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While I agree with that in general, Frank and/or Maggs(not sure who was playing at the time) were still in the lineup. I still think we match up pretty well with them. The only place I definitely give them an edge is on defense. Santana is awesome and on fire, and Radke is decent, but the rest of their rotation doesn't offer much. Freddy and Buehrle are pretty solid pitchers that didn't pitch so hot, and Garland and Loaiza at least keep us in the game. Even with Benson I think it's about a draw. Our offense has a lot more weapons too. Even without Frank and Maggs, Lee and Rowand(also didn't play today, better sign for O) are hitting well, and Konerko and Everett can do some damage. They're better at manufacturing runs because they have to. All we need is someone besides Rowand and our middle 3 to hit and we should seriously outperform them. Our pens seem to be pretty even, we both use 2 guys most of the time that are effective and not much else. It just seems like some series we forget how to play when we play them. Also, please, don't anyone come up with a "this is our year and we need to go for it, otherwise this team is dead to me" statement. I've seen a bunch of these already and I think this thread is going there. It stopped being "our year" when Maggs went back on the DL. We still can fight out a playoff spot with the guys we have, and we'll be in awesome shape for next season if we can resign Maggs. Just relax, and get ready for the next game.

I'll agree this is ugly. The Twins outpitched us the first two, and we handed them this game on a silver platter. But they are still far from done. With the upcoming schedule all we need to do is win the series against some of these weaker teams like they should, and we will likely gain ground on the Twins because of their wicked schedule. Plus we still have I think 6 games against them. I know this sounds stupid, but I thought a couple things went well today. First, I thought Loaiza turned in a decent start for once. If Crede comes up with that grounder instead of pulling a Bill Buckner, he might have gotten a win. 4 runs in 7 innings is decent, should really have been 3 earned because of Crede. Second, the offense showed signs of life, although we ran out of it. Lee and Konerko didn't do squat, and we still got 4, could have been much more. Let's hope this wasn't a fluke. We have to start playing better, but it's way to early to say we're done. For those of you that want to say we are... :fyou and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

While I admit those were two pathetic plays, I would imagine many of us would be b****ing if we hadn't done anytthing and left them there, claiming we need to play small ball. It all depends on what the hitters do.

I definitely think Cattalanato would be ideal, but I'm not so sure Toronto would be willing to give him up. I can't think of any other guys fitting his profile(other than Kendall but he is a lot more expensive). Anyone got any ideas? I do think we could use another starter, but I don't just want to go out and get another starter for the sake of getting another starter. We need to get someone who would at least be our #3, and there aren't a whole lot of guys out there. Unless we get a stud, I don't really see the point. I think we can get by with these guys. Once we hit the playoffs(yes, I'm still optomistic) we'll see Shoeneweis in the pen, and either Garland or Loaiza will only get a couple of starts. Unless we get someone who will consistently outperform those guys, I don't see the point in giving up talent. Benson is supposedly the best guy that is definitely available, but I don't see him doing that, which is why I brought up the other guys that we may or may not be able to get.

I think they need to do something with Maggs and Frank out, but I don't see a whole lot that would make sense. A lot of the options would cost a ton. I really don't want to see us trade anyone on the ML roster(unless it's someone minor like Jackson or Davis), which would hurt our bargaining ability. I'd love to see us get RJ or Pavano/Penny if the Marlins slipped, but I don't think we have the ammo. I do not want Benson, too many Todd Ritchie similarities. There aren't a whole lot of other SP options, maybe Bautista but Toronto hasn't decided to trade him yet. Beltran would be nice, but again, not enough ammo and he is definitely gone at the end of the year. The only moves I could see happening that I would like are for Kendall, some bullpen help, or a decent on base guy in the outfield that we won't worry about benching when/if Maggs comes back like Cattlanato.

I'm taking a healthy Maggs in this one. We haven't seen a lot of this, except early in the season when the other guys weren't hitting. Maggs is a guy that is pretty much a lock for over .300 and 30 homers(yes, I know he had 29 last year) when he is healthy and is a decent defender(at least better than our other options) in right. Maggs can carry a team when he is healthy. I can't really say any of that about Thomas. He may walk a lot, but I've seen him do it a ton of times with a runner in scoring position where we needed a hit, just to see him forced out a second with little effort in the next at bat. I'm not one to get excited about Thomas' OBP. Unless Lee/Konerko launch one, it isn't going to mean much because he is so damn slow. Plus, look at the splits for clutch hitting, and Magglio has been much better.

