ZoomSlowik

Gotta be the deferred money. The actual dollar amounts he is looking for are pretty much set, so I doubt that changed much. It's gotta be how much he makes in that last year and the deferred money. It could be that the Sox are trying to force some kind of diminished skills clause, but I would have thought they would have shot that down immediately. I really want to see Maggs back in a Sox jersey, so I hope this works out. I think Maggs might eventually realize that this DL stint is going to hurt his marketability a little and just take the money while he knows it is there, once he gets a contract in his desired range with reasonable deferrred money.

Definitely not dealing Pavano and Penny. This article seemed to be speculation, bu they don't have a whole lot of tradeable assets outside of their pitching staff. The only other guy they would probably deal is Lowell, and he is a free agent at the end of the year like Pavano. They desperately need someone else that can hit, and if they can get a decent young hitter that is signed for a while, they might bite. Lee probably makes a little much for their liking though.

I think the last few games have shown that we desperately need Maggs. When he was healthy, no one else on the team was doing anything. The following numbers are from memory, but I am pretty sure they are accurate. Frank was hitting about .260 with 10 homers, Valentin had just hit homer #9 and was at about .250, Lee was godawful, he was hitting in the high .230's, Konerko was in the .240's without much power. All of these guys started hitting a ton when Maggs got hurt, and it has stopped. I agree that there are probably better ways to spend his $14 mil, but they really need a big stick, and I'm not sure Finely would cut it. Plus I would rather not depend on a 39 year old that has a bad injury history. If we lose Maggs, which I don't want to do because he is my favorite player and can really help our lineup, we should try to get a pitcher and a hitter, maybe something like Vidro and Perez, altough that would probably cost more like $18 mil than the $14 or $15 Maggs would get. I just don't think our O can afford to lose Maggs without putting another solid hitter in there. Konerko, Valentin, and Lee are way to streaky to depend on them carrying the lineup.

Wilson wasn't all bad before Coors. He was about a .260-.270 hitter with 30 HR power and 20 SB speed. I wouldn't give up a ton for him, but if we ate some of his salary, we could probably get him cheap.

Gload played 1B at Charlotte, I believe exclusively. Why they decided to put him in the outfield is beyond me.

Loaiza really thinks a 31 year old starter that has had exactly 1 1/2 good years is equal to a 27 year old that had a monster season in 2000 or 2001, and was serviceable after that (can't remember which, he was great in one of them) and has been great this year? He gawn! Bring on Pavano or Perez!

If you read the main article on ESPN, they mentioned a few intriguing players being available. One is Preston Wilson. He has been hurt this year, and I know he is another right-handed power hitter, but he had a monster year last year, if memory serves me correctly he was a decent defensive centerfielder, and he has some speed that can help on the basepaths. The more intriguing thing was about the Marlins desperately wanting OF. It speculated that they might move some pitching, specifically mentioning Brad Penny and Carl Pavano. Lee for Pavano? Borchard or Rowand and prospects for one or the other? Thoughts?

Brando, you seem to have a general disdain for prospects. How are you going to build up your team if you don't have any? Anderson has been hitting the ball hard and is an excellent defender. He's 21, in AA, and has yet to show any reason that he is going to be a flop. The guy has a decent chance of being our centerfielder for the next ten years. Randy Johnson may or may not win us anything, if he even wants to come here. It'd be nice to get a player of Randy's caliber in here, but even if we can get them to agree to a deal, Reinsdorf is not going to give us the money. You really think he would invest $10 mil for next year in a 40 year old starter right after he signed Freddy? And how exactly is Pedro going to be rested when he is pitching right now and averaging 104 pitches and 6.4 innings per start? Are you predicting a major injury or something? How did he do in the playoffs last year?

