ZoomSlowik

:fthecubs I think they need to make it a requirement to enter at Wrigley Field that you must be able to name at least 5 players on the team. I bet that after Wood, Prior, and Sosa many of them would start reaching, especially if they started drinking early(try finding a Cub fan that doesn't ). My guess is they would be fighting to outdraw the Expos.

Looks like speculation to me... I find it hard to believe that Valentin would make it. Jeter got voted in, and Young and Guillen are probably next choices. My guess is Paulie or Frank for sure, possibly Garcia or Buehrle if they want another starter, and Shingo for a longshot if they want a reliever. Really tough for the managers when you have to start the guys that win the fan balloting and have to pick one guy from every team. It's a joke that Griffey and Sosa will start over Beltran and Berkman.

The Sox aren't allowing that many more homeruns than the other contenders. Most of them are between 80 and 90, the Sox are at 101. That's bound to go down with Garcia in the rotation and Diaz/Rauch eventually dropping out. And Koch is gone, so that shaves a few off too.

There's a major difference between Jones and Maggs right now. Jones is hitting about .250 with 12 homers, and before Maggs got hurt He was batting .311 with 8 homers, in much fewer games. We can finally see that Jones isn't that great a hitter without the lineup around him. Guys like Bonds, Vlad, and Maggs can produce in any lineup(Yes, I know those other two are better hitters than Maggs, but I still believe this fact). Last year in the stretch where everyone sucked Maggs was about the only one hitting. And Jones isn't the defensive superstar he used to be. Hunter and Beltran are definitely much better, and Pierre and Cameron are probably better now. I don't think it is worth it for a guy that might make 2-3 more catches a week and might cause chemistry problems, and certainly not worth losing Maggs' bat.

Forget the Ortiz crap. First off, he is a medicore pitcher that is doing well in a pitcher's park in the National League. Between facing about two more real batters (pitcher and most 8th hitters in the NL are scrubs) and moving to one of the better hitters' parks in the league, he would suck. Second, the Braves are only 2 1/2 out, so they are not going to give up their 1st starter and their starting CF for prospects. I doubt they would even do it for Maggs, it would hurt their team too much. You know who else is 2 1/2 out? The Cubbies. Why don't we try to get Prior and Patterson while we're at it?

Screw Ortiz and Jones. Both are overrated and overpaid. Keep Maggs for the rest of the year. They're going to need his bat. Doesn't make much sense to trade your best hitter when you're making a playoff push, does it? And who has the best staff going into the playoffs means little. It's all a crap shoot. Did the Cubs win it all? No. How many rings do the A's have? None. Out of 12 playoff appearances, why do the Braves have one ring? I dare you to name two starters for the Angels team that won. You need to be able to score runs in the playoffs, no matter who starts. Besides, I would much rather take a run at guys like Clement, Pavano, Perez, or Radke in the offseason than be stuck with Jones' albatross of a deal. Or we could resign Garcia, or sign Ortiz in the offseason without giving up any prospects or our star hitter to get him.

:fthecubs On a mission my ass. There will be no sweep. We hit Maddux pretty hard last time, and not much has changed. Even if Diaz gets absolutely rocked, there's no way he can let up enough runs to affect Sunday's game, where they are screwed. Rusch is returning to his normal useless self, and I think everyone knows it but the Cubs and their fans. Buehrle vs Rusch will be a slaughter in our favor, Twins will lose at least 1 of 2 remaining with DBacks(Randy), Sox will still be in first after the series.

I didn't say Mussina was the same as Garland, I said he is performing about the same as Garland. Clearly Mussina is a bigger name and has a better history, and having a choice between the two for the rest of the season I would take Mussina. However, he is not having the greatest year, he isn't getting any younger, and the Yankees are depending on him heavily, especially with Brown hurting. I would rather face him than a lot of pitchers if I had the choice.

Yes, there is. The Yankees have not won the series for the last few years, and they still have some problems on this team. Outside of Vasquez, their rotation is one big question mark. Theoretically Brown is good when he is healthy, but that never happens. Even when he was healthy his ERA was about 4.20, good but not exactly stellar. Mussina is starting to show signs of wear. Last time I looked, his ERA was about the same as John Garland's, who is our 4th starter. Not exactly what you want in the playoffs. Plus if any of their starters get knocked out early, they have real problems getting to Gordon or Rivera.

I agree with you Sox. That's why we can't make the Atlanta trade with Maggs. We'll really need him in the playoffs. If he goes, oh well, more money to spend signing pitchers. I'd rather have $14 mil to work with than that overrated overpaid oaf Jones.

Just a followup, I'm not sure this switch alone would have saved the game. Loaiza was getting hit pretty hard, and they didn't do much against Zambrano. I just don't want to see Gload cost us any games we should win with his woeful fielding. It will be a mute point once Maggs comes back. Get well soon Maggs!

I agree to some extent. Ross has shown in the Cubs games that he shouldn't be in right. I'm not sure why he started playing there, I thought he played 1st exclusively at Charlotte. I don't ever want to see him in right. This was especially painful because Rowand seems to be a better hitter and fielder, and that Ozzie just wanted to get another lefty in the lineup.

