ZoomSlowik

Um, not really. Benson almost immediately becomes a 4.5 ERA guy when he moves to the AL. Think Chan Ho Park. The Cubs would actually have 3 guys better than that, and that's not counting Prior and Wood, since they are both hurting. Oakland would still have a better top 3 because Garcia and Buehrle do not equal Hudson and Mulder(plus I would rather have Zito than Benson). The Marlins staff is also still better. Even with Beckett still having blister problems and Burnett not his old self after Tommy John surgery, Pavano, Penny and Willis is still solid. The Yankees have a better staff if Brown comes back and Mussina figures thing out, but I don't think either are that likely. Boston would be close, since Schilling and Pedro probably beat out our top 2(the other guy kind of sucks though). Benson is not a # 1 type starter that is going to alter a playoff series. For all the talk about is stuff, his k's per 9 innings is lower than Garica and Buehrle, and is comparable to Loaiza, and that's factoring in the pitchers. I think anyone(especially AL teams) that give that much for him will be sorely disappointed.

I got a bad feeling about Benson. I want nothing to do with him. His ERA is 4.13 and a WHIP of 1.35. Those are both pretty high for a guy who is supposed to put a contender over the top. Plus those are sure to go up for one major reason: moving from the NL to the AL-no more pitcher for the easy out and better all around lineups. If we get him it would be even worse because we play in a good hitters park. I just have visions of Todd Ritchie- mediocre NL pitcher moving to the AL and getting crushed. I'd certainly not give up a major leaguer/major league ready player and a top prospect to get him. I almost want to see him go to the Twins, they'd lose some of their talented young hitters, they still don't have the greatest rotation, and they probably wouldn't resign him. They got a lot of players that are going to be due for free agency/arbitration at the end of the year, so I doubt they would make any kind of commitment in talent or money.

Actually, we didn't face Brown this year(at least according to ESPN, who I normally trust on statistical matters). He had an ERA of 4.13(good but not stellar) before getting hurt in early June and hasn't pitched since, and Mussina has an ERA of 5.20 on the year. That makes me think there are guys we should be much more worried about. Even Vasquez's ERA is now over 4. They desperately need another starter.

Halladay is resting his shoulder for 4-6 weeks because of soreness, so that doesn't seem likely. Also not so sure about Glavine, that division is as mediocre as ours so the Mets will probably still be in it around the deadline. I still like the Pavano idea, but I don't know what we'd have to give up or if he will even be available.

Well put, and I agree. If we had another stud lefty or two Marte might close, but our only other lefty is Cotts and our other options are in the minors. Besides, one could argue Garland had as much effect on the lose as Marte. If he gets a double play ball instead of serving up a homer to Mathews it's a totally different game. Do we really have to rip on one of our most effective pitchers?

We played in a great hitters park the last two games against two terrible pitchers. 4 runs last night isn't all that impressive. Besides, those are two games in a month long crapathon. The Pirates won't sign ANYBODY long term. They traded Aramis because he was due to make 6 mil. They let Giles go while he was still cheap. There is no way they will sign anyone for what Maggs is making. Besides that, Maggs doesn't have any name appeal. Outside of Chicago very few fans consider him to be a star. As for Loaiza, he has virtually no value right now. Why would anyone want a guy whose contract expires at the end of the season and has an ERA approaching 5? At a time when we are trying to make a run for the playoffs, I find it doubtful that we would deal our best player. The only way I would do that is if it would bring us RJ(not likely that they would really want him), or the Dodgers for Perez and/or Mota with prospects. Otherwise I would rather keep him for the rest of the year, and if he walks he walks. Then we get the picks and suddenly have a ton of money to spend in the offseason. Then we would have the chance to sign guys like Pavano, Clement, or Glaus. If Maggs stays, then we have our #3 hitter and RF. Either way works, but if we deal Maggs we don't get the picks and then get stuck with someone's salary, which would seriously hurt our chances for offseason impact moves.

I highly doubt Ordonez will go anywhere. The trade you propose is pretty ludicrous. I would assume by starting pitcher you mean Benson? Why would they deal those two guys for two free agents at the end of the year when they aren't going anywhere? They can actually get decent prospects for Benson, and while they are desperate to lose Kendall's salary, the want to get something for him. Plus I HIGHLY doubt Ordonez is going anywhere. He's still due a bunch of money for the rest of the year, he's had a knee surgery this year and apparently tweaked it yesterday, it doesn't seem like he is ready to play the field yet, and he isn't hitting that well since he came back. All of those thing drop his potential trade value. And why would we deal our #3 hitter when our O has been struggling recently?

You've got two men on with no outs and your best RBI guy in that day's lineup at the plate. Even if he gets the bunt down, Gload would have had to hit something with authority(when does that ever happen?) or Rowand would need a hit. And the way PK runs and bunts, there was a decent chance that he bunts into a double play. If he got a hit we'd all say great move. Chill out.