I mentioned Koch for the last few years. If you really think Baldwin is a good pitcher, you need to put the crack pipe down. Parque and Eldred were also key guys, which should show you why we lost. Our pitching was terrible in 2000, that's why we sucked late. This year we've already won a bunch of pitcher's duels, which almost never happened in 2000. Garcia and Buehrle can go out and duel with a lot of guys. Even Garland makes a good start every once in a while. I repeat, with Maggs back, our O will be fine. Replacing someone like Gload or Perez that is basically a .260 hitter with very little chance of getting an extra base hit with a .300 hitter that hits a ton of doubles and 30 homers makes a huge impact. When Maggs was healthy, the other guys weren't really hitting that well. Now that those guys have been doing better, we'll see what happens when you put a guy that can carry a lineup in there.

Many of these guys weren't even here in 2000. This is a totally different team. History means very little to what is happening this year. We didn't have Garcia the last few years, who is our #1 starter now. We didn't have Shingo, who is our closer, and we did have Koch. Our pitching is a lot better than it was in 2000, it was basically Sirotka having a decent year and a collection of crap, so if we didn't score 4 or 5 runs every game we were in trouble. We've been playing around .500 with during a brutal scheduling stretch without our best hitter. That lefty right switch stuff is a bunch of crap. A lot of right handed guys hit righties better, and a lot of lefty guys hit lefties better. And just because it is righty on righty doesn't mean they have the advantage. I'm amazed at how you are making gross generalizations based on a 3 game stretch 4 years ago. By that same logic you are using, one can argue that the Yankees will forget how to hit in the playoffs and lose to an inferior team. That Yankees team might have even been better than this team. Yes, getting Gordon in the bullpen helped a lot, and Rodriguez and Sheffield have helped the lineup. But Giambi isn't the same without the juice, and their rotation is a lot weaker. Clemens and Pettite were there best starters once the playoffs started, and they are gone. Now you got Vasquez, a guy who has never been close to a playoff game, and Brown, who can never stay healthy. Boston and the Yankees also depend heavily on righthanded powerhitters so I guess by that same logic they are going to suck. If that's the case, the Cubs are screwed.

The Twins had a much easier schedule in the second half last year. We played them early in October, got swept at the dome, and were pretty much done. They played Detroit like 9 times in the last two weeks and won at least 7 of them. They don't get that kind of easy finish this year. Plus, we didn't have Freddy last year, we had that fat toad Colon, who was very inconsistent. We are not dead in the playoffs. Vasquez, Hudson, Mulder, and Schilling will be problems, but we wouldn't face all of them in one series. We might face Schilling twice in a 5 game series, but we also only get Pedro once probably, and he would likely be gone by the 6th no matter how well he is pitching. Then the other two games would likely be against 2 of their other 3 starters, who are god awful. The Yankees have Vasquez who we would also face twice, but Brown is hurting. He was pitching about as well as Buehrle and Loaiza before that. We faced Mussina twice, and he allowed 6 runs in those two starts. Good but not great. Moose's ERA is actually higher than Garland's right now. The rest of the Yankees rotation is junk. As for the A's, Zito and Redman might be able to come up with decent starts, but the A's offense and bullpen are pretty weak. Besides, we have hit some decent pitchers this year. Radke got nailed last time, and he had one of the better ERA's in the AL. Mulder did well, but we would have won if not for Koch. We beat Zambrano with Diaz on the mound. Anything can happen in a short series, so don't claim we are dead before anyone even clinches the playoffs.

Sorry, wrong thread. This one was about Maggs. My comments stand though.

My final comments. Guardado, which was the original post topic, would be a great move that would really help us out. It wouldn't kill us financially, and it probably wouldn't cost a ton in prospects. I am all for this deal unless it involves Anderson, that guy just looks too good right now. The Ortiz and Jones deal blows. Jones offers nothing to our offense, won't help our defense a whole lot(maybe a couple of catches per week), and Ortiz isn't really an upgrade over our top 3. Keep Maggs because our offense clearly could use a hitter of his caliber. I still want to keep him, because there aren't a whole lot of guys that can produce like he does. I would take one last shot to resign him in the offseason, and then if he goes, invest that money in pitching. Unless they get some young stud that can help for the next few years, I would hang on to Maggs, and see what happens.

