fathom

QUOTE(ScottPodRulez22 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:30 AM) Contreas= 35 Bmac= 21 Thats a big differnce Contreras has the mental mindset of a teenager on the mound. Nothing against the man, as he's gone through more than all of us combined in his life, but I don't trust him for a second in a crucial situation.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:28 AM) Well the Counts next start is against his favorite team, the BoSox. This will give us a good barometer of how far he has truly come. Can we pray for rain now?

QUOTE(ScottPodRulez22 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:27 AM) Its hard to learn when you have no confidence If you get beat up in AAA, then you have more problems than your confidence. We shouldn't be babying McCarthy in the minors. If we were to send him down to AA, that might shatter his confidence more than any shelling he'd receive in AAA.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:25 AM) And because of McCarthy's frame he's probably going to fill out and add that little bit of extra velocity that he is going to need. It's not like Cotts throws real dominating stuff anyway. Cotts big advantage is being a lefty with a deceptive delivery.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:24 AM) BMac should be in AA. I severely disagree. McCarthy should be in AAA. It will teach him to keep the ball in the park. In AAA, instead of facing a bunch of prospects who will swing at everything, he'll get more used to facing ex MLB players who might have better strike zone judgment. Remember the game against KC where McCarthy couldn't strike out a single batter? That's something that he needs to improve on.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:22 AM) And that was because of a simple adjustment he had to make. See how it can change so easily? That's why I'm saying it's unfair to give up on a guy who hasn't performed in the majors straight away when he shouldn't have even been up there in the 1st place. Once again, I'm not giving up on him. However, there's a difference between the adjustment Cotts made, and what McCarthy needs to improve on. One is more mental, while the other is McCarthy's stuff.

You guys all make solid points, but that doesn't mean that people didn't overrate McCarthy in ST and before he was called up. Just cause someone's overrated, it doesn't mean they can't succeed in the future.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:19 AM) He's still only 190 pounds, he's going to bulk up in the next few years and probably add a few more MPH like you said he needs. It's like Neal Cotts. In SoxFan's books, he wouldn't have done anything 2 months ago. Now he's probably our most dominating lefty out of the pen. And that's because the Sox had PATIENCE with him at the major league level, even though the majority of Sox fans were calling for him to have his ass demoted to Charlotte ASAP. It takes TIME. The main reason Cotts is better now is his control. Remember how awful his control was in the past? I mean, he wasn't even close to the plate.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:16 AM) Overrated are players that make more than they should, and players that get pumped up in the media when they don't deserve to. A lot of White Sox fans would tell you that Paul Konerko is overrated. Half of your response is what I was trying to say about McCarthy. The media made him out to be the second coming this season. Comparisons to Mark Prior and Jack McDowell were made.......instead, he looked like Felix Diaz's long-lost brother. Again, please don't lump me in with those who are giving up on him. I just have no issue trading him for an impact player for the franchise. This whole overrated concept is funny, cause I actually think Iguchi and AJP are drastically overrated right now, while the contributions of Dye and Everett were incredibly underrated in the first half of the season.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:15 AM) Take away his MLB starts. To say he only has 3 wins is not a good argument when you see how bad Charlotte has been this season. He has a 86/20 K/BB ratio. All he has to do is cut down on the long balls. If he starts the year in AA, he would have an ERA of around 2, and people wouldn't call him overrated, in fact people would be putting him on a pedestal. It's not fair for you to base on what he's done when it counts, when he's only 21, and only has 1/2 a season of experience above AA ball. It's like take Gio Gonzalez out of Winston - Salem right now, promoting him to Chicago, he gives up 6 ER in a start, gets demoted, and people are saying he's overrated. The biggest concern I have about McCarthy is that he's going to either have to pick up another 2 mph on his fastball, or he's going to have to change the type of fastball he throws. Right now, he's throwing a pretty average fastball straighter than Hugh Heffner. Hopefully, he'll gain some velocity as his body fills out. However, he's going to have to get some movement on his fastball. It's not like his future MLB home stadium is a pitcher's park.

