ZoomSlowik

Hot, I'm in pretty good shape despite some back picks. I still can't believe how poorly LSU played.

I'm kind of amazed that Jon is getting this much support. All I ever hear is how much of an overrated, underacheiving punk he is, and he is dead even with Soriano. I hate to give away pitching when we have had such problems at the end of the rotation, but I think this would be a sweet move. It gives us another slugger, and someone that can actually score from first on a double. I would think he would run as much as he once did on the Sox. He isn't the on base guy we need, but I still think that is a fairly sizeable upgrade if we move Uribe from 2nd to SS and lose Valentin. My only major problem would be his salary, I don't want him for anymore than like $7 mil because there are obvious holes in his game(D, OBP, lots of K's). I think the real comparison should be between Valentin and Soriano, since Valentin would probably be the odd man out if this trade happened. He's batting much better than Jose with just as much power(more in most years) and much more speed, plus they are about equal in terms of defensive ineptitude. What would be really interesting is if we could bring in a 3rd team to get some of the players we need(like a young SP and an OBP guy with some speed). I gotta believe that Garland doesn't have anywhere near the trade value Soriano does, which is why I think we gotta do this trade if it is out there, whether or not we keep him.

I thought I'd add some guys to the ACC list- FSU- Those guys you mentioned are very talented, thought I'd add a couple. Craphonso Thorpe had a very good year at receiver, but injured his knee late in the year. If he comes back 100%, he could be an interesting draft prospect, he's 6'2" and had very good speed before the injury. They've got a very strong line, led by two probable high picks in tackle Alex Barron and guard Ray Willis. The Bears could use both of them. Eric Moore also looks tough at DE. Miami- They're always loaded with pro level talent, and this year is no different. They have 3 gifted RB's in Frank Gore, Tyrone Moss, and Bobby Washington. Gore is an explosive Jr in the Willis McGahee mold that has had major injury problems. If he is 100%, he will be a major playmaker. Tyrone Moss(So.) is in a similar mold, although doesn't seem to be quite as explosive. Washington is a fast freshman that was one of the better recruits in the country. Ryan Moore is an interesting WR, he had a pretty good year last year, but has not yet played up to his talent level. Berlin is the QB for now(lots of talent, not much production), but Kyle Wright(RS Fr.) is the future, I believe he was a top 5 QB recruit 2 years ago. At line, Eric Winston is a monstrous tackle prospect. A converted TE, he has bulked up to a little over 300 and is very agile. He could be a top 5 pick. On defense, Orien Harris is a budding DT that should show his stuff now that Wilfolk has moved on. Another potential top pick is Antrell Rolle at corner. It looks like he has the potential to be a lockdown cover guy at the next level. Virginia- you covered their key players pretty well(god that is a good core of linebackers), I just wanted to mention Elton Brown. He is a very big, talented offensive guard. Chris Canty also is pretty good at DE, but he has to show that is is definitely over his past injury to be a solid pro pick(it was 2 years ago, but you know how the pros are). Clemson- The key guy is Charlie Whitehurst, he's a tall pocket passer that is coming off a pretty solid year. Airese Currie started the season strong at WR, and has ridiculous speed. Leroy Hill is a major playmaker at linebacker. Their entire secondary is pretty good, corners Justin Miller and Tye Hill, both have pretty good speed and cover ability. Safeties Jamaal Fudge and Travis Pugh both also have some ability. Maryland- A guy that stands out to me is Josh Allen, he really seems to have some big play ability. Shawne Merriman and D'Qwell Jackson are both pretty good at LB also. Virginia Tech- The Hokies really gave USC a scare, but looking at their roster it seems that it was more of potential issues for USC than Va Tech doing well. Bryan Randall at QB is decent but not spectacular. He can run or pass, but everyone was considerably more excited about Marcus Vick before he was suspended. I'd be shocked if George Bell doesn't win the starting job at some point, he is a very fast freshman runningback. Jim Davis looked impressive at end, he apparently missed last season with an injury. The big buzz on D is freshmen Xavier Adibi and Vince Hall. Both were very good recruits that should play early. Mikal Baaqee also appears solid. Eric Green also looked good at corner. NC State- I have to mention T.A. McClendon. I know it is pretty obvious, but he is a top RB when he is healthy. Andre Maddox is also pretty good at safety. Georgia Tech- P.J. Daniels is coming off a solid year at RB last year(almost 1500 yards, 10 TD, 5 yard average), and Reggie Ball has talent at QB(still needs to improve). James Butler can make plays at safety. Wake- They played pretty well against Clemson, but the only reason I can see for that is Chris Barclay, he had a really good game and looks like a stud.