The Sox really get killed by interleague play. Most teams in the AL don't have such a tough decision, their DH/1B doesn't create as much of a dilema. All the more reason to forget the Maggs trade talk, they're going to need him to strengthen their lineup in NL parks.

Please Don't mention Joe Carter again. He was terrible. Two classic moments: I forgot who he was talking to, but he asked,"Have you talked to Pete Rozell recently?" and the guy responds, "Well, he's been dead for 5 years, so no." :dips*** The other when he was determining how close the plays at first were based on the replays, which produced classic lines like, "He was out by a good two seconds!"

I've got nothing against Esteban, but I agree with some of your statements. If it's him or Garcia, that's a no-brainer. If it's him or Maggs, it's a no-brainer. He's a good #4 or an okay #3. I'd much rather take that $8-10 mil and take a run at guys that could potentially be there like Clement, Pavano, or Perez.

If I'm Maggs, I'm signing if it is even close to what I am looking for. I highly doubt he is going to get many(if any) sizeable 5 year offers when you consider that he is 30 and has had knee surgery this season. I bet Vlad expected to get more money last year, but his back slowed some interest, even though he is younger. Much as I love Mags, he isn't in the same league as Vlad, and he got 5 years $70 mil. I-Rod had the same problems.

The point is with the run support we have been getting we don't need to get Ortiz. If you are scoring 6 runs a game, does it matter if you let up 3 or 4? Ortiz would basically give us the exact same thing as Buehrle and Loaiza. Before last night's start there was about a .5 difference in the ERA of Buehrle and Ortiz, and s little less between Loaiza and Ortiz. That means that for every 18 innings pitched, Ortiz allows 1 fewer run. Is it worth it for roughly one run every three starts? Not in my book. If we picked up someone of the Randy Johnson stature who is a dominant pitcher with playoff experience, that would be one thing, but he isn't. I would rather have our #3 hitter back then pick up a guy that is basically the same as what we have. He's not a strikeout pitcher and walks a lot of guys, that's not what you need. We already have two guys that can do that.

They would make us take Jones with Ortiz, and it isn't worth it. Ortiz was the worst 21 game winner ever last year. He got a ridiculous amount of run support. He was okay. He really sucked in the playoffs, I'm pretty sure his career playoff ERA is over 5. He walks way to many guys, and his ERA is bound to go up. First, he is moving from what is often considered a pitchers' park to one of the better hitters' park. Second, he is moving from the NL to the AL, meaning he has to face a real hitter instead of the pitcher, and has to face better lineups in general. Anyone remember Chan Ho Park? He was an All-Star on the Dodgers, took the money in Texas and sucked for the last few years. Ortiz is going to take the same route. Besides, do we really need to give up Maggs for a #4 starter and a #6 hitter?

I do not want Jones on this team, especially not if we are going to give up anything valuable. He may be a good defensive centerfielder, but how much of a difference would he really make over Rowand? maybe 3 catches a week, tops? Plus he is hitting .250 and his power isn't so hot. Besides he is notorious for being a cancer to the team and taking plays off. If we give up Mags, Sox fans and the media will never forgive us for it. Eventually we are going to need Maggs' bat, our current guys won't hit like this forever. Why would we trade our best player when we are trying to win a series?

I thought he was pitching well. I didn't have too much of a problem with the other two homers, he almost had to lay that one in there to Mauer, and Koskie hit a low fastball on the outer half. Things just didn't go his way in the 5th. The hit LeCroy got was pure luck. It was a nasty curve on the outer half out of the zone, and he just poked the bat out there and got lucky. Mauer did the same thing on a fastball away the next hitter, and Jose booted it trying to get the double play. I didn't think the pitch he threw to Guzman was that bad a pitch. Yes, it was a slider higher than he wanted it, but that ball looked like it might have hit Guzman in the arm if he didn't swing. He got around on it really well. Overall, I thought nice start, would have been great if things have gone his way in the 5th. That seems to happen to Sox pitchers a lot recently, like Garland against the Cubs and Loaiza against Cleveland. All of them dominated through 4 and couldn't pitch over some trouble in the 5th.

I lied. One last comment. Jones is not even close to the best defensive centerfielder anymore. Talk to anyone and they'll tell you Torri Hunter. Most of them will probably give you Beltran too, and I believe Juan Pierre beat him out for the Gold Glove last year. If he gets off his ass and stops loafing he might fit in with this group, and his knees have been bothering him a bit. As for the comment that they can afford him because they are offering that kind of contract to Maggs, there's a slight problem there. If they resigned Mags, he would clearly be there #3 hitter for the next few years. With him in the lineup, you're not as worried if Frank either has an off year again or decides to retire, or if Konerko or Lee don't hit. With Jones on the roster, it's an issue. He's a much better fit as a #6 hitter. If things don't go right, you gotta move him up, which will hurt their O because he is a one dimensional hitter. He's not a very good tablesetter or a clutch hitter. His average with 2 outs with runners in scoring position is .206, and his close/late average is .216. Current production aside, they're eventually going to need Maggs' offense. As for the whole hitters' park thing, it only started getting ridiculous this year, so you don't have a whole lot of basis for comparison. Konerko just had a terrible year last year and started straightening it out late, so I don't think you could credit his output to the park, and as I said, Lee is hitting less and Uribe is hitting better than he did at Coors, the best hitters' park in the league. Even if it did/does have a major effect on a player's production, it only could potentially affect half the games, and pitching matchups and slumps are going to eliminate a good number of those. And no matter how good a hitters' park it is, a .270 hitter having his worst year to date in average and power isn't going to suddenly hit over .300 with 40 homers. Now I'm done.

