fathom

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 05:05 AM) Good post. Those are some bright spots, but not that many. But how bout looking at the team in bunches: Offense as a whole; pitching as a whole; defense as a whole. Considering we are losing Peavy, Youk and AJ, please comment on if you think the Sox are in better position than a year ago. Answer this simply: Are the Sox a .500 team entering next season if we pick up say a Guthrie to replace Jake and go with our young starters to fill out the rotation? Way too early to predict what the rest of the team would look like. Who knows, maybe the go into more of a rebuild mode and don't even bother signing a major free agent. I'm not going to lose sleep over that right now.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 05:04 AM) He hasn't exactly had a stacked deck to use, but he's made some really stupid decisions this month. I felt like early on he stayed out of the way and didn't do too much, now it's the fact that he has 60 guys on the bench and no clue how to actually use them. Whether the moves work or not, you still have to make the logical move beforehand and lately he just hasn't. Well yes, I definitely agree with that. I think not having a veteran bench coach to help with the decision making has been a huge downfall.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 04:59 AM) Not bad. I'll add to your last part...RV showing he doesn't really know how to manage in-game, especially with an expanded roster. For as much as I've bashed Ventura, I'm not sure any manager could have salvaged things down the stretch. Nearly every single player seems to be in choke mode. Outside of Dunn connecting on an 0-2 pitch on Monday, every possible thing that could go wrong has since last Wednesday.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 03:53 AM) For the rest of time you can bring up 2012 and it's not going to bring positive memories, just pain and anguish for me. I respect that, but maybe it's just that I never felt this team was going to be good enough to hold off the more talented Tigers. Even in 2006 and 2008, I had started thinking of who the Sox matched up better with in the postseason. Hell, I've never once even thought of who the Sox could play in the postseason if they made it.

Reasons I think Sox are in better position now than a year ago: - Dunn proved that he didn't forget how to play the game of baseball, meaning his contract wasn't an absolute waste going forward - Manto was able to make Rios into a good player again - Chris Sale proved he can be a very good starter in the majors - Good experience for Reed and Jones (Jones was never even expected to be in the big leagues this year) - Quintana came out of nowhere and gives you hope he can be a 5th starter. Santiago started the year as closer, failed, and then showed some promise as a possible starter - ADA proved he can be a very solid player, and gives us the best all-around leadoff hitter the Sox have had in a long time - Ventura proved he knows how to motivate the players and create a good environment in the clubhouse. The biggest setback was Morel looking like he's not MLB caliber, causing the Sox to have to scramble to find a 3B this year and in the future.

QUOTE (Baron @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 04:45 AM) Why are you asking me? Go look at the list of pitchers. A few guys would be just fine on that list and there may be some out on the trade market. You didn't hear? The Sox will lose Peavy, Floyd, AJ, Youk and Thornton and won't replace them with anyone outside the organization.

QUOTE (BigEdWalsh @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 03:43 AM) Last year at the season end there was very very little to be optimistic about in regard to the next (2012) season. Most thought it was going to be a rebuilding year. As this season progressed and the Sox were actually contending (much to most people's amazement), then yeah this "became our year". They've let us down at the end but who really honestly thought at the beginning of the season they would be "fighting" for 1st place. This end to the season has been painful but hey, I and probably most, never would have dreamed that the 2012 Sox would even sniff 1st place. The Sox are in a heap of uncertainty moving forward though, but that's sure not anything new. Phenomenal post. It's disappointing that team has collapsed down the stretch, but there's no doubt I'll have positive memories about this season in the years to come. The Sox are in a much better position going forward into the future now as opposed to a year ago.

QUOTE (flavum @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 03:41 AM) Good luck with the Dodgers next year.

As one of Peavy's biggest critics on here, if this was his last start with the Sox, I'm very happy that he went out on a positive note. Thanks for a stellar 2012.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 04:39 AM) The biggest lead was 3 1/2 games, and tonight marks the biggest deficit, passing the 1 1/2 margin after the first sweep in Detroit. Never in control. It felt in control after we finally beat DET and had a 3 game lead. It did? Everyone was worried about the road trip at KC and Anaheim.