Look at what has happened since A-Rod signed his monster deal. Only one player has gotten even close to a $15 mil deal, and that was Vlad. Maggs ain't Vlad. Plus the knee injury, no matter how minor, will slow down some people from signing that check. Even Tejada didn't get that money, and he was completely healthy and only one year removed from an MVP. Maggs will probably fall somewhere between what Tejada got, which was $12 mil a year for 6 years and heavily backloaded, and what Vlad got. 30 year old outfielders don't get 5 year $15 million deals. Beltran will get a huge deal around $15 mil, but Maggs and Nomar are going to be pretty pissed off when they don't get as much as they thought. Look at what happened to I-Rod and Maddux last year. Even Vlad has to wait a long time before he got what he wanted. The Yankees are probably the only team that can afford to sign him without signifcantly hurting their teams' financial position, and they already have Sheffield(please stop saying Matsui in center. They'll just sign Beltran).

Just what we need in our offense, another overpaid guy hitting .250 that strikes out too much. Jones better not be here. We don't need to spend $13 mil to get a #6 hitter. We could get someone similar for considerably less. Ortiz is basically the same player as Freddy and Buehrle and Loaiza, only he gets to face a pitcher and plays in a pitchers' park. That is not what we need. Basically, getting Maggs back in the lineup is going to have a greater impact than anyone we could add that is not named Randy Johnson. Considering some of the guys that are going to be available, it would be much more advantageous to start with a clean slate and two draft picks then expensive veterans(unless of course we get a young stud along the lines of Ben Sheets, which isn't going to happen).

The Twins will definitely not be laughing at us at the end of the year. They are ahead of us by 1 1/2 games, despite the fact that they have played the 29th strongest schedule in the league. And we have won 6 of the last 7 against them. If you can look at their second half schedule and honestly say that they will come out of that ahead of us, I gotta question your baseball knowledge and faith as a Sox fan. Even without Magglio, we are scoring more runs. Our rotation is quite a bit deeper. Outside of Santana(who is great) and Radke(good, but not against some of the better hitting teams) their rotation is getting shelled. They see an awful lot of playoff teams in the second half, while we see virtually nothing but Detroit, KC, and Cleveland. This is the toughest part of our schedule, and we are still not that far out. We'll be just fine.

We don't have the cash? How are we paying him $14 mil this year then? How did we just sign a pitcher for $27 mil over the next 3 years? I agree that his demands are a little otrageous, but our payroll falls to about $55 million without him. We can do better than that.

I'll agree that it is usually a good thing to spend money. I'm especially happy that Moreno stole that fat toad from us. I don't see a turnaround coming anytime soon. He was coming off his best season when we acquired him, and he had a pretty good year with us. His stuff has suffered significantly since then however. He has always been a power pitcher that relied heavily on his high 90's fastball and had subpar breaking pitches. His fastball has been closer to the low 90's this year, and he has been getting rocked because he doesn't have the greatest breaking stuff. Think Billy Koch before we realized he sucked.

I doubt it will take anymore than Maggs to get Ortiz and Jones. Ortiz is a free agent at the end of the year, and Jones has a terrible contract. They would probably even give us some cash to offset Jones' salary. The only reason they want to make this deal is so they can spin Ordonez off to someone else for real prospects, which they can't get for Jones, while lowering their payroll. However, they would only do this if they fall off. Why would a team making a run trade their best starter who has been on fire recently? I hate this deal anyways. Ortiz would get rocked playing in the AL in our park, and Jones has a brutal contract that would stop us from potentially signing another pitcher in the offseason. I'd much rather hang on to him, keep him for the playoff run, and try to sign him in the offseason. If he goes, you get some picks and suddenly have a lot of money to work with that would be gone if we got Jones.