Um, even if we lose both games in Cleveland, we still have a 1 1/2 game lead on them. With their pen you never know what will happen, and we have Buehrle and Garcia pitching. Chill out guys.

Do you REALLY think we would have outbid teams like the Yankees in the offseason? No way. We had a major advantage in acquiring him during the season because we could give up talent. In the offseason it's all money. Teams like the Yanks, Red Sox, Baltimore, and Texas all have money and a need for pitchers. All we need is one of them to go nuts in the offseason and we don't get Freddy. This way we got him and locked him up for another 3 years.

That sounds smart, trade our #3 hitter when our offense has been struggling. No way we should deal Maggs. I'm not sure they would do it anyways, since Maggs is only signed through this year, the knee is going to be an issue, and he hasn't been hitting that well since he got back. Because of that I'm not sure how much value he has. They'd have to get a monster deal. Consider that they wouldn't give him up for Beltran. No way we would get him for just Borchard and prospects.

It's not as easy as saying "I'm going to get a single instead of hitting a home run." Tough pitchers are tough for a reason, they don't give up a whole lot of anything. Your basic goal is to hit the ball hard. That's pretty much necessary for a homer or a single. It isn't that easy to do when a pitch is coming at you around 90 MPH. I don't know how you can say for a fact that someone is swinging for the fences on every pitch. All you need to do is miss the ball or get under it a little bit and you get the results you are talking about, whether you are swinging for a homer or not.

I highly doubt they would deal him while they are in first place, especially not for anything less than a productive major league player. Their pen loses a TON of punch if he is traded. It's basically the Eric Gagne show then, while with Gagne and Mota is it virtually a 7 inning game. Plus, they have better options to deal while they are in contention, specifically Edwin Jackson and Greg Miller, who are two of the best pitching prospects out there(I think Jackson is hurt, though I am not sure since I don't follow other teams' minor league systems that well). It is the same situation with Pavano. The Marlins desperately need another stick, and seem to need some bullpen help(they are depending on Koch :puke ), but trading Pavano would basically kill their season. Beckett keeps going on the DL, and hasn't pitched very consistently when healthy, Burnett seems to be a little off while he is recovering from surgery, and Penny and Willis have had a few rough starts recently. They would have a tough time increasing their chances of winning in the playoffs if they dealt their most consistent starter. These situations point out why we should wait until the deadline before speculating or trading off more talent. If either of these teams are in or near first place, it is much more likely that they would deal younger less important players or prospects than their established stars. We can't really tell who is going to be selling off crucial players before the deadline or who is going to be trying to add players.

I'm referring to the Mota reports, in fact I even said Mota in the last one. The Dodgers are in first. That what I was referring to for a while. I guess I should get back on topic. I don't want Benitez that bad, I think it would screw with our chemistry in the pen, that's why some people brought up Mota. Back to Pavano. They wouldn't really want Rowand because of Pierre. They'd probably love Lee, but that is too much for a guy who is a free agent at the end of the year. For Florida I'm not really sure what they would want. Rowand and Anderson are our best options for trades, but I believe Pierre is there for a while. I'm not really sure what else we would have to trade. I'm sure if he were to become available, just about every contender would jump all over it, and we'd get outbid rather easily.

I think you misunderstood everyone. Nowhere did anyone say Lee AND Rowand AND prospects. The comment was Lee OR Rowand and prospects. A lot of teams would give up a ton for a solid reliever. Look at Oakland. They gave up Teahan, their stud 3B prospect and Wood, a solid starting pitcher for Dotel, who is nowhere near as good as Mota right now. If he became available the Sox would get a break because the Yankees, Red Sox, and Angels don't really need him, and I believe the only stud prospect the A's have left is Blanton, who is probably untouchable(not 100% sure on the last two points). That would basically limit it to Texas(bigger problem at SP), the contenders in the NL east, and St. Louis or the Cubs. Rowand and Anderson would probably be in the right range, or Rowand and someone along Diaz and mid level guy. I highly doubt they would give him up with Borchard or Anderson as the centerpiece. Anyway, this is kind of moot right now because he is a key part of their team and they are currently in 1st place with a 2.5 game lead.

Let's see, his ERA is under 2 for the second straight year, his batting average against is right around .220, and he is making less than $2 mil right now. I think they can ask for virtually anything they want. I'm sure if he becomes available someone like the Cardinals would give up whatever prospects they have. Maybe Lee would be a little much, but Rowand is possible. I'd strongly consider it depending on what other prospects we give up. I don't think I'd do it if they wanted us to add Anderson, but some lesser guys sounds good. I know it's hurt our lineup and we'd have to find a way to get by in center, but it would give us a monster bullpen. As I said, the Dodgers are in first right now, so I doubt he is going anywhere unless they freefall.