Yeah, Morrelli is at PSU, but he is not likely to get a lot of playing time with those two guys already there. Thanks for the comment on my list, I might do some others if I have more time. I follow CFB pretty closely and read a lot of stuff, so I could probably come up with a Big 12 or SEC list. I don't really want to waste my effort on the Big East, and you could probably just look at USC's roster and find most of the future pro talent from the PAC 10(not counting Aaron Rodgers(CAL) of course).

Soriano isn't neccesarily the answer, but I think he might be able to bring us the answer. If we could get him for Garland, we could probably spin him off for some other players. Soriano has got to have more trade value than Garland. Huff would definitely be sweet if he could play third, that guy is a dangerous lefthanded hitter and gets Crede out of the lineup.

Come on Irish, now you're ragging on Chambers? Do you like anyone that's not on your roster or wearing a Vikings jersey? The guy had 963 yards last year, it's not like he missed by a lot, and he had 883 in his rookie year with only 6 starts. I know a lot of those numbers last year came in the Dallas game, but that is true with a lot of receivers. My gut feeling is he will get about 900 and 8 minimum, the guy has quite a bit of talent and they will probably throw the ball more without Williams in the lineup. They really only have 3 legit options in Chambers, Booker, and McMichael, and the other guys aren't exactly perennial 100 catch receivers. As for Bruce, I know you don't like him, but even in an off year he had 981 yards. Not a lot of receivers can say that. I kind of agree on Price, but it's not like he had a whole lot of help last year, with Vick missing most of the year and a weak receiving core around him. I've seen much worse #3 receivers. Wayne is serviceable as a backup, I'd be shocked if he got worse than 800 and 5, Manning is going to throw it too much for him to not get that, and every pass can't go to Harrison. They got a lot of weapons, but Wayne seems to be the next best option. Steel, you got some pretty good WR's, but expecting 10 TD's from any of them might be a bit of a stretch. We've gone through the Davis thing, but what the hell. How many backs really do anything against Tennessee? Not a lot, they had the number one run defense in the league last year. Tampa doesn't have that bad a run D either. Plus he only had 30 carries combined in those two games, so he would have really had to dominate to get 100. Think about it, to get 100 yards on 20 carries or less, you gotta average over 5 yards a pop. That's pretty tough. He had 6 games with 20 or more carries, and got 100 yards in 3 of them, and had 99 in another, and had 100 on 15 carries in one game. He seems like a decent #2 back to me, although there are better options. If he was the best RB available I'd certainly look to see if any of the stud receivers were there. The number of carries he gets may be an issue, as you mentioned earlier, Hollings will get carries. However, from what I read, Davis will still get about 15 carries a game, which is more than he had in 5 of his games last year, and he didn't play one of them early(I believe it was a coaches decision, but I am not 100% sure). He did have an inconsistent career at LSU, but he also had a couple of huge games. He's one of those 1 year wonders right now, but he produced fairly well last year, so who knows. I personally think he is okay but not stellar. He's one of the lowest rated backs I personally have any faith in. I'm gonna say it again, size has nothing to do with the frequency of a player's injuries. There are plenty of small guys that get hurt, there are plenty of big guys that get hurt, there are guys in between that get hurt. I know you brought it up with Westbrook too, but he's played 15 games both of his seasons, so that's pretty good. It's really a case by case basis. Nagging injuries happen to everyone in the league at some point, you gotta stay away from guys that either get them regularly or get major injuries. So far, Davis looks okay, I know he missed some at LSU, but he missed 1 last season that I know was due to injury. He's played only one year, so I don't really think any assumptions can be made.

Your team looks okay, those leagues with 2 starting QB's are interesting. I like them because it negates the high demand for runningbacks a bit. Just to wonder, was it a 12 team league? I'm not really seeing a guy I would have taken in the 3rd otherwise. You're right, the QB's are pretty good for a league with 2 starters. At RB Alexander is a stud, Brown is a pretty good sleeper, although I'm not a fan of using him as a #2 RB. Chad Johnson is a stud receiver, I'm not sure about the rest. I'd go with Clark pretty regularly at TE. He's a pretty good player, and Indy will throw the ball a lot. I'd stay away from any Cardinal not named Boldin(really liked him before he got hurt) or Fitzgerald.

I gotta say, I was impressed with Purdue today. Syracuse might not be great, but they have Walter Reyes, and he is a damn good runningback. I knew they would score in bunches, I didn't expect a shutout. I already had them fairly high in my Big Ten picks, but if they keep up the D I might have to bump them up a few spots.

I've been hear all along, and I'm an NU fan. As for Kansas, see you in a few weeks, and see U of I at the end of the year. I think we'll fair just fine in those.

