fathom

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jul 17, 2006 -> 09:51 PM) You can't just GIVE someone to Cooper and say, "Take this guy, and fix him." Cooper works best with talented people who need to have their mechanics tinkered with, really. Thornton is a prime example, and I think one of the few examples. I believe I've read that Cooper is also good at helping pitchers develop offspeed stuff to balance their attacks. Contreras isn't an example of Coop's skills, of course. He was more fixed by his family, El Duque and Ozzie than Cooper. There's only so much he can do for Freddy, too, and Javier. Javier needs to be thought how to kill off a guy with two strikes on him. Actually, Cooper's been most effective when he gets his pitchers to ditch their 3rd and 4th pitches, and he has them focus on their main pitches. Cotts and Thornton throw 90 pct fastballs. And trust me when I say that there were some people on this site that thought Cooper could make any pitcher into a quality pitcher.

A couple of thoughts: - Joe Crede will be the Sox 3rd baseman for the next 5 years. - Josh Fields' stock is never going to be higher. - Josh Fields greatest asset to the Sox organization will be as a trade chip. I don't believe we'll ever see him with the White Sox at the big league level. - Personally, I'd rather get someone a little better for our long-term future than Linebrink. For everyone saying he's be easier to re-sign, have you forgotten the insane contracts that were signed by middle relievers this off-season? I don't want to have to offer him a 3/15 deal.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 17, 2006 -> 12:43 AM) I never for a second was arguing that Posednik is anywhere near the hitter Abreu is. I was pointing to the fact that at every possible opportunity, someone has to rip the guy. Guess what, folks? It was fashionable to explain why Scottie is worthless last year. This year, it's cliche. But don't fret, I've heard Freddy Garcia is the new Pods. Maybe it's because he really isn't valuable, and it's amazing how overrated he's been by some Sox fans in his year and a half with the team. He has swung the bat better the last two games, so hopefully he's start making things happen again.

Just an absolutely hillarious inning. I wonder who Todd Walker will blame for his defense this inning. What a d#ck.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 17, 2006 -> 12:18 AM) Here we go again with the Pods bashing. I know it makes you Saber guys excited to point out what a worthless player he is, but if you haven't noticed, he is doing a pretty decent job of getting on base lately. I suppose it would be the ultimate coup d etat for the WS Saber community to replace worthless Pods with the god-like Abreu. No, it's actually the non-SABR guys that hate him. His defense is absolutely pathetic, and his fundamentals are laughable.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:46 PM) We dont' have anywhere near the luck factor that we did last year. I criticize you often for complaining about bloopers, etc. However, I definitely agree that it seems we're not catching the breaks we got last year. It's funny, but the Tigers seem to be catching all the breaks now.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:41 PM) In that large real estate of CF Mack would be a butcher. He wouldnt have a prayer out there. Running down liners into the gap. I would rather have Anderson and his approach. He could get a hit off of Randy, he can get a hit off of Mussina. He can go up against Bonderman. I'm not so sure that Dye or PK won't need a day off this series. Dye looks injured out there, as he's lost about 3 steps in the field.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:40 PM) To be totally honest, tough I'm not entirely optimistic about his long term success in major league baseball, I'd be thrilled if Kenny found some way to pick him up before the deadline. He'd more than likely dominate the American League for the rest of this season with his funky delivery and arm angles. I used to be against it. Now, I'm willing to give anyone a chance on our roster.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:31 PM) Freddy is one of the top names, but Kenny wants to upgrade this rotation. I just don't think the guy he wants is really on the market. Willis?

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:30 PM) Yup. We have an off day tomorrow. People are gonna be rested. Podsednik Iguchi Thome Konerko Dye Pierzynski Crede Uribe Anderson We better f***ing see that announced as the starting lineup, all three games. I wouldn't mind seeing Cintron at SS against Bonderman, and I would understand Mackowiak playing somewhere against him also.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:27 PM) Who exactly are the Yankees going to use to make this trade? Scott Proctor? Sidney Ponson? The 'great' Erik Duncan? I doubt Phillip Hughes is going anywhere, and their Tabata kid is only in A-ball. I can't believe some people are complaining about an offense that ranks first in all of baseball, 28 runs ahead of the vaunted Boston offense. If you can't see that the reason we're losing right now is because of our 16th ranked 4.57 ERA, then maybe you need a new game. They'll find a way to get Abreu, as the Phillies will do anything to get rid of his contract. Trust me, I know the reason we're losing is because of the pitching. However, when Freddy Garcia is one of the top names on the market, it doesn't get my hopes up that something can be done. Can we count on the offense to continue to produce at such a high rate though?