I agree that the guys we gave up don't have much value. In both of our trades we made this year, I was kind of shocked when I heard the names, but when you look at what they have done it makes sense. Olivo is a catcher that is hitting around .260 in his best year(more than 20 points better than his previous best), and had a reputation for not calling a good game. He does have a cannon for an arm and is pretty good at blocking balls, but those things don't have a ton of value on our team. Some people say we gave up a stud young catcher, but he is already 26. That means you gotta start worrying about whether or not he can still play in about 4 or 5 years. Reed is a solid prospect, but seems to have a much lower ceiling than a lot of players. He had a phenomenal year last year, but was only doing okay this year. It seems to me they dealt him while he still had a ton of trade value. Morse is a prospect with a ton of potential, but he is having his first good year, and it appears he will not play SS in the pros. It seems like a pretty good deal for a 27 year old starter that is having a great year and has very good stuff. As for the Everett deal, Rauch and Majewski are both about 26 and still haven't done anything in the majors. They are really running out of time to still be considered prospects. Borchard falls into this category too. When you look at it, we don't have a whole lot of highly regarded prospects left. Our best is probably Anderson at this point, and not a whole lot else in AA or AAA. I'm not sure where we are going to find much else to make trades with.

Interesting, I hadn't seen that. I guess I stand corrected. If we can find a way to get him, that would be a slam dunk. They aren't going to give him away though, I'm sure they're going to make some ridiculous demands like Lee or Rowand and prospects. Pavano isn't that young, he's 28. I'd still love to have him. I'd give up all of the Charlotte roster, and most of the Barons if we could get both of those guys. I still doubt they would deal him when they are in contention.

Since when are we depending on Uribe to "carry the team"? As someone said, if he can hit .280, no matter where he is in the order, that will work. We don't need him to be our #3 hitter doing all the work, we have other guys to do that. Once Maggs gets back to being his old self, our offense will be much better. Rowand and Lee are hitting pretty well recently, and if you put a full strength Maggs between them with Paulie, Everett, and Valentin after that, we'll produce runs. And if we throw Uribe or Harris getting on base at the top, that's a not just a good offense, that's a dominant one. Every offense goes through slumps, especially when your best hitter is recovering from injury and your next best hitter is out. We're going through it now, the Yankees got it out of the way in April. Uribe hitting again would help, but we aren't done if he doesn't.

Mota isn't going anywhere. If they wouldn't give him up for Beltran, I doubt there is any chance we would get him(he was rumored to be part of a Maggs deal, but that was preseason). Pavano would be awesome, but he won't come cheap. If we could sign him long term, that might give us a better top 3 than the A's for the next few years. I'm not sure what it would take, I'm sure it would start with Borchard, and add some other top prospects like Anderson/Sweeney, or maybe Munoz/Diaz(don't think these guys have a ton of value though). It seems like they need position players a lot more than pitchers. If he became available I would imagine Anaheim and Texas would be all over him, meaning we'd be screwed, because they have a lot more ammo. As for the pen, I think Benitez would actually cause some problems if we got him. Shingo is dominating as a closer right now, so it seems like if we added another top of the line closer, we would either piss off the new guy by making him a setup guy, put Shingo back in setup and aggravate him and thus remove that awesome entrance, or use the dreaded closer by committee. Someone like Mota would be awesome, but he won't be dealt. Not sure who we could get that would be along those lines.

I don't know, what about Fernando Valenzueza and Mark Fidrich(sorry if I spelled them wrong)? I don't have their stats in front of me, but I remember they were both overnight sensations that were great for a year or two and then faded back into obscurity.

Come on! We're spoiled by a team that is actually competing. Take a look at the lineups of Montreal, KC, Arizona, or teams like that. Crede might bat 5 on some of these teams.

Always nice when you can take a giant dump on the field against a good team and watch your rival do the same thing against a much weaker team. Take a look at the Royals roster right now. It looks like they are a Mike Sweeney injury away from being a AAA team. We beat a Seattle team that at least has SOME talent(especially when Piniero and Moyer were on the hill), so I think even in this funk we can get by some teams. We got Texas coming up with some poor pitchers going, and while we face Lee and Sabathia in Cleveland, they get Garcia and Buehrle. I think we can definitely get 3 of 4, hopefully that will help us get back on track.

What does that tell you about the way Minnesota is playing? They're playing at least as bad as we are, probably worse.

When he has only allowed one run through 5 and has a 2 run lead, I would like to see him get through the sixth without losing it. Garcia and Buehrle seem fine, and Garland has been decent recently. I'd like to see Loaiza get back to the point where he can get at least two good starts out of 5 with another okay one, but he has been rocked pretty hard. I'm not as worried about Shoney since the only way he sees the field in the playoffs is out of the pen, but he needs to be able to get a few good starts while our offense is a little off.