Absolute last post, since it is coming down to opinions. Size with runningbacks has virtually nothing to do with their durability. Two of the best and most durable runningbacks of all time are Payton and Sanders, who were 5-10 200 and 5-8 203 respectively. For more recent examples, Portis is a stud that played every game is first year and missed two last year, and is 5-11 205. For a guy that scored 13 TD's with minimal touches last year and is now the feature back, I'll happily take a flier as my #2 back, and I in fact got him as my third in a few and am thrilled about that. As for Bennett, he has only been my number 2 when I was absolutely desperate, and I made sure to get another decent option. I like having that kind of homerun threat sitting on my bench. Actually if you look at it more of the big backs, like Bettis, Taylor, James, Lewis, George and McGahee have injury issues. You have problems with injuries, but you took Jones, who you said yourself had a few fluke injuries in his past, and Suggs, who had knee surgery and a few other nagging ones in college and in his limited pro time. You spend an awful lot of effort ripping a receiver that gets 100 yards and 7 TD's. Only 12 guys did that last season. That sounds pretty good for a second receiver to me. Walker is getting a lot of hype this year, but most of the publications I have seen have him barely in the top 20 much less top 15. I'd be wary of a guy that got the majority of his points on TD's, that 600 yards to 9 TD ratio is pretty high. I'd love to see a link backing your statement up. I'd also love to see the list that has Lelie above Bruce, as I have yet to see anything anywhere near that, and have had the opportunity to take Lelie several rounds later than Bruce in every draft. ESPN, one of the few rankings I trust, has Walker at #18, and Lelie at 24, with Bruce at 16. The Sporting News, another one I usually like, has Bruce at #19, Walker at 22, Lelie at 34, although these rankings are a little old(still have Boston in there, and Boldin is still pretty high). Plummer is a decidedly mediocre QB that has only thrown more TD's than picks once, and that happened to be last year, and his career high is 18 TD's. That's gonna make it hard for his receivers to kick ass. Lelie definitely has talent, but he could be a much bigger threat elsewhere and still needs to step up big time. As for the runningbacks, you can't just throw RB's 6-20 in a hat and mix them up. Do you realize there is a difference between 1200 yards and 1000? thats 20 points in most leagues without even factoring in the TD's that usually come with those numbers, and several of the backs in that bracket will do better than that. Duece will get 1300 for sure, and Taylor will beat that if he stays healthy(which he did the last two years). Plus the Edge and Barlow have a good shot to do that too, plus Dillon and possibly Rudi Johnson. There is almost no chance Jones, Brown or Suggs will hit 1200, and I would bet that. As for saying you wouldn't want to depend on Charles Rodgers or Brian Westbrook as your #1 back, I wouldn't either, which is why they are #2 or lower on every team I have them on. I never said either of them would be my number one guy, I said I'd rather have them than other players. Since these guys both go in the 3rd(actually later in several), I can still get a stud QB or WR in the second or third(whichever I don't take my second RB in), or if I get screwed on my draft postion take Moss in the 1st and take RB's in the next two. It's not like my receivers are scrubs when I get these guys, I still end up with at least one of my top 7(the 6 I said I had faith in and Coles, who I forgot about), end up with someone like Johnson, Bruce, or Rogers as my two, and then whoever I can get at 3. That has worked out just fine for some time now. As I said before, you seem to be drafting heavily on potential, and to have a really solid team you need some guys to step up big time, which is pretty risky. As for QB's, since when is 57 or 58 percent inaccurate? That's not that awful, a lot of guys do worse. And if he and any receivers worth a damn at any point in his career he'd have done better. Now he has Owens, which is a huge upgrade. I'll admit, after looking at it, Culpepper's completion numbers are much higher than I would have thought, but I still don't buy it. Come on now, just about every guy you mentioned on that list except Moss is pretty mediocre. Robinson had one great year many years ago when Cade McNown did nothing but throw him jump balls, and the only other guy with more than 450 yards or 4 TD's was Moe Williams, who isn't going to get as many chances. Having a bunch of mediocre options does not count as having a lot of weapons. Keep thinking that he's going to be fantasy football MVP, he will not outscore the top RB in most leagues, possibly in yours because of the 6 point TD's, but then he'll have to compete with Manning. There's a reason that not a single ranking system I have seen has Culpepper in the top 5, and most just barely have him in the top 10. You're right about that "couple of years", out of his 4 years of starting he has had two great ones, but in 2001 he got hurt and had 14 passing and 5 running TD's with 13 INT's, and in 2002 he may have scored 28 TD's, but those 23 picks hurt his value quite a bit. Good luck with that. I'm glad you have fun drafting that way and I wish you luck, I still think you messed up. Too bad some light criticism morphed into this.

I think he might really be starting to wear out his welcome. He really messed up last year waiting so long to get Maddux and Rodriguez signed, correct me if I am wrong but I think they had decent offers early and ended up settling for less. He is also the reason that two of the top players in the draft last year to slip. Weaver and Drew were both in pretty much every top 5 list and started slipping just before the draft because of Boras, and ended up at 12 and 15. That'd make my day to see him go away.