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:16 PM) How is being optimistic about a World Series-caliber team in a good position to possibly repeat but currently in a funk anywhere near close to being eternally optimistic about a perenially horrible franchise?? Well said. There's quite the difference, in this instance.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:08 PM) Is there any need for saying Javy has the testicular fortitude of a nine year old girl? I think factual information, good or bad, is allowed.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:04 PM) Oh, come on mate, don't pretend that I've ravished your feelings by teasing you about The Sureness of the Source. No, you're just being annoying about it. I'll just stick to discussing XBox trades then, and only tell the information I hear to people who are respectful enough to know that s*** happens in baseball. JimH and I don't agree on much, but at least we both understand the way the baseball industry works.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:00 PM) We are playing bad and there are some definite problems, but I know we have the talent and I'm expecting Jon to continue to pitch good, Jose to do his thing and in fact get more so to how he was early this year while I actually think Vazquez is going to have a big 2nd half. I just hope Buehrle can figure things out...who knows about Freddy but we can put this thing back together real quick, imo. At the same time, if tihe pitching doesn't improve this team isn't going to be wearing another ring this time next year. If it means anything, I'm 99 pct sure that Vazquez will have a better 2nd half than Garcia.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:00 PM) Overall, his stuff is still there, and I'll bet he winds up okay. Yeah, well, not everyone can be spot on as you, fathom. Sean Tracey says hello! Well, it's stupid comments like this which make people hesitant to report rumors on this site. Keep up the personal attacks though, it will last long. And yes, I'm 100 pct certain that Ozzie said that s*** about Tracey. If he didn't, then there's a member of our organization who's a blatant liar.

Would this qualify as an "In or Out" thread, version 2006?

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 09:55 PM) So basically all you're going on is a gut feeling and optimism? What as Vazquez ever done that has shown you he can overcome his mental midgetry? There's a long list of General Managers who have been criticized for having this same optimism with Vazquez.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 09:30 PM) Well the bench is going to play whether you like it or not, which obviously you don't. How about that shot that Jeter hit yesterday, right over Anderson's head. It happens. Mackowiak is about the last person to blame for this weekend's debacle. Quit trying to pin everything on Guillen, it's tired. The 3-4-5 hitters went 1-12 with runners in scoring position but I suppose that's Guillen's fault too. Garcia has a crap 1st inning, that's Guillen's fault. When Brandon "the savior" McCarthy gets plugged into the rotation and gets lit up, will that be Guillen's fault too? I choose to blame the players who don't execute and frankly haven't executed in the Boston series or this series. I'm not blaming Ozzie for having to play Mackowiak out there earlier in the year, as Anderson put this team in a hole. However, he's been playing very well lately, and especially at Yankee Stadium, you need a solid CF out there. Yes, Anderson misplayed a line drive yesterday, and I gave him s*** for it in the game thread. Players are going to make mistakes in the field, but it's a lot easier to take when it's someone playing there actual position. I actually feel bad for Ozzie this season, as he keeps waiting for our starting pitching to live up to its "potential", but they're not coming close to how they were last year. I really wish he'd have more confidence in guys like McCarthy/Cotts to start innings themselves.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 09:38 PM) I don't think his fastball and curve are good enough to compliment his changeup well enough, and I don't think he'll be all too consistent with his stuff when he pitches full-time. If that's true, then why in the world would you want Garcia still pitching?

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 09:00 PM) We started the season off well last year, too, but began this year's like crap before kicking it into high gear. We'll be fine. And fathom: I'm glad you like the other teams better than ours, talent-wise. Did you feel that way last year, too, whenever we lost to the Red Sox or Yankees in the season? We had a lot better pitching, and our chemistry was phenomenal last year. That was apparent even to pessimists like myself. However, talent level doesn't mean much. I think Javier Vazquez is the golden boy of how talent doesn't mean everything.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 08:39 PM) No offense, but you're totally off base here. On paper, no team in baseball has more talent up and down the list than the White Sox. Unfortunately, someone forgot to tell our starting pitching that fact. Seriously, who would have thought 2 months ago that today I'd be ready to praise Greg Walker for the great work he's done on Uribe and Anderson's swing, and keeping Crede from falling into a slump, and at the same time, wondering what the Hell Cooper's being paid for these days? I think the White Sox are extremely talented, but one of their main strengths was their chemistry. The Red Sox are loaded this year, and if their starters were able to pitch to their abilities, they'd be the best team in baseball. It's too bad that KW got suckered like previous General Managers did into thinking that Vazquez could actually be a "winner".

QUOTE(rangercal @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 08:25 PM) 4 posts already. I looked over the last few game winner threads and found 0 posts for you. Also, out of everyone on this site, I think I'm the last person that can be accused of only posting if we lose. QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 08:29 PM) What did I just say? They are NOT playing to their potential. If the Yankees make their expected trade, them and the Red Sox will have more pure talent than we do. However, if you make it to the playoffs, anything can happen.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 08:27 PM) If everybody plays to their potential then nobody could touch us. That's obviously not happening right now. Can our pitchers consistently get out their tough hitters? It sure didn't seem like it.

QUOTE(rangercal @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 08:25 PM) 4 posts already. I looked over the last few game winner threads and found 0 posts for you. Well, I guess I should let you know that I had appendicitis, and was in the hospital for a few days. Then when I got back, I stayed away from the computer for a few days. Thanks for your concern though.