I'll admit I haven't seen him play much, but I have read this in several places and heard it from some people that I trust. Unless he comes up with another fantastic season, I'm always going to consider it a fluke, especially considering he's down to .268 with Tacoma now. There are a ton of guys that kill the ball in AA that never make it. Very few prospects make an impact in the majors, and unless this guy is going to hit .310 I don't see him doing that because of his somewhat limited abilities in other areas. I would have liked to have kept him because I think he could be about a .280 hitter with a decent on base percentage, somewhat like Cattalanato, but when we already have two decent outfielders in the majors(and that's assuming Maggs goes) and two other studs that weren't that far behind Reed, he was expendable in my book. As for Caruso, I am referring to Mike Caruso, the stud SS prospect that we got in one of the White Flag trades that amounted to virtually nothing.

See stats proved me wrong. Like I said, I don't follow other teams prospects that well, just listed some of the big names.

I think the 3,000 hits is a stretch, but the homers are definitely in range. 4 years with 200 hits(actually needs more than that) is a lot to ask, especially since it seems his over .300 days are over. I think he's a HoF anyways, but the 500 should lock it up.

He'd be my choice if we are going to make a move. He's a good fill in for Maggs and it won't break my heart if we bench him if/when Frank/Maggs come back. He's the kind of guy I think we need to add instead of a Beltran/Walker type player if we add an outfielder. If we got Cattalanato or Kendall, I'd be very happy.

Not a bad list, but some suggestions for pitchers. I'll admit I don't follow other teams' stats that closely, but I gotta think Joe Blanton, Cole Hamels, Gavin Floyd, Edwin Jackson, Greg Miller, Adam Loewen, Scott Kazmir(I think I remember hearing he's a little off) and some of the Cubs studs(although I do know some of them aren't doing so hot) gotta be up there.

He was THE best hitter in baseball for a while there. He had awesome years from 91-97, another one in 2000, and another pretty good year last year. If a guy that hit .300 with 40 homers 4 times(would have been 5 if not for the 94 strike, he finished with 38 in only 113 games!), and had 100 RBI or more in 10 seasons doesn't get in, something is wrong. Of course the All-Time hits leader and a .356 career hitter aren't in. P.S. "Shoeless Joe" got screwed!

Can we please stop with the "Judy" stuff? It's really getting old. Can we just please say he's inconsistent or that he sucks ass instead of referring to him as an actess that happens to have the same last name? I agree we need him to have a good start, but come up with something new.

Not even close. He played 3rd for Winston-Salem tonight.

A couple of things. First: Beltran is almost a lock to hit free agency. I've read in a couple of places that the only way he will sign an extension is if he gets an idustry-changing deal, something STARTING in the neighborhood of 6 years $100 mil. That's the main reason the Royals didn't get a whole lot of offers to start with. They were demanding several top level players for someone virtually every GM knew was gone. He has even less value now since there is less of the season left. He's a great player, but I don't think you give up guys currently on your MLB roster to get him. If we dealt Crede we either have to play Uribe(who has about 5 hits since May) everyday or find another player out there. We might be b****ing about his hitting, but he is a good defender and has had several hits in his last couple of games, maybe he's coming around. Plus, I think Beltran(or any outfielder of his stature) causes some problems down the road. Right now it looks good because you can move Rowand to right. But as soon as Frank or Maggs come back you have to start benching guys. In the end it would be almost like throwing Everett in Rowand in the deal since they won't be playing everyday. I know someone like Beltran can make a major impact, but we'd have to give up quite a bit for someone that will force us to make tough decisions later. Unless we get a catcher, I think the better answer is to get someone cheap that won't necessarily command a starting spot when Maggs/Frank comes back, like Cattalanato. Unless of course we could totally fleece them and get him for like Borchard, Munoz, and another minor leaguer not named Anderson or Sweeney(or Gonzalez, but we can't trade him yet anyways). Second: I would be shocked if we don't offer Maggs arbitration and get the draft picks for several reasons. First, we want to keep him, so I don't think we'll complain too much if we have to give him a bunch of money. We're trying to do that anyways. Second, neither the Sox nor Maggs have to accept it. He can decline, and once the Sox figure out what he would make they can decline.(Please correct me if someone who knows better finds an error) Also, he probably won't get $14 mil this year because of injuries and lower production(caused by the previous), and I really think we'll get an extension done, now that the injury is dropping his value. Third: Zito is not a free agent at the end of the year, he is locked up through 05 with a 7 mil team option for 06. They aren't really shopping him, people are speculating because he has fallen off a bit and the A's could use some other pieces.