Interesting that you got Moss, Harrison, Davis, and Johnson. They're normally all gone by mid 3rd at the latest. Although when I did my Sporting News draft it was total mayhem. Their rankings sucked horribly, entirely based the number of points scored last year. Jon Kitna went in like the 4th round. I blew mine horribly, of course it didn't help that I had the last pick in a 12 team draft(FIRST 9 PICKS WERE RB's). For some reason I took Travis Henry with my wraparound pick, even though I knew there were others out there, should have grabbed Barlow, don't know what I was thinking. Was probably my weakest moment in fantasy football.

I thought I'd post a couple of teams I drafted with what I thought and see what everyone else thinks. Just to note, I drafted these a while ago before the preseason really got started. I'd have passed on a few of these guys and picked a couple of different players. 10 team leagues. This first one I kind of like, although I got a couple of problems. QB- Aaron Brooks, Brad Johnson HB- Ahman Green, Kevin Barlow, Kevin Jones WR- Chad Johnson, Andre Johnson, Amani Toomer, Keenan McCardell, Brandon Lloyd TE- Alge Crumpler, Marcus Pollard K- Olindo Mare D- Philly, Pittsburgh I really like my first 4 picks (Green, Barlow, and the two Johnsons), but some things didn't go my way late. I wanted McNair in the 5th, got Brooks. I tried to get a better backup, but it didn't work out. I also don't like my 3rd RB, although my first two are pretty durable. I probably would have grabbed someone like Jones or Brown(I'm pretty sure this was before they dealt George). I personally think between Toomer and McCardell one of them will be a decent 3rd. Obviously I don't think too highly of kickers or D. I liked this one a lot better before Boldin got hurt. QB- Favre, Green RB- McAllister, Taylor, Westbrook WR- Boldin, Chambers, Booker, Galloway TE- Heap, Witten K- Vinatieri D- Pitt, GB I like my depth and production at QB and RB. I figured I'd get by at WR with Boldin and Chambers, and pick up someone as a FA if I needed it(probably would at some point). Heap will at least help a little. D sucks again. I like this last one quite a bit. QB- Brady, Carr RB- Tomlinson, Westbrook, Rudi Johnson WR- TO, Darrell Jackson, Isaac Bruce, Lloyd TE- Pollard, Whitten K- Stover D- Miami, Pitt I got 3 pretty good RB(LT is a stud), and TO and Jackson are solid. Brady is a decent starter, although I would have liked a better backup. Obviously I still need to find another WR. The rest of this team looks decent too. Thoughts?

As I said, glad you feel good about your team. Personally I'd be very worried about my runningbacks and depth at WR. Why post your team if you can't take some criticisms? I wasn't the only one that pointed these things out, I just defended it more violently. If you can't see that you broke two of the golden rules of fantasy football by not taking a RB in either of the first two rounds and by having the same bye week for your top two picks, then whatever. I'm also not a big fan of having two of my key players on the same team because if they have a bad offensive game you're in trouble for the week. Even good offensive teams struggle on occasion. As for the players I mentioned, I like Bruce as a late 4th or 5th rounder because even if their QB sucks they're going to throw the ball a ton and teams will give a lot of attention to Holt. He's a solid 3 and a mediocre 2. Johnson has a ton of talent, he will be a star in the near future, although I'd take Ward over him despite a QB situation I dislike, or Mason. Obviously I'd grab TO or Chad Johnson if they slipped, I have occasionally been able to get these guys in the early 3rd. I'd personally take Andre Johnson over higher rated guys like Steve Smith and Joe Horn. I also like Charles Rodgers a round or two later. I wouldn't mind having him as my #1. There are only 6 wide receivers I have a ton of faith in(Moss, Holt, Harrison, Johnson, TO, and Ward), after that Mason and Johson are my preferred players, outside of that I tend to look for sleepers. WR's just don't win you games unless they have a career year like Moss last year or Harrison 2 years ago. I'd personally feel much better with Andre Johnson as my #1 receiver than with Thomas Jones as my #1 runningback, but obviously you don't. I have no idea why you like Walker and Lelie so much either. The Pack have way too many options for Walker to put up a ton of points, he just won't get as many throws as other similar guys. Lelie's QB is Plummer, enough said. I'd put both those guys as #3 options. Apparently you seem to be big on potential and dislike production, which I find interesting. I'd happily take Westbrook over anyone you got, he had 13 TD's last year while splitting carries and because of Buckhalter's injury he is now the feature back in what should be a solid offense. Bennett might get hurt a lot, but he is also a homerun threat in another powerhouse offense. I'd put him in the same range as guys like Jones, possibly a little higher because he has actually had a productive rushing year before, and plays in an offense that will move the ball easily. Besides, I can easily grab Smith late as insurance. I'd much rather take a guy that has produced something in the past, again, apparently you'd rather rely on potential. As for QB, I never said that Brooks is a running QB at all. Actually I've been getting Brady or McNair a lot, and not Brooks so much, I just threw out a decent but not stellar QB as an example. Personally I like McNair and NcNabb better than Culpepper when you factor in where you draft them. It's not like Culpepper didn't score those points because of a coaches decision(like most of the runningbacks I mentioned) he got hurt. That kind of thing happens with a running QB, and Culpepper runs as much as anyone. Personal opinions often factor into where players are drafted, and I have a lot more faith in McNair and McNabb as pure passers, whereas Culpepper seems to either throw it to Moss or run. Because of this, I don't think he is going to be anywhere near as consistent and could lose some numbers. Again, glad you like your team and good luck.

