i waited and waited before i made this post.

 

is loaiza overrated????

i waited and waited before i made this post.

 

is loaiza overrated????

If he still had the same velocity he would be the same pitcher i feel because he would still be pitching inside.

Yes -- He didn't even pitch THAT well in the second half last season.

Everyone saw this coming this year. Like cheat said, he didn't pitch all that great the second half last year.

Yes -- He didn't even pitch THAT well in the second half last season.

lets look at his stats, only once did he ever put up numbers that will put him up with the studs, that was last yr.

 

overall his numbers were always a avg pitcher at best.

Did he really pitch that bad today. He got in some jams early, but in general he didn't do too bad.

 

The one thing that pisses me off on Elo is he isn't throwing his changeup or slider. He's predominately a fastball/cutter pitcher and guys are getting really comfortable since he's usually near the plate.

 

I don't get it, someone has to freaking drill him to get it in his head to go inside and use the changeup and stuff. I know Manuel used to always ask him after every game how many times he threw the change. Don't know if he did it all season, but I know he did it in spring and then early in the regular season.

 

Also, remember, Elo has been battling some troubles with his arm, supposedly. It could be whats effecting his velocity. I didn't like the fact he threw 121 today though. He's been worked really freaking hard.

I agree I think this could all have been avoided had he been pulled after the fifth inning.

The guy was already shaky and i'd of much rather that Politte, Marte, and Shingo got some work in because it would of meant a White Sox victory.

Did he really pitch that bad today.  He got in some jams early, but in general he didn't do too bad. 

 

The one thing that pisses me off on Elo is he isn't throwing his changeup or slider.  He's predominately a fastball/cutter pitcher and guys are getting really comfortable since he's usually near the plate. 

 

I don't get it, someone has to freaking drill him to get it in his head to go inside and use the changeup and stuff.  I know Manuel used to always ask him after every game how many times he threw the change.  Don't know if he did it all season, but I know he did it in spring and then early in the regular season. 

 

Also, remember, Elo has been battling some troubles with his arm, supposedly.  It could be whats effecting his velocity.  I didn't like the fact he threw 121 today though.  He's been worked really freaking hard.

He pitched okay today. He was ahead in the count pretty regularly today, which he hasn't done much recently. However, he still threw some bad pitches, especially with two strikes. The Dye double and the Crosby homer were with two strikes, and I think Dye's other double was with two strikes also. He really needed to get out of the 6th inning with the lead, and he failed at that miserably. For someone trying to get a decent sized contract next year, he's really pitching poorly. I agree with you on his pitch selection, I don't see a lot of breaking balls of any kind.

You guys are right, he didn't pitch THAT bad today.....the thing thats bothering us is that he gives up runs right after the offense scores for him.

You guys are right, he didn't pitch THAT bad today.....the thing thats bothering us is that he gives up runs right after the offense scores for him.

Thats been killing me all year. If their is one thing I hate as much as walks (by Sox pitchers) its when a team goes out and scores run and then your starter goes right back and lets the team right back in it.

 

To me nothing is bigger then the starter going right back out their and shutting down the team. Elo hasn't done that at all this year. Thanks Cheat for pointing that out. I noticed it, but didn't realize it was that dramatic.

Another Thread stating the same thing.... :headshake

Yes, Loaiza of 2003 was a fluke. We generally all felt that was the case, too. Even with him being a fluke last year, his 2004 performance has been disappointing. We have rarely seen '03 quality out of ELo, though I thought it would happen occasionally. It hasn't. He's been generally mediocre.

Another Thread stating the same thing.... :headshake

 

i didn't know you were the board counter????

 

 

fyi, i didn't know which was first or not, i didn't even know of the other one whn i made my post.

 

Yes, Loaiza of 2003 was a fluke.  We generally all felt that was the case, too.  Even with him being a fluke last year, his 2004 performance has been disappointing.  We have rarely seen '03 quality out of ELo, though I thought it would happen occasionally.  It hasn't. He's been generally mediocre.

so this love affair for him should be somewhat tone down???

 

i mean even before last yr, he was medicore at best.

If anybody signs him this winter to a 4 year contract, they'll be real unhappy by the middle of the second year. He's gonna be selling the fact that he's a two time All Star, and hope it fools somebody. He's not horses***, he's just average, sometimes a little better, sometimes a lot worse.

I'm gonna get slammed for saying this, but I hope Elo is someone else's problem next year.

 

Hello Bartolo Colon?

I'm gonna get slammed for saying this, but I hope Elo is someone else's problem next year.

 

Hello Bartolo Colon?

Espesially with the money is was alluding to. I have no interest in ELo in 2005 at anything over $4 mil a year.

I expected Mark and Estaban to combine for about the same number of wins as last year. Mark moving back up and Elo dropping to the 14-15 range. I really expected a 20 win season for Buerhle.

21 wins with that ERA he had last year would b the most amazing fluke in the history of the MLB. He and Derek Lowe I believe in 2002 would have the 2 biggest fluke years for SPs that I can ever remember. I remember Pete Schourek in 1995 and thinking that was a fluke, but his numbers arent even close to what Loaiza and Lowe have done. Also Lowes ks were not even close to Loaiza's. If that was a fluke it was, in my opinion, the biggest fluke season for any SP in the history of the MLB. Just my opinion.

Maybe it's just me, but i have more confidence in Jon Garland right now than i do in ELo...especially if Jon can avoid the one bad inning

I was just happy that after the game Darren Jackson put the blame on E-Lo for yesterday's loss.... He basically said against this A's offense and against Mulder the offense getting you three runs has to be enough

Maybe it's just me, but i have more confidence in Jon Garland right now than i do in ELo...especially if Jon can avoid the one bad inning

Add me to that list too, So you ain't alone.

21 wins with that ERA he had last year would b the most amazing fluke  in the history of the MLB. He and Derek Lowe I believe in 2002 would have the 2 biggest fluke years for SPs that I can ever remember. I remember Pete Schourek in 1995 and thinking that was a fluke, but his numbers arent even close to what Loaiza and Lowe have done. Also Lowes ks were not even close to Loaiza's. If that was a fluke it was, in my opinion, the biggest fluke season for any SP in the history of the MLB. Just my opinion.

I don't know, what about Fernando Valenzueza and Mark Fidrich(sorry if I spelled them wrong)? I don't have their stats in front of me, but I remember they were both overnight sensations that were great for a year or two and then faded back into obscurity.

here's all you need to know about Loaiza's numbers.

 

2003 2004

Ground Balls/Fly Balls 1.44 1.03

K/9 Innings 8.23 5.22

K/BB 3.70 1.85

Opponents Avg .233 .281

WHIP 1.11 1.42

 

Going into the Playoffs I'd put him as #4 on the Depth Chart.

I don't know, what about Fernando Valenzueza and Mark Fidrich(sorry if I spelled them wrong)? I don't have their stats in front of me, but I remember they were both overnight sensations that were great for a year or two and then faded back into obscurity.

Valenzuela was solid until 1991

 

Fidrych tore his shoulder after his rookie season