There are always going to be cases where prospects for major leaguers get burned, but it goes the other way too. The Red Sox got Schilling for a bunch of guys that are amounting to nothing. The Sox gave up a bunch of crap for Colon. Look at deals like the A's acquiring Dye, or the Yankees getting Justice a while back. You also have to look at what the Red Sox gave up to get Pedro. They gave up two highly regarded young pitchers in Pavano and Armas several years ago. Pavano had done squat for several years until they dealt him to the Marlins, and Armas still hasn't done anything of import, while the Red Sox got one of the best pitchers in the league over the last few years. My big point is you got to trade these guys while they are worth something. You can't just deal them when you get impact players or when they have been given a chance and failed. There aren't a whole lot of chances for the former, and if you do the latter they have no trade value. You gotta try to evaluate these guys and figure out what they will do in the future, and if you don't see them doing much you trade them while you can. I really think Ring and Reed fall in this category. It looks like the Sox made a bad pick in taking a college reliever without great stuff over talented starters like Blanton and Brownlie. They were able to add a veteran player that could help their team. They apparently felt that he would be a lefty setup guy at best, so they let him go. I see the same thing in Reed. He's a guy that has limited tools. From most accounts he's not going to win a batting title, he's not going to hit a ton of homers, steal a ton of bases, or even play centerfield. But it looks like he was coming off a career year, making the hype ridiculous. It looks like the Sox have Lee and Rowand for a while(and potentially Maggs), with Anderson doing well and some other talented guys under him. A corner outfielder just doesn't have that much value right now for us. We have to deal with these guys while we can, otherwise we get stuck with a bunch of guys like Scott Ruffcorn, James Baldwin(yeah, he had a good half season but sucked otherwise, especially for his hype), Mike Caruso, Borchard, and Rauch that can't make an impact on the team but no longer have any value.

I gotta think we'll be able to resign Maggs now. I thought there was very little chance he would get his $15 mil for 5 years before, now I'm not sure anyone will even offer him a 5 year deal. Nothing has said that Maggs or Frank are out for the year. Even assuming they both hit the top of their estimated time frames, they'll be back sometime around Sept 20th, which would give them 2 weeks to get back in stride before the playoffs. I'm hoping we don't do something rash like give up a ton to get Finley or Delgado. I'd really like to see Kendall, but if we can't do that I want a decent cheap guy that won't neccesarily command a starting spot when the guys come back, someone like Cattalanato, otherwise we'd have to bench some guys when our people get back(probably Everett and the new guy :puke ). I'd also strongly consider bolstering our staff if we can get a stud like Johnson, Pavano or Penny(if the Marlins falter), or a bullpen guy like Mota. We'd be more prepared to absorb a drop in runs if we made a serious upgrade to our staff.

Well, Maggs isn't going anywhere. Even if we would trade him, teams aren't going to take a guy that is out at least 4 weeks. I don't think we would have to give up a whole lot to get Delgado anyways, Toronto is going to have to eat a ton of that money. He can hit a ton, but he is awfully inconsistent. He seems to alternate between hitting over .300 and hitting around .270, and this is a .270 year on the rotation(actually well under that now). He's really not having a good year(I took him in the second round of a fantasy draft ). However, a happy, cheaper Delgado can make a HUGE impact. I just don't know what we would do with him once some of our guys get healthy. If we got him, we'd have to either play Everett in RF or bench him right now, and once Thomas and/or Maggs get back we got all kinds of log jams. It might make sense to get him for the rest of the year and just talk Frank into sitting out the rest of the year as a precaution. As someone said, however, I'm not sure he'd accept the trade if we didn't give him an extension.

First off, Maggs is expected to be out 4-8 weeks. Even if Frank and Maggs both take the whole 8 weeks to get back, that would mean they would both be back shortly after September 20th, which would give them about 2 weeks to get back in the swing of things before the playoffs. That doesn't mean he's out for the year or that his career is over, although it is a problem. I highly doubt he's played his last game in a Sox uniform. Even if he ends up missing the rest of the year, he is going to be a lot more signable in the offseason because of it. Here's my plan of action if I am Kenny: 1) Call Arizona and try like hell to get Randy. This would increase our chances of winning regardless of run support. With Freddy and Buehrle as 2-3, we'd have one of the better staffs. Since there aren't a whole lot of impact bats out there, I think we should try to bolster our staff to counteract our offensive losses, but not with Benson-like players that may or may not be an upgrade. If we can't get Randy(or Pavano/Penny if they become available), then we should try to do it in the bullpen, with someone like Mota. 2) Jason Kendall. He solves a couple of problems. He gives us a better option behind the plate, and he gives us a top of the order guy. With the way Rowand and Lee have been hitting, putting someone like Kendall at the top could keep our offense solid, and then if/when Thomas/Ordonez come back, our O would be ridiculous. 3) Carlos Beltran. I'm not a big fan of adding an outfielder in this situation. It would help right now, but as soon as either player comes back, we create a major log jam. We would have to bench either Lee, Rowand, Maggs/Thomas(hopefully both will be back), Everett, or the new guy. For Beltran, however, I would deal with this. I guess part of this depends on your opinion on Everett, was he a stop-gap solution or is he a player we need to keep in the lineup everyday? I think he really helps our lineup and we need to keep him. If that doesn't work, a short term guy that is cheap and doesn't neccesarily command a starting spot, like Cattalanato gets my vote. I'm having trouble finding a whole lot of other guys like that, but I'm sure there are a couple of others. I think if we can get Kendall and Johnson/bullpen help, we'll stay on top and then dominate when/if we get our sluggers back. We really need at least one of them to make a deep playoff run.