I'll do a Big Ten one, I think I know them pretty well: Illinois- They have two runningbacks with a ton of talent. E.B. Halsey is one of them and Pierre Thomas is the other. Both are sophmores that are a little on the small side(185 and 190), but have good speed, and Halsey is a pretty good receiver. Brock Bolen is another interesting player, a true freshman that is playing fullback. Obviously he has more appeal as a tailback, but he is a pretty good big back. Martin O'Donnell is a lineman that might have a future, although right now he is young and unproven. A few of their receivers have talent but none of them have done enough to merit mention as of yet. Matt Sinclair is the only intriguing defensive player right now, I'm not so sure about his speed for the next level but he is a productive player. Indiana- I honestly have nothing to say here. Iowa- Their offense is replacing a lot of guys, but their defense has some talent. Matt Roth is a potential difference maker at the next level. He may not be the most athletically gifted but he has good size, is tough, and is full of energy. Abdul Hodge and Chad Greenway are both solid linebackers that will make a ton of noise this year, both have pro potential. Michigan- Obviously they have a bunch. Their top 3 receivers all have huge potential. Braylon Edwards probably would have been a 1st round pick last year, and Jason Avant and Steve Breston are both very talented. David Baas is one of the best guards in the country(could be a high pick). Chad Henne started at QB today. He has a ton of talent and has a good chance of being a very high pick in a few years. They have numerous very good athletes on defense. LaMarr Woodley is only a sophmore, but looks like a future pro end. Pierre Woods is a big(6'5" 250) athletic outside linebacker with huge potential. Lawrence Reid also is solid, but he could be a little small for the pros and does not match Woods' potential. He's plenty good for college though. They also feature a very good secondary. Marlin Jackson is a gifted corner that should be a mid 1st rounder at the lastest, and Markus Curry will probably be drafted somewhere also. Ernest Shazor looks awesome at strong safety, and could turn out to be a stud pro. They have numerous other very talented young players in the secondary that could step up at some point. Michigan State- I don't see a whole lot of standouts here. Minnesota- They have two extremely gifted runningbacks in Marion Barber and Laurence Maroney. Both could be playing on Sundays. Jared Ellerson is a solid receiver(not sure about pro potential). On defense, Darell Reid has some talent, he has moved between tackle and end. Northwestern- I know these guys very well, so forgive me if I seem a little biased. They have two very good tackles on offense in Trai Essex and Zack Strief. Both are over 320 and have major pro potential. Trevor Rees is also pretty good at center, he has two year to build his stock before he is eligible for the draft. Loren Howard is a stud at defensive end. He's 6'4" 280 and is very strong. Unfortunately, there is a good chance that he will miss the entire season. With a good season he almost certainly would have been a first day pick if he went pro after this season. A guy I like a lot is Barry Coefield. He hasn't gotten a ton of playing time, but he seems pretty quick, even at 305 pounds. Look for him to establish himself at some point this year. Tim McGarigle is a ball hawking linebacker that just always seems to be making the hit. I'm not sure about pro potential. I think speed might be an issue, but I haven't seen a 40 time so who knows. Marvin Ward might be a draft sleeper or solid FA pickup. He has very good speed and has been a solid cover guy, plus he seems to be able to hit in run support. Dominique Price is a guy I really like but haven't heard much about. He's a saftey that is a monster hitter in run support and can create turnovers. My guess is his pass coverage is an issue, especially after the performance of the safeties against TCU(altough I think that was Heinz and Henderson more than him). Ohio State- They lost a bunch of guys and I personally think this looks like a 7-4 year, but it's OSU so of course they have pro caliber talent. A.J. Hawk is the big one, he is one of the top linebackers in the country. Anthony Schlegel and Mike D'Andrea also have the potential to be difference makers at linebacker. Dustin Fox is getting a lot of hype at corner, but I don't really buy it. Ted Ginn is an incredible recruit that could make an immediate impact at this position, he is a very good cover corner. Donte Whitner is a really fast safety that could really emerge. Justin Zwick has an awful lot of talent but has not had a chance yet. He could become a top level QB after he gets some game experience. Santonio Holmes is a physically gifted receiver that probably would have done more in his career if Krenzel was a more efficient passer. He is very dangerous. Penn State- Zak Mills and Michael Robinson are the two headed monster at QB. Mills is supposed to be the more efficient passer but did not perform well last year, while Michael Robinson is a dangerous runner with a somewhat suspect arm. Austin Scott is a stud freshman recruit and could make an impact early. Derek Wake continues the tradition at Linebacker U, the guy is just a stud. Purdue- They have some firepower on offense but a suspect D. Kyle Orton is one of the better returning QB's in the country and should put up huge numbers. Taylor Stubblefield has been a solid WR for several years now. Antwaun Rogers is a very good corner. Wisconsin- They have some holes, but they also have some really good players. Anthony Davis is back at runningback. He had some nagging injuries last year but was awesome the previous two years. Donovan Raiola could be their next pro lineman. Anttaj Hawthorne is a great defensive tackle that has major pro potential. Jim Loenhard is a great ballhawk at safety, but his height will hurt his pro future a bit. Scott Starks is a good corner, but may not quite be at a pro caliber.

