Marty34

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:35 PM) You are correct on this statement, they did not. However, they were the first ones to properly value the walk. Remember when Steve Garvey won the MVP in 1974 with 31 walks but a .312 average, while his teammate Jimmy Wynn hit for a .271 average but walked 108 times? So, obviously if you are valuing walks properly, you do not believe sabermetrics to be a gimmick. If you are suggesting otherwise, please choose one of the two players I have provided. Here is the post again for your reference. Player A - .263 BA, 41 HR, 114 RBI, 96 R, 5 SB, 4 CS Player B - .276 BA, 28 HR, 66 RBI, 75 R, 5 SB, 0 CS There are only very minor differences in era here. Please tell me which of these back of the baseball card players you would prefer to have on your team. One of them was a notorious abuser of PEDs while the other was merely suspected. I wholeheartedly agree that Sabremetricians brought to light the importance of walks. After that though . . .

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:26 PM) So you're missing at bats, doubles, triples, and games played? D.O.B. too.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:25 PM) Surely you can't be talking about walks and strikeouts, can you? Those are tomfoolery samerfetrics! Sabremetricians discovered the walk!

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:21 PM) Player A - .263 BA, 41 HR, 114 RBI, 96 R, 5 SB, 4 CS Player B - .276 BA, 28 HR, 66 RBI, 75 R, 5 SB, 0 CS Those are not all of the statistics on the back of the card.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:20 PM) Rafael Palmeiro's 1999 season was one of the greatest defensive seasons in history by a 1b according to my baseball card. He gut lucky. Sabremetricians know all about that.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:19 PM) Defense. You know, that part of the game not hitting for position players? Or do you think that defense doesn't actually exist, or is simply hot air? Defense is a statistic that Sabremetricians made up. Wonderful.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:16 PM) Of wizardry? Here ya go... Of what isn't on the back of a baseball card? How about ANYTHING meaningful about defense. No example, just a lot of hot air from the Sabermetricians.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:12 PM) Well unless they've started putting microchips on the backs of baseball cards since I collected them, I'd say a lot. Advanced metrics includes getting a lot more raw data, but more so is about different lenses to see the data. From the perspective of a statistician (not baseball, but in general), this stuff isn't even very complex. It is elementary analysis techniques. Filter out pollution and noise to give a more meaningful answer to a question. This isn't wizardry. can I have an example?

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:00 PM) Well done. Changed the subject AND created a straw man in that brief a post. We aren't talking about scouting high school kids here. No one is saying advanced statistical analysis can do that. No one. We're talking about results in the majors. What does Sabremetrics tell you that you can't find from the stats on the back of baseball cards.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 21, 2014 -> 01:59 PM) The Boston Red Sox have won 3 World Series in 10 years. How's that? Take away their money and their PEDs.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 21, 2014 -> 01:57 PM) I'd say the Boston Red Sox have benefited the most. What about the great Alex Anthopouis?

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 21, 2014 -> 01:55 PM) So trolling. I bet you thought math was a gimmick in school too, right? Because that is all it is. Creating formulae and algorithms to analyze measurable events and data. What players have Sabremetrics discovered? I could tell you Mike Trout is an elite player.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 21, 2014 -> 01:50 PM) Calling sabermetrics a gimmick is like saying hitting home runs is a gimmick. NO TEAM WILL EVER USE THAT except that all teams, to some degree, run their teams through sabermetric analysis. Like I said, it's largely a gimmick. Who has benefitted most from Sabremetrics? Those who sell products based around bootleg stats.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ May 21, 2014 -> 12:57 PM) The only people that claim it is or is intended to be the "be all, end all" of statistics are those who don't understand what they're talking about. EDIT: Like you. Sabermetrics is largely a gimmick.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 21, 2014 -> 10:04 AM) LMAO. You often use a guy's WAR and add it to the team win total to tell us what difference he would have made. You did it with AJ last year, laughing at Greg thinking he would have made more than a couple of games difference. Now, a quarter way through the season, Adam Dunn could have already made 2 or 3 games difference? At least be consistent. The good news is Dunn's production this season isn't all that much better than his production the last calendar year. He might be able to maintain it or at least come pretty close. I got a laugh out of that too. WAR is the last word in baseball arguments until it's not.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 20, 2014 -> 07:52 PM) Shields or Masterson seems more likely. Two starters are needed for next year. I think it would be silly to count on anything from the farm.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 19, 2014 -> 07:56 PM) I know we've talked about this, but I think you have to keep him. You can't have Sale and then 4 unknowns heading into next season. Unfortunately, almost all of the trade chips were used last year for non-pitching returns. If they want to compete with this core of position players and are saddled with Danks for three years at #5 and Sale who might be best utilized for 30 starts a year, they are going to need a very strong #2, #3, #4. If Q can be turned into a potential top-of-the-rotation starter I think they should consider it.

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ May 19, 2014 -> 07:51 PM) No, the real problem is the Sox aren't making routine plays. No, the real problem is no starting pitching. Defenses, like yesterday against Danks for example, can't defend home runs.

The poor fielding is obscuring the real problem which is starting Noesi, Danks, and Carroll back-to-back-to-back.

I think Quintana being moved might be a possibility given the long-term pitching issues we have.

Danks performance post-surgery should not be a surprise to anyone.

The expectations from the Danks thread on this board in the offseason of 2011 would be an interesting read.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ May 18, 2014 -> 02:16 PM) Has to be a pitcher or people need to resign............KW If still in charge would take a toolsy player at #3, that has worked out so well. A high school pitcher likely isn't going to help this core of position players.

QUOTE (flavum @ May 17, 2014 -> 03:36 PM) Release Noesi. Move Carroll to the pen. Get Sale and Johnson back. I think the best place for first year pitchers to develop is as a long-reliever. I'd leave Carroll in the rotation and put Johnson as the long-reliever.

What's Paulino doing these days?