.

Lew ford is good but he is ugly.

QUOTE(knightni @ May 22, 2005 -> 04:43 PM) It is too easy to sit back on our laurels. (ie. 31 wins this early) Change CAN be good as well. BMAC could be the 2003 version of Dontrelle Willis. They had a large whole in their rotation unlike us ( at this point anyway). Burnett only made four starts for them that year and someone had to fill in for him and he was lucky enough to get the call up. I mean he only had four starts in double a. Edit: six starts in double a.

You said something smart for once.

QUOTE(rangercal @ May 22, 2005 -> 04:34 PM) We are in a division race. Don't we want our best 25 out there? If you could figure out someone that could could down and it makes sense, sure. But you will not be able to. We already need to send two players down for gload and thomas ( walker and timo?). No one else will be sent down by the sox. I could possibly see cottsgetting sent down in favor of mccarthy. For one cotts cannot get lefties out and vizcaino can. For two cotts is supposedly our long reliever yet he never pitches in long relief. I think mccarthy is better suited for long relief ( which is apparently situations that the game is close according to ozzie) than cotts is at this point in time.

QUOTE(rangercal @ May 22, 2005 -> 04:30 PM) Bmac looked good today. It's one game. But if he continues I don't see how that can hurt us. How can you send him down if he is major-league ready right now? He is not getting paid anything compared to hernandez and contreras and he has options left.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ May 22, 2005 -> 04:14 PM) He'll be in the rotatoin for a long time. Duque isn't that good and when/if he ends up being out (its just a matter of time) than Brandon is going to take over, dominate, and not give up his spot. Fact of the matter is Duque isn't that grand. Now this may not be the time that Brandon takes over the rotation, but odds are its going to happen at some point this year. Anyone that thinks Duque will make it threw this year healthy is crazy (or at least I think they are, LOL). Mccarthy won't make any more than ten starts this year unless hernandez or someone else is out long term. After this year he will be in the rotation long term but i honestly cannot see him sticking this year. I wish that was the case but it's not something i can see the sox doing.

QUOTE(knightni @ May 22, 2005 -> 04:10 PM) There should be no usch thing as "wait til next year" in the Sox' vocabulary. They have best record in then MLB. THIS year is our year. The only way mccarthy will be in the rotation long term this year is a six man rotation... which will not happen.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ May 22, 2005 -> 04:04 PM) For the most part it's not a bad idea but with Brandon it is. That's a good way to do it for a pitcher to gain confidence and realize he can pitch in the show. Bmac knows he can pitch here and he needs to be taking the ball every 5 days to improve even more. Our bullpen needs more depth, it really does. It is not as good as every one claims/ has claimed. None of buehrle, hernandez, contreras, garland, or garcia is gonna go into the pen no matter how much anyone thinks so or hopes so. I have no problem with mccarthy starting this year if hernandez is out but once he returns hernandez is one of our starters this year know matter how well mccarthy does in the next start or two. The only logical choice would be for mccarthy to be moved into the bull pen. Next year we could look to move one of hernandez/contreras to fit mccarthy in.

QUOTE(knightni @ May 22, 2005 -> 03:54 PM) Contreras has got to be the guy who gets moved. He is the most erratic as a SP, but has the best fastball. He'd be a great setup man. No. We are not gonna pay a pitcher that is making the amount of money he is into the pen. He has pitched very well this year, that is not how you reward someone. If we moved him to the bullpen i can only see it back firing .

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ May 22, 2005 -> 03:55 PM) NO That hurt buehrle and many pitchers that got eased into the rotation. My bad.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ May 22, 2005 -> 03:53 PM) come on people, he gave up a pop fly homer, it wasnt a bad pitch, and any other day that would have been in the mitt. Great game by everyone, good series, lets take em at the CELL Excuses are already really old for this guy. He has given up at least one run nine out the 17 times he has entered a game. That is what i call pathetic. We could have a hundred other pitches do the same thing for much less.

QUOTE(knightni @ May 22, 2005 -> 03:51 PM) Who would you suggest then; El Duque? If BMAC keeps haveing success, you just CAN'T send him back to AAA. Send walker down and put mccarthy in the pen. We can surely use the help in the pen. I have said all year that the pen was gonna be the weak spot and it is proving to be so. Cotts, shingo, and vizcaino don't scare anyone. Quite the opposite actually.

QUOTE(knightni @ May 22, 2005 -> 03:48 PM) I'd be all for sending Viz back to the NL for a decent prospect, then moving Contreras to the BP after El Duque comes back. We would be moving contreras to the pen ( arguably our second best starter at this point) why? Just for s***s and giggles?