I'm not so sure Moreno is doing that great a job. The Guerrero signing was a brilliant move, and the Guillen move looks good too. But getting Escobar and Colon sure aren't looking so hot. He's gonna have a lot of money locked up in Colon. He's a new owner that is throwing a lot of money around, which isn't a good sign. How long before they end up like Arizona, who is horribly in debt? I realize Anaheim has better attendance than Arizona, but I can't imagine he can make huge deals and keep the prices down. Agents occasionally talk about finding the one fool in the free agent market that will pay more for their client than they are worth. Moreno seems to be the new one, since Tom Hicks finally wised up after grossly overpaying for Park and A-Rod. We'll see hom Anahiem looks in 5 years.

Why would the Yankees sign Mags, play him in left and move Matsui to center when they could spend a little more and put Beltran there? Doesn't make much sense, does it? More likely he would go to the Padres, Mets, Dodgers, Orioles or Cubs, but I highly doubt any of those teams are going to shell out $15 mil for anyone. That would put the Dodgers(who need to resign Perez bad), Mets(need a lot of help, could keep Hidalgo), and Cubs(have a lot of other players they need to pay in the near future) over the luxary tax, which is an evil and ominous term outside of the Bronx. The Padres and Orioles would still be under, but they would be much more likely to spend on pitching. The Padres have a bunch of money invested in Giles, Nevin, and Klesko, and still have Nady. Not all of them can play in the outfield. The Orioles also need a pitcher, and signed heavily backloaded deals. Think about this, Tejada signed a 6 year deal for an average of $12 mil a year, but is making less than $5 mil this year. Ouch!

I would be shocked if they deal him. They need that stick. It would look terrible if you trade your best hitter during a playoff run, unless you get someone like Randy Johnson(which wouldn't make sense, why would they want a rent a player when they are in last?). I don't think the talks are necessarily DONE, and even if they are for the season, they can talk in the offseason. If they make a playoff run, I wouldn't be surprised if they settled things. Reinsdorf seems to spend money when they find someone that will help the team. They signed Albert Belle and made him one of the highest paid players in baseball. They offered Colon a sizeable deal, Moreno just coughed up a little bit more. Even if he hits free agency, I don't think he is necessarily gone(unless they piss him off between now and then). I doubt that he will get Vlad money, and it seems like a lot of teams are trying to sign shorter deals, especially for older players and pitchers. I would not be surprised if the biggest offer he gets is 4 years $48 mil. I got a feeling that Maggs and Nomar are going to be pretty upset this offseason when they don't get $15 mil a year. Vladimir Guerrero, one of the best hitters in baseball, only got an offer in that neighborhood from two teams. What hope do these two guys have?

Maybe. I'd rather have Beltran than Maggs and Loaiza. That's $18 mil on our books for this year.

You's have to be nuts to trade him right now, especially while he is still hurt. You're not going to get anywhere near value for him. They need his bat back in the lineup, especially in the playoffs. Unless you get a really good starter(Ortiz does not qualify) you keep him here and try to resume talks in the offseason. Then if he goes, you get some picks and have $14 mil to spend on getting a pitcher. I'd rather do that than get stuck with someone's massive contract(ie Jones).

Brown is hurt, and isn't doing that great. His ERA is about 4.15, which is higher than both Buehrle and Garcia, and Mussina is doing even worse. In case you haven't noticed, Pedro has been very inconsistent and has no stamina. Schilling is pitching great, but he has an ankle problem that may slow him down or put him on the DL later. The rest of their rotation is god awful. The only team that We should really worry about rotationwise is the A's. Hudson and Mulder are something, and their other starters aren't all bad either. But their lineup is weak and their pen isn't much better. Assuming Maggs comes back 100% to help the offense(trading him would be pretty dumb at this point), they should be fine with Garcia and Buehrle one and two, with Loaiza and Garland splitting the other starts, especially if you can shift Marte and Shingo to the 7th and 8th, which would help greatly in shortening a game. I wouldn't sell off the future for anyone short of a dominant starter, and there aren't a whole lot out there and they will cost a ton. By the way, Ortiz does not qualify as a dominant starter.