Ugh, this is starting to sound too much like the Prior Watch. At least from what I've heard this is all precautionary. On the bright side maybe this will make him realize that no one is going to give him $15 mil a year in the offseason and resign.

I've got a couple of problems with that. One, we don't have Benson yet, and I doubt we will give up what they want. I just keep having Todd Ritchie nightmares, I really think they are too similar. Second, Zambrano and Clement have been more consistent the last couple years than Garcia and Buehrle. Garcia was pretty bad the last two years, he was in some kind of funk. He's pitching very well right now however. Buehrle had been in a gradual decline before this year, as another thread pointed out. His strikeout rate is up quite a bit, and he has hand numerous good starts. Admittedly, right now I wouldn't trade Garcia, Buehrle, and Garland for Zambrano, Clement, and Maddux, but that has more to do with other factors. Our three are signed for a few years, while Clement is a free agent, and Maddux is too old for my liking. But I'd really like to have Zambrano, and if Clement were signed long term I'd want him too. Edit- I take back what I said about Buehrle, he's been pretty good for most of his career. I actually looked at the statistics instead of trusting someone else. Guess I was blinded by my disappointment in his inconsisteny last year.

Come one now! Put down the crackpipe. I'm stopping this argument since you are ovbiously too biased to have a logical argument. Buehrle isn't even the best pitcher on the SOX staff in my opinion. The Yankees might be better than anyone in the NL, and maybe the A's(although I don't think so. Good pitching but only decent offense and bullpen). But I would much rather play the Red Sox or Angels than the Cardinals. Their offense is incredible, their stating pitching has been solid from top to bottom, and their pen has been pretty good. The Red Sox might win if they play in a playoff series because of Schilling and Pedro, but the rest of their rotation is godawful.

Not really. Even if you add a half run to the ERA and subract a strikeout from their rate they still have the lead. The difference between the two leagues isn't THAT great. Plus you have to remember that if you add numbers to compensate for the AL to NL you have to do it for Benson too. And with a healthy Prior and Wood it's a blowout. Please stop arguing. I hate praising the Cubs in any way, but even I have to admit that when everyone is healthy they have the best rotation in the league. To tell you the truth I would rather have Garland than Benson. His production is probably similar to what you can expect from Benson, and he doesn't have the arm problems. There is no way I give up something like Borchard and Anderson to get Benson, which is rumored to be what they are looking for,

You apparently don't understand the idea of comparing 1-3 starters. Our #1 starter is Garcia, our #2 is Buehrle. Because of injuries, their #1 is Zambrano, their #2 is Clement. Saying that Buehrle is better than their #5 starter doesn't really add anything to the argument. Yes, Buehrle is better than Maddux and a hurt Prior and Wood, but that doesn't really mean anything.

You need to stop drinking the Sox kool-aid. Do you even watch baseball? A comparison of the numbers: Garcia- 3.35 ERA 7.44 K/9 Zambrano- 2.81 ERA 8.28 K/9 Buehrle- 3.86 ERA 6.44 K/9 Clement- 3.12 ERA 9.37 K/9 Benson- 4.13 ERA 5.43 K/9 Maddux- 4.09 ERA 6.10 K/9 Don't make me look at last year, that's even worse. Considering these are their 3-4-5 starters when everyone is healthy, I think it's safe to say their rotation is better, much as it pains me. Zambrano is far from a flash in the pan, he is widely considered one of the best young pitchers in the game. Clement has some of the best stuff in the league, as his K rate shows. If he got any run support he would be among the leaders in wins. Maddux's ERA is better than 3 of our 5 starters, so the conclusion that he is done is an exaggeration. He's not as good as he was, but he can still pitch.