QUOTE (Jake @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 03:32 AM) If it is, it is simply because we haven't had very many division leads. Losing a lead that was hardly larger than 3 games at any point in time isn't that epic of a collapse, especially given how close we were to .500 the entire time Yep, exactly. 2006 seemed like a bigger collapse to me, as that team seemed significantly more talented and was the best Sox team I had ever seen during the first half of the season.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 03:29 AM) It's going to be so sad when 10 years from now we look back at the 2012 season and see the Sox finished 5 games back, and maybe not even remember how in control we were of this division until an epic collapse in the final couple weeks of September allowed a terribly under performing Detroit team to get away with all their pitfalls and fall backwards in to the playoffs. The Sox were never in control, even with a 3 game lead, simply due to the final 2 weeks on the schedule for both teams.

QUOTE (RZZZA @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 04:28 AM) Wouldn't it be awesome if the Tigers somehow went on to win the World Series now? LOL That would just be the cherry on top of the fail sundae. Why wouldn't that happen, too. It happened with the Packers, it happened with the Heat. Our sports rivals always seem to go all the way at our expense. Not to be "that" fan, but 2005 made all those scenarios you mentioned much easier to handle

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 04:28 AM) I would go back to the 2nd DET game following the Quintana opening win. They had just tied the game with a Wise walk and had bases loaded, no outs, 3-3 against Fister. Youk lined to 3rd, Dunn struck out and that was the beginning of the end. Hitting with RISP has been the bane of this team for weeks now, after leading the majors for the first 4 1/2 months of the season. The bases loaded debacle you're referring to was in Detroit.

QUOTE (Jake @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 03:24 AM) Well, at least most of Soxtalk is happy. They predict bad play all season and all game and they finally get it! Wow

QUOTE (Friend of Nordhagen @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 03:21 AM) It would appear that the White Sox began their slide when Francisco Liriano coughed up that 3-run lead in KC. Not much good has happened since the 5th inning of that game, and that sucks. I'd point to the night before when Viciedo, Alexei and Flowers all failed to at least tie the game with bases loaded and no outs. At the time, the team had won 5 in a row and had Sale on the mound. They never seemed to recover after that failed opportunity, and the struggles with RISP reached almost unbelievable heights.

Blah...this collapse has been sickening

QUOTE (Baron @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 03:19 AM) They would have no reason to do so. I bet he stays. Bring him back to play 1b for Boston

Where's Alex Cintron when we need him?

QUOTE (Brian @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 03:17 AM) Nobody can convince me that if we had been playing Dan Johnson more, things would be different. +1

QUOTE (Jake @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 03:16 AM) HA! That's a fun way to interpret that conversation. That was "sometimes guys that bunt for a hit well are not good sacrifice bunters, we'll see if Wise falls into that category since he looked like s*** bunting the first pitch" Um, he actually said Wise has looked much more comfortable trying to bunt for a hit. This wasn't the first time that Wise failed to get a sac bunt down.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 03:15 AM) Won't it be nice to see guys like Myers gone? It's amazing to me how bad his stuff has been. Thankfully that option won't kick in.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 03:13 AM) Look who it is. Him and ADA the best at bats so far this week.

QUOTE (Jake @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 03:13 AM) We have some excellent arm chair quarterbacking tonight because I don't see these managerial moves as anything but what would seem obvious at the time. You pinch run a guy that you don't want to hit and you pinch hit your best pinch hitter who has had several bunt singles in our uniform to lay down a bunt. If he fails to do that, you know that he knows how to hit his way out of a paper bag. Even Stone said that Wise is bad bunting for a sacrifice. Wise is also far and away our fastest runner, yet he decided to use Danks instead.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 03:11 AM) Disagree. I think he's done a tremendous job getting this far with a bullpen of rookies. Sure he made his mistakes, but to compete for the division until the last week of the season? I don't know how you can be hard on the guy. It's not like he was handed the keys to the Yankees. Again, he was doing great prior to a month ago. However, he seems just as tight as the entire team, and his decision making has gone from really good all year to decisions that even his biggest supporters can't explain.