Kalapse

QUOTE(LVSoxFan @ Mar 26, 2007 -> 02:18 PM) FWIW, from whitesox.com "If you don't want to get hurt in baseball, I'll be sitting with you in the pressbox," said Guillen, who mentioned getting Hall at-bats and a little work at first base was discussed during the morning staff meeting. "The only way to keep him sharp is to play him every other day and find him some at-bats." "I love it over there," added Hall, who listed Sunday's injury as a subluxation, or partial dislocation, of his right shoulder. "I was anticipating a play like that anyways. I happened to land wrong." So why didn't he just leave Hall at catcher rather than move him to 1B? Did Wiki really need a few innings behind the plate?

QUOTE(watchtower41 @ Mar 26, 2007 -> 02:18 PM) I love how 90% of this board is freaking out like the season is over with this injury, yet fail to remember we brought home the hardware with Chris F'n Widger as our back-up. Yes, the same Chris Widger that wins MVPs of the 16" softball tournaments across the country. Ease up kiddies, we could have much bigger problems on our plate right now. Take Minnesota for instance, deciding who to make thier #3 (let alone #5) Sidney Ponson or Ramon Ortiz. A classic win-win situation. I love the condescending tone of your post, if you don't think the loss of a legit backup catcher is pretty big loss then I'm not sure you're following this team all that closely. Using Widger and '05 as some sort of evidence that the Sox don't need a guy to spare AJ every now and then is so ludicrous that I chose to not even address it. And you do know Widger his .296 in '05 right? If anything you just proved how valuable Hall could have been. QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 26, 2007 -> 02:19 PM) So...aside from Alomar and Widger...does anyone have any other ideas for someone who might be available? Javy Lopez did just come to mind, I believe he was released by the Rockies. He was able to put up a .270 .293 .404 .697 against lefties last year. He's not really a catcher though. I suppose that could work, that was one of the names mentioned last season before they dealt for Alomar.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 26, 2007 -> 02:15 PM) Hall Erstad vs lefties last year: .192. Last three years: .238. Again, like Mack, not the comparison to make. Against LHP, if Thome sits, Hall or Perez were the best bench options available for 1B. And Perez was not yet on the 25 (though he may be now). EDIT: HA! I meant Erstad against lefties. I'll take my chances with Erstad playing 1B and hitting 9th if they find the need to give Thome a day off and Konerko a little rest at DH. Outside of that I'm content with Thome facing lefties unless Perez makes the 25 man roster. I never liked the idea of Hall doing anything outside of his normal backup catcher duties. I said all this when they signed the guy.

QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 26, 2007 -> 02:13 PM) Look, I'm not ready to crucify Ozzie for what happened. It was a freak injury. I'm more annoyed with the fact that Hall was put at 1B when there was no reason for him to still be playing. The fact that he was an above average back-up, and now will be replaced by a mediocre back-up, hurts this team a lot. Of course, we still have injury prone starters hitting in the 8th and 9th inning of Spring Training games busting their ass down the line. Hopefully the vibe gets better once the season starts. There, these are basically my feelings as well.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 26, 2007 -> 01:59 PM) Even that puts his deal at closer to $140 million than $120 million (20 mil a year). He's currently guaranteed $108M. If he gets 6 years $20M like I said that would put him at $120M + ~$10M signing bonus (similar to what BJ Ryan just got) and then perhaps a bit of guaranteed money on a 7th year buyout and we're looking at about $30M more in ARod's pocket.

QUOTE(GoSox05 @ Mar 26, 2007 -> 02:08 PM) Because we don't have a 100 % back up first baseman. I think it was worth giving Hall a look at. It sucks he got hurt but im not blaming anyone for it. I'm sure hes not either. DARIN ERSTAD, isn't that one of the reasons they brought him in? He's supposed to be Gload except capable of playing the OF as well.

QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Mar 26, 2007 -> 02:03 PM) We got like 4 deep b4 Hall at 1st base. Paulie, Mack, Perez, Ozuna. I dont know why Toby ever would have needed to play 1st base. Erstad should be second actually.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 26, 2007 -> 01:57 PM) And to answer your question, because it makes for piss poor discussion when every single problem with an organziation is blamed pretty much on one person. Yeah bulls***. If you really think I disagree with every move Guillen has made then you're not reading my posts. I just commended Ozzie for picking Danks as the 5th starter but no, that's completely overlooked right? Yeah I thought so.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 26, 2007 -> 01:51 PM) That's f***ing great. Now we lose one of the upgrades we got this offseason, AND we get to listen to people blame Ozzie to make themselves feel better. How dare he play Hall at a position less risky than catcher to get some time on the field. That bastard. It has nothing to do with making myself feel better, why can't you just accept that some people are going to disagree with the moves that Ozzie makes? Especially those as disastrous as this one. I still don't see the upside in playing your incredibly important backup catcher at a position he has no experience at for a few innings and yes 1B is a much more dangerous position for a guy like Hall than catcher.

QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Mar 26, 2007 -> 01:49 PM) What exactly is Makowiak's role on this team? Best bat off the bench and second best outfield arm on the team. Oh and emergency catcher.

This whole thing is completely and utterly f***ed.