Meh. Start talking when they actually play and beat a Division 1-A team again. As a side note, can anyone kick anymore? Huffman misses 5 field goals for NU, Rutgers' kicker missed his first two, Michigan missed two extra points, and OSU's guy missed 3 extra points. What the hell is up with that?

I'm not a fan of your QB's at all. Bulger had about as many TD's as INT's last year, which isn't a good sign. Also, Johnson just isn't as good as his numbers last season. I don't think I really need to comment on Plummer. Taking Lewis was a bit of a risk with his pending court case, I hope you didn't pass on Duece or Edge to take him. Great move grabbing Jones as your 3rd back. I'm kind of torn on your WR's, I like Jackson, and most of your guys have some talent, but Toomer will probably suffer with Warner/Manning as his QB. The other receivers aren't really proven, but I think one of them could step up. I'd grab a solid vet if the opportunity arises. Heap and Clark are nice TE's, trading one of them might eventually be an option. Bad move on the Chiefs D. You got some defensive players I really like. Lewis is a stud, and so is Peterson if he ever gets his but on the field. I'm not sure Colvin will start, but Briggs might make some noise playing next to Urlacher. I love Reed, he's a stud. Dawkins is a little old but might still pull out a good year. I like Brown, he's got the potential to create a lot of turnovers. Carter is interesting. He's got talent, but he's probably going to have a tougher time considering some of the guys that are going to play for the 49'ers. Doss might be a sleeper, not really sold on the rest of the D guys.

I don't have anything against Jones, Brown, and Suggs persay, I just think there are much better options, and I wouldn't feel too good if any two of those 3 were my starting RB's. Look at the post in the other thread comparing the last 3 years of Moss, Harrison, and Holt, it is actually pretty close. Moss had a career year last year, if you think he is going to get 1600 yards and outscore a lot of runningbacks, you got another thing coming. I'd rather take my team of something like Duece, Barlow or Holt, Bruce, Johnson, or someone like Bennett or Westbrook(not sure if they were there in the third for you, if they weren't something is wrong with that league), and Brooks late. That gives me a lot of scoring options, which is good so bye weeks or bad games don't hurt you. I said the scoring system won't matter that much because no matter what it is every quarterback will deal with the same thing. If it is weighted toward passing TD's, which that is, then Manning is a better pick. If it is running heavy, guy like McNair, McNabb, and Vick are going to be up there with Dante. Unless your league gives you 5 points a week for having a Viking, he's not going to grossly outscore every other QB. He'll score more than a lot of guys, but the points you gain there can easily be made up with the RB gap. There are going to be guys close to him scoringwise, I like how you ignored that Favre, Hassleback, and Green were right around McNair and can be had later than the 2nd round. Despite a poor year by McNabb and injuries to starting QB options like Pennington and Vick, he didn't create as big a gap as there is in runningbacks. You can say Culpepper would have outscored everyone last year if he played those two games, but the point is he didn't and there's no telling if he will score at that rate again, and if you really think Manning isn't going to be as solid as he was last year I really need to stop this argument. Everyone felt the same way about McNabb and his ten game masterpiece of a season two years ago. I'm glad you feel good about that team, but I wouldn't if I were you.