You know what. I tried to bring in statistical backing. I tried explaining how bad it would hurt us in terms of money. And guys do collapse at various points in their career. When did Valenzueza and Gooden crap out? How are Boone and Giambi doing this year? Past production has little impact on what he is doing now. Yes, I would look at past performance if I was deciding between two similar players, but you can't expect guys to suddenly revert to old form for no reason. If you look at his numbers, he clearly peaked about 5 years ago. He hasn't come close to reproducing that statline since then. Personally, I'm going to trust the experts and people who see him play everyday when they say that he is useless. This is the last time you will see me post on this topic. Terrible trade, would kill the organization for the next two years. You better pray the Cell adds about 50 BA points and 10 homeruns, because if you sign him, he just might be your #3 hitter by the time the contract is up.

A comparison at the plate between Maggs and Jones the last 3 full seasons... Jones 2003 101 runs 36 homers 116 RBI .277 BA .338 OBP 2002 91 runs 35 HR 94 RBI .264 BA .366 OBP 2001 104 runs 34 HR 104 RBI .251 BA .312 OBP Mags 2003 95 runs 29 HR 99 RBI .317 BA .380 OBP 2002 116 runs 38 HR 135 RBI .320 BA .381 OBP 2001 97 runs 31 HR 113 RBI .305 BA .382 OBP Notice the categories that are not as dependent on the lineup(although Maggs did crush him across the board in 02, this is not my main point). In batting average and on base percentage, he is much weaker than Mags. These arguably the two most important numbers when evaluating a hitter. If the lineup had started hitting before July in 01 and 03, Mags surely would have outperformed Jones in the other categories too. So I ask again, why do we want to invest so much money in a career .267 hitter that his team is desperate to get rid of? If we were going to trade Mags, wouldn't it make a lot more sense to trade him for some studs, such as Randy Johnson, or Guillermo Mota and Odalis Perez? Just because it is the best rumored deal doesn't make it or good one or mean that we should do it.

How are Jones' RBI numbers going to soar? He had 116 batting behind arguably the best first 4 hitters in the league last year! Everyone ahead of himhead of him batted at least .290, and Furcal and Giles can really run. He wouldn't have that here. He'd be batting behind a bunch of slow sluggers. And for anyone thinking he's going to steal bases, you got another thing coming. It's been a long time since he hit double digits. Listen to virtually any expert or the people in Atlanta, and they have basically determined that he's done. They are so desperate to get rid of his contract that apparently they won't deal Ortiz without him. And to the best of my knowledge, he didn't when a GG last year. Also, I am sick about hearing about park factors. How many did we think Lee would hit with the new setup? He's got 6. Why has Uribe crushed his career high after he left Coors? Look at Jones' splits for the last three years, and it hasn't made much difference. He's batting 4 points higher at home and has 5 more homers on the road. Most of these stats are just a statistical anomally. There are too many variables, suck as who is pitching and who has a good game when. Jones is really sucking this year. Look at who is ranked just above and below him on the Yahoo! Fantasy Ratings, which are based on who is producing the most at the plate. He's ranked right between Rondell White and Jody Garrett. Stop looking at past numbers and look at what he is doing now. Acquiring Jones would destroy our payroll for the next 2+ years, all for a 5th starter and a #6 hitter batting that is slipping.

First off, Jones had 116 RBI last year, which is from ESPN. Second, he had one more run then Giles, and had a much lower BA. And Giles was hitting much better this year before he got hurt. As for his lack of protection this year, isn't that a true measure of how good a hitter really is? Does it matter what kind of lineup guys like Guerrero or Bonds are in? I think it's obvious that it doesn't. The point is I see no real reason to get him for the rest of the year and another two. He's making 13 million a year, and would probably bat 6th(assuming we trade Mags) behind Thomas, Lee, and Konerko, and possibly Valentin if he is still around. Should Jones really be our highest paid player? Hell no! If we make this trade, we're obviously admitting Mags is gone, but so is Freddy, because we will have less to work with. You could forget about signing any free agents too. If you are going to sign a $13 million player, he better be a franchise player that the team can build around. He isn't even the best hitter named Jones on his team. They are better off just keeping Maggs, who is much better as a hitter. Even if he goes, you get the draft picks and then you have $14 mill to work with. Then you can resign Freddy or sign any number of potential free agents. I would have no problem with acquiring Jones if he made about $7 mil, but he makes almost twice that. He's just not the kind of player you want for that kind of money.