Welcome back Sandy, these past 6 months have been hell without you.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Mar 26, 2007 -> 01:15 PM) Moneywise, I don't see that happening. He would have to believe that 4 years down the line he won't be able to get a salary of $11 mil per year. Even an aging, slower ARod should do better than that (especially with the overall salary inflation that'll happen over 4 years). The best bet of ARod opting out is if he's just sick of the questioning he gets in NY. Like I said, if ARod could rid himself of New York and add $30M guaranteed dollars and 2 years onto his deal I don't see why he wouldn't do it. This is the same guy who was ready to take a pay cut just to get out of Texas.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 26, 2007 -> 12:59 PM) Rodriguez will get way more than $20 million a year, or he won't opt out of his deal. The thing with Borass is his guys for the highest per year average to set the curve for his other players. He has got to be near $30 million or he isn't going anywhere. A-Rod has $108M over 4 years remaining on his deal, if he could opt out now and get about $130M over 6 years (with a $10M signing bonus and possible option year) he's going to take that deal. The days of position players receiving deals of $21M+ are over for at least the immediate future, I could see him getting $20M per tops and with Boras he'd probably get it. If A-Rod can get out of New York and guarantee himself $30M and 2 years more than what he's got now, I don't see why he wouldn't do it.

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Mar 26, 2007 -> 12:53 PM) Why is that? In case a huge fireball hits the field (but not the dugout)? Lets say a Ligue wanna be runs onto the field and starts gunning down Sox players, the first player he'd come in contact with is the firstbaseman. Do you really want to run the risk? That's what I thought.

Danks' best pitch during the Spring has been his change IMO. It's the pitch that sold me on him, he may not have it every day but when it's working for him he's close to unhittable.

QUOTE(LVSoxFan @ Mar 26, 2007 -> 12:04 PM) But hey: it wouldn't be opening day if the weather wasn't crap now would it? The year they won it all the weather on Opening Day was some of the best I've ever experienced in the city of Chicago, seemed like a good omen. Last year when they finished in 3rd place it was cold and rainy on Opening Day.

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Mar 26, 2007 -> 12:35 PM) Which would cost more? Which would produce more on the field? ARod Fields Sweeney or Crede Uribe Dye $20M over 6 years $380K $380K ------- $20.76M $11M over 5 years $5M over ? years $12M over 3-4 years ------- $28M Predicting production over several years with this bunch is nearly impossible, way too many intangibles.

I actually recommend going after Andruw Jones if you can get him a little later in the draft, he's a Boras client in his contract year and has 50 HR potential in the OF. Sounds good to me.

QUOTE(LVSoxFan @ Mar 26, 2007 -> 11:25 AM) Thomas? Big Frank could get injured playing foosball. C'mon! You asked for an example and that's what you got, it was almost the exact same play as Hall too (different injury) but it goes to show that it's not all that hard to get injured at even the easiest defensive positions. Carlos Delgado was also injured while playing the position but I guess he's just injury prone as well.

QUOTE(LVSoxFan @ Mar 26, 2007 -> 11:14 AM) When do you ever see a guy getting hurt playing first base. The greatest player in Sox history as well as the new starting CF for the team. You always run the risk of injury when you move a player to an unfamiliar position, no matter how easy the position may be.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 26, 2007 -> 07:32 AM) If you think Ozzie was OK playing Hall at 1B, apparently its because you defend everything Ozzie does. And if you think Ozzie caused the injury, apparently, its because you just hate Ozzie. You've gotta love the dismissive mode of argument - if you disagree with me, you must be dumb. I personally see no issue with playing Hall at first. Its less risky than C anyway, the staff don't know him well yet, and Ozzie has always used ST as a way to see what people can do if needed. And given how strong Hall can be against lefties, I'd bet we'll see him at 1B a few times this season (with PK at DH). The argument that this is somehow Ozzie's fault is missing the point of spring training I think. I'm willing to bet you right now that Toby Hall doesn't get a single at bat at 1B this season, there is absolutely no reason for it. If Hall does start a game at 1B that means both of your catchers are playing in the game at the same time, something no manager likes to do especially since Hall has NO experience at that position. I can't think of a single good reason for Hall to be playing first, he won't be there during the regular season and it's an unfamiliar position to him, why even risk putting key player at a new position at the end of a late March game? If you want to see what he can do for you at 1B then have him start a B game at the position.

QUOTE(rangercal @ Mar 26, 2007 -> 12:21 AM) Go drink some of your alcohol alternatives. Listerine is a perfectly acceptable alternative to mainstream liquors.

QUOTE(rangercal @ Mar 26, 2007 -> 12:17 AM) More news and discussion less whining. Go draw a bath.

QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 25, 2007 -> 11:10 PM) I think it was stupid to play an integral member of the team at a position he's not familiar with. Hell, I got nervous when he had a very awkward stretch in the 6th inning on the first play he was over at 1B. However, it's pointless in getting into this argument with certain people here, because they'll defend Ozzie no matter what. Hence why I'm going to state my piece and will not be discussing this any further, it's just not worth it. There was NO reason for a key part of this team to be playing an unfamiliar position in the 8th inning of a late March ballgame. Hall will not be playing any 1B this season, why the hell would he be out there now? Wiki was behind the plate at the time, why was Hall moved from catcher to 1B late? It was a foolish move and it looks like it could cost the team. QUOTE(rangercal @ Mar 25, 2007 -> 11:35 PM) Kalapse....14,730 posts Ozzie Guillen.....1 World Series Ring Fans managing the white sox from a message board.... Priceless. Then what the hell is the point of even having a message board if you're not going to play arm chair manager/GM? Just wondering what you think the point of this places existence is?