Manning outscored him in an awful lot of leagues last year. Part of it depends on whether passing TD's are worth 6 or 4(Culpepper might be a little stronger in the 4 leagues) and how much of a bias there is toward rushing/receiving yards over passing yards. Personally I'd rather take Manning up there because he is a bit more consistent, although I prefer to take my RB's early, and then decide when to take my QB based on what receivers are there. You can find guys that don't score that many fewer points later in the draft.

Okay, I lied. Dude, the rules of the league don't matter that much when comparing players at the same position since everyone plays under the same standards. If rushing yards are ridiculously slanted that's one thing, but they aren't. That's actually a pretty standard scoring system, it is the same as what is in yahoo. Here are the number of points scored by Culpepper, Brooks and McNair last year under that scoring system. Culpepper- 219 McNair- 207(guess he's not exactly head and shoulders above, huh?, Favre, Hassleback and Green were in this range too, at 207, 207, and 204) Brooks- 181 Culpepper did miss two games, so that helps a bit, but assuming average outings both times, that would come out to around 240. Virtually every starting fantasy QB had 170. Compared to RB's, there were only 7 that got over 160 points, and only 15 that broke 100 points, when you need at least 20 starters in a league. Tomlinson put up a healthy 204, while McAllister put up 133, despite a medicore touchdown year with 8. There was a 60 point difference between Duece and the number 25 back(which by the numbers is the top 3rd back), even with a bad year. All you need is about 3 more TD's(highly possible) and he moves into that elite area. With that many touches he is bound to score more. In order to make a fair comparison in fantasy football, you need to use the 13th rated QB, since numberwise that would be the best bench player, which is Donovan McNabb. He had a terrible year last season and still had 152. That's about a 70 point difference even counting a very good year from Culpepper and a subpar year for McNabb(he scored more points in 10 games the previous year). Also, Culpepper isn't that "consistent." He missed two games last year and 5 in 2001. His passing touchdown totals in his four years have been 33, 14, 18, and 25. His INT totals have been 16, 13, 23, and 11. His passing totals have been 3927, 2612, 3853, and 3479. Rushing is 470, 416, 609, and 422. Rushing TD's 7, 5, 10, and 4. There are some pretty big disparities in there. I would say that it is far from a lock that he will pass for 3500 and 25(even with running stats), which would be what you need to solidfy his draft spot. Manning would have made much more sense if that was your train of thought, barring injury those numbers are bare minimum for Peyton, who outscored Culpepper by 12 by the way. As for the runningbacks you mentioned, just about all of them are almost a lock to get 1000 and 8. Davis might be losing some carries, but he also only played 14 games and had fewer than 10 carries in 3 others. That won't happend again. Henry might split time some, but he is still going to get 20 touches a game, and McGahee is far from a certainty to make it through the season. Even if Henry loses 200 yards and 2 touchdowns(pretty drastic since he is in all likelyhood still going to get the bulk of the carries), he would outscore most RB's. Barlow played in all 16, but had fewer than 10 carries in 6 of them. He basically is the 49'er offense this year, he is going to get a ton of carries since their passing game looks mediocre. Stephen Davis is similar to Henry. He'll still get around 20 carries and a few throws a game. Carolina is going to rely heavily on the running game, so there will be plenty of carries to go around. Plus he is much more likely to get goal line carries due to his style, and Foster has had injury and production problems for a while now. As for Dillon, you take a guy that produced a ton on poor offensive teams and has been very durable for basically his entire career outside of last season(nothing huge, but lots of nagging injuries) and put him on a strong offensive team with a solid line and he will be fine. He should easily get 10 touchdowns even if he gets fewer carries than he should because of the scoring ability of the Patriots. Saying that Bellicheck won't give a running back the ball is asanine because he has not had anyone anywhere near the caliber of Dillon. On to the last part. There is a big dropoff from Faulk and Holmes to Jones in terms of production when they came into that offense. Holmes rushed for 1000 yards and 7 TD's with on fewer than 15 carries a game, and when Baltimore drastically cut his carries in 99 and 00(89 and 137 respectively), he still got over 500 each year, even averaging 5.7 YPC in 99. Faulk had at least 1000 yards and 6 TD's in 4 of his 5 years in Indy(doing much better than that in 2 of them) while adding an average of about 450 receiving yards in his first 4 years there and 900 yards in his last year before the trade. Jones hasn't even been able to secure a full time job yet(even on Arizona) and had an abysmal running average before he started showing signs of life on Tampa last year. Who knows if Thomas will steal carries or not. He has not really been on the field yet, but he has succeeded in the past, and if Jones has a couple of bad games they have a more capable second option than a lot of teams. Jones hasn't exactly run away with the starting job when he had chances before. The preseason numbers mean nothing to me, he played against 4 subpar defenses with several starter not playing, and didn't exactly put up a ton of points on the scoreboard. Brown looks like he has talent but is still unproven. He could be solid, but there's a chance he might not be able to handle the load. He's been decent but not stellar in his performances thus far. As for Suggs, just about anything you read says while he currently seems to have the starting job, there is no guarantee that he will be the feature back. Green has performed fairly well in the preseason(I don't put much stock in it, but you apparently do), and some articles I have read have gone as far as saying it will be a two back system. Either way, I'm not so sure they will produce in what should be a poor Browns O, since neither of these guys are of Pro Bowl caliber. As for the other guys, they may have talent but you are still depending on them to steal carries from highly regarded veterans. Faulk might be an injury risk but Jackson isn't going to be a full time starter for the whole year, so you got basically a worthless player until Faulk gets hurt and after he gets back. Plus you are depending on George to break down, which he just doesn't do. He is always going to be the type of guy that will get tough yards and stay on the field, plus he is the kind of pounder that Parcells likes. Jones will get carries but likely won't be getting 25 touches at any time. Clearly they don't have a ton of faith in Jones if they went out and got George. I highly doubt you are going to find 3 1000 yard rushers in this group, and even if they hit that doesn't mean they will produce like an Edgerrin James, Fred Taylor, or Duece McAllister. I'd have drafted much differently than you did, so the situation wouldn't be Moss, Dillon, and Brooks instead of Moss, Culpepper, and Jones(I wouldn't worry about that situation much anyways). First off I'd be able to get better alternate receivers because I wouldn't have to take Brooks, McNair, or Brady until probably the 5th, meaning I might be able to add someone like Andre Johnson or Isaac Bruce(or someone along those lines) in the 4th(or taking Brown/Jones/whatever other sleeper). Second I've done about about 8 drafts this year(most of them ten team, 2 twelve) and the earliest I have ever seen Jones or Brown go was the 4th, so I actually probably would have grabbed a receiver in the 3rd(not a fan of Horn, but some guys around him are solid) and then waited to get some of those RB's. In the end I probably would have grabbed Duece at 6, Barlow or Dillon in the second, and then drafted my receivers in rounds 3 and 4, grabbing one of the other QB's in the 5th(or 4th if I had to), then I could still grab some sleepers at RB. I'd be doing just fine with that route, and I have in the past. I'd be just fine with Duece as my #1 back, and getting him in the first gives me a lot more flexibility in the rest of my draft. I could just as easily go Duece and Holt or Harrison, which I would rather have than Barlow and Moss and seems to have less risk. Moss might have that monster season, but he is at least as likely to slip a little as to repeat those numbers. Last year was the first time he had more than 1450 yards, and his touchdown numbers for his career are 17, 11, 15, 10, 7, and 17. I had him two years ago and I was rather pissed off. He'd put up a bunch of 3 or 4 point weeks with an 18 pointer mixed in, and that inconsistency killed me. Running backs seem to do that less often, especially studs. You better hope he has one of those 15 or 17 TD years, because running backs in general have more total yardage(meaning more points), and a scoring year like that is the only way he can make up that difference. Bye the way, have fun that week that Culpepper and Moss have a bye week. Good luck.