If McCarthy hasn't been overrated this season, then I don't want to know who is considered overrated.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:05 AM) Yes, go look at his numbers from 2003 and 2004 in the minors and tell me he's underrated. When you pitch that well and dominate like he did you deserve to be touted as a major prospect. Minor league numbers mean jacks***. The worst thing someone can do is get caught up in analyzing someone's minor league stats.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:06 AM) He never should have pitched in the majors this year. He pitched lights out in spring training and was rushed along. They put his development on hold and tried to fill a spot in the rotation with a AA pitcher. He wasn't ready. He is NOT overrated. I remember hearing Hawk and Ozzie saying how we had a great 6th starter in McCarthy if someone got hurt. Then, we called him up, and he was clearly not ready. That's a textbook example of being overrated.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:06 AM) Because he never should have been up with the Sox in the 1st place. Realistically they should have started him in AA this year, and then moved him up to Charlotte after this year's draft. If they did that, and McCarthy was putting up numbers like he did last season, don't you think Sox fans would be getting restless if he wasn't in our rotation when El Duque got injured? I'm not going to disagree that he shouldn't be up. But come on, you know as well as I do that many on here thought McCarthy was going to come up and have a 3.50 ERA while striking out 7 a game. 99pct of Sox fans had too high of expectations for McCarthy. In my book, that's called being overrated.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:02 AM) Did you see his K to BB ratio in the minors? Did you see how many strikeouts he had? Did you see his ERA? Have you ever looked at his stats? Do you even know who he is? He is not overrated. It was not just 1 spring training, it was 2 years in the minors. You have now lost all credibility, not that you had any to begin with. I could care less about credibility, but right now, McCarthy is overrated. Doesn't mean he'll always be overrated, but in his stint with the Sox this year, he underachieved.

This quote in tomorrow's Tribune tells me all I need to know: "I feel comfortable going to the playoffs with Garland, El Duque (Orlando Hernandez), Freddy (Garcia) and (Mark) Buehrle. That's a good enough [rotation] for our guys to contend." Ozzie doesn't like Contreras.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 03:59 AM) Here we go; What publication is this from? I just know what I heard from my neutral MLB scouts, and they were never as high on McCarthy as everyone was on here (which makes sense, of course).

If we're going to trade McCarthy, it has to be for a star player who will help us not only this year, but in the future. Schmidt is what I would classify as a star pitcher, and we'd have his option for next season. Our offense will likely be relatively cheap next season if we don't resign PK. We should be able to afford the 4 stud pitchers then. It's not like Contreras is a cheap number 4 pitcher.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 03:53 AM) McCarthy would have been in the top 15-20 prospects of baseball at the end of last season, and he had the most K's in all of the minors last season IIRC. How can his stock be higher now than at the end of ST? No, I mean that the longer he struggles in AAA, the more his stock will decrease. McCarthy was not rated among the top 20 prospects in baseball after last season.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 03:43 AM) So because B-Mac's amounted to nothing yet, he's automatically tradeable? FWIW McCarthy's last start he only gave up 2 ER in 6IP, and the game was at Charlotte where he has been struggling. It's pretty much giving up 3 major league pitchers for 1, because Brandon McCarthy WOULD be a starter on some teams in the majors. If we'd be able to get Schmidt for Contreras, McCarthy, and Shingo, I'd do that deal without a doubt. First, Shingo is done with. As I said at the beginning of the season, Japanese pitchers lose their stuff quickly as they get older because of the insane amount of pitches they throw in their early 20s. Next, if it's between having Schmidt for this year, as well as picking up his 10.5 mil option for next year, I'd rather have him than Contreras and his 8 mil contract next season. The healthier Schmidt gets, the better he'll be. Schmidt has been a stud pitcher the last few years, and he's much more likely to have a consistent season from start to finish than Contreras. As for McCarthy.....I've seen nothing that would suggest to me he'll even be anything more than a number 4 starter. McCarthy wasn't a huge prospect before the end of last season, and his status was completely overblown in ST. His stock will never be higher than it is right now. Of course, I'd rather trade McCarthy in a package with Sweeney and another player in order to get Lidge.

I just want to know since when did the Sox clinch the AL Central? Sure, a 12 game lead is a nice cushion. However, there's still plenty of games left, including a lot of games between the Sox and Twins. I know a lot of people are concerned with the Contreras vs Schmidt debate for the playoffs, but I'm more interested in Schmidt helping us lock up the AL Central.

Twins just won in the 9th. Tying the game with 2 outs on a wild pitch, and winning the game on an infield single. That's the type of s*** the Twins pull that make any lead against them in the standings never seem big enough.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 02:39 AM) He still has an ERA above 5 in his away starts (which is higher than Contreras in his home starts even after tonight), and a .297 BAA in those starts and got bombed at the Padres (which BTW if Jose did we'd probably want him to jump off a cliff or something). Let's see how he does tonight, and see how his velocity looks especially on that fastball. Padres have always hit Schmidt hard. One of the big advantages, if we did get Schmidt, is that he would be a new look against a majority of the AL players.

QUOTE(chisoxfan79 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 02:37 AM) Did you fall off the face of the earth last weekend before the All Star break. I would be more concerned with A's. Well, if the Sox don't beat out the Twins, the Sox will be watching the Twins and A's play in the postseason then. I'd rather play the A's instead of the Yankees or Red Sox in a short series, no doubt about it.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 02:32 AM) Jose Contreras in a heartbeat. His numbers are better in every way. Congrats, you agree with probably 1 percent of baseball executives then.