Steel, very impressive, but I would be very curious to know how many teams are in that league, you got some good depth all around.

Love the sig man! I'm gonna have fun this year. I'm a big NU fan(would be there if not for the acceptance committee) who happens to be going to school at Illinois. I plan on giving people crap all season(at least until basketball starts).

I will not argue with that in any way shape or form. They should dominate the Big Ten.

Yeah, but it was still a split. When you have to decide between 3 8-3 teams, s*** happens.

Irish, I can't say that any of the runningbacks you took are a lock to get 1000 yards. Jones has a history of underachieving and his career high was about 700 last year, plus there is a chance that A-Train steals some carries if he ever gets off his ass. Brown has never been a starter before and god knows what they are going to do with that, especially since McNair is clearly the focus of that offense. Lee Suggs has skill, but who knows, the Browns seem to have an attachment to William Green, if he gets his s*** together he might not even start, much less do anything on that crappy offense. You obviously put way to much stock in what happens in the first quarter or so of a preseason game if you really thing that a guy who rushed for 1600 yards last year is not significantly better than a guy who wasn't even a full time starter. If you are saying that the fullback is such a big issue for Duece, how about the entire Bears line? Kruetz and Tait are fine, but the rest are either hurt or not so hot. Taking a QB in the first 2 rounds is just lunacy, especially if you pass on virtually any good running back. Culpepper is simply not going to score signifcantly more points than guys like Brooks or McNair, who get drafted much later, whereas someone like Dillon could make a huge impact compared to whatever other guys are there in the next round. I'm laying off of this after this post, since it is obviously an uphill climb. Feel free to ignore the advice of a guy that wins at least 2 leagues out of 8 every year and do what you want. PS- I usually got Ahman Green in the late first to early second last year, somewhere between